77 réponses à ce sujet

[Recidiva]

Taerda wrote...

Idon't get why people like Jowan. Even after doing the Mage origin, I just end up wanting to kill him while he is in the cell. It just seems simpler and less dangerous that way

In my mage origin I was horrified by the way the circle functioned and the idea of becoming Tranquil.  I wanted to help Jowan and I could entirely understand why he'd resort to blood magic to protect Lily.  I was even angry at her for encouraging him to be an outlaw and then abandoning him when he was one - in her defense, no less.  He didn't do anything but knock people back.  And we'd just slaughtered hallways of people.  I wanted to find my own phylactery so bad and run like hell, just like he was doing.

Jowan was just a weak, powerless person trapped in a system set to crush weak, powerless people.

I still sympathize with him in every playthrough.  Though it's taken me a few to realize that the only way to save his life is to just let him go in the dungeons at Arl Eamon's.  The Arl will never let him go, no matter how high persuade is or how much you just saved his damn...holdings..life...wife and child, say.  Ass.

[Skellimancer]

He is a bad penny and as such i had him executed.

[Neil Decurio]

I don't think Jowan is all that bad. I'd do mostly anything for my loved one(s) too.

[MS3825]

I was willing to kill Arl Eamon after I just cured him to save Jowan. Call me loyal, if a bit evil when it comes to protecting my friends.

[Bhatair]

On my mage (my first character) I felt like I had betrayed Jowan in the beginning when I went to tell the First Enchanter about his little plan. As a result I felt responsible for the Arl's state and everything that happened in Redcliff. True enough it could have happened with or without Jowan present. I sent him back to the circle, I'm a little miffed that I never saw him again after that though.

[JosieJ]

rumination888 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

I wonder what must go through peoples mind to see someone that can poison the most powerful Arl in Fereldan as a "bumbling oaf".

There's no indication that the Emmon is the most powerful Arl. We're told he's well respected in the Landsmeet and that as his forces weren't at Ostigar, his army is at full strength. (The question of where they were while Redcliffe was swarmed by undead is left in the air.)

As far as we know, any bumbling oaf could have poisoned the Arl. We don't know what security is like at the castle. We don't know how frequent attempts on the Arl's life are. We don't know how much attention is put into things like preventing poisoning as opposed to holding off an attack.

In fact, all the spies and assassins we meet in the game come from outside Ferelden.

Eamon appears, along with the leaders of your allies, to battle the Archdemon in the final confrontation.
I'd consider an old man able to hold his own against an Archdemon to be a pretty good indicator of how powerful he is.

No matter how powerful he is, he's still vulnerable to poison.  If you contrast what Zevran tells you about Antiva with what you see about Ferelden as you travel about, you realize that Fereldans are very straightforward, and don't make assassination into a sport like Antivans do.  If they had, maybe Eamon would have been more cautious about attempts.  As it is, it takes no great brains or inventiveness to slip poison into something Eamon eats, and as a tutor to his only son, Jowan would have been in close proximity to the family and thus in an ideal position to do it.

[fkirenicus]

Ovietski wrote...

I hate Isode because she's an all around pompous ****** who thinks her son is worth 1000's of others lives. She is the one person in DA:O (except Loghain) that I actually loathe, i didn't know you could off her so i'm ganna half to pay a visit to redcliff with a new char. >: )

Haven't met with the amiable Arl Howe, I take it?

[Inakhia]

People really need to up their conversational skills. I had Brann Teagan of all people giving a verbal smack down to Isolde when she got all self righteous at poor Jowan.

;D

But yes, I think Jowan is a perfect example of someone who would die during the Joining. He doesn't have a strong enough will to live, let alone think more than 2 seconds into the fiuture.

[Aethos DKaari]

I was hoping for the option for Jowan to be like an advisor to the Arl when he asks you what to do with him

[Lotion Soronarr]

Korva wrote...

Then again, at least HE does regret his actions. That vapid, self-absorbed, hysterical Orlesian b* Isolde is the one whose head I want on a pike since she is at least as much to blame as Jowan, yet there is no word of regret or apology from her, never mind any consequences for her crimes. My noble warrior thoroughly loathes her as an example of what nobility should not be. Wish I could hand her to the Circle, or at least tell her exactly what I think of her ...

Something I plan to mod in....

[Nooneyouknow13]

The Angry One wrote...

If Jowan ever undertook the Joining he'd find some way to mess it up so badly, he ends up possessed by the Archdemon.

That's kind of the point though. and it would save you a hell of a lot of work.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Taritu wrote...

The Templars cause more problems than they solve, because some mages will try anything, do anything, to get out from under their thumb. (Not to mention that the Templars are wimps. The way they abandoned the tower made my mage completely contemptuous of Greagoir. "Big and tough when you're chopping down one apprentice, eh? But a wimp in a real fight. Fine, let me fix this for you.")

To be fair, that's hte games failing at balancing. I excepcted the abominations to be very difficult opponents
, but sadly, tehy are trotal wusses. I mena - WTF?
Al lthat talk about a single abomnations destroying entire villages and any one of my characters can take one out 1 on 1????
The tower is in need of some serious rebelancing. Buff the Abominations BIG TIME, and reduce theri numbers a bit.

[Walina]

Jowan was supposed to be one of your companions, said by M. Gaider hisself : http://social.biowar.../index/250603/4



David Gaider wrote...



It's interesting mainly because there was a time when Jowan WAS supposed to be a joinable party member. He initially was a temporary party member that you could take with you when you found him in Redcliffe, though he wouldn't leave the castle at any point. Later we decided to expand his role into a full party member, so you *could* take him out of the castle and then invoke the Right of Conscription when you spoke to Arl Eamon.



As such things go, we just didn't have the room to add another character onto the pile. So he had to be cut (the permanent part of him was never done, the temporary party member thing was cut later on). It might have been interesting to have a Blood Mage who was also reformed and trying to be a good person -- though maybe someone you could also lead down a darker path again very easily.



He'd have to have been rendered less whiny, though. Just saying.



Regardless, as a few people have pointed out the opening is still very much there for turning him into a party member. Go to, I say.



If what you're suggesting is that WE should do it, however, as in add another party member via DLC, then I wouldn't hold your breath. Shale was a pretty herculean feat, one made possible by way of the fact that we already had the VO recorded for many of the NPC's that were responding to it in the world, not to mention the fact that VO for other party members had not been recorded yet. Nothing's impossible, I suppose (and it's not my decision anyway), but I'm just telling you how it is.

[Emryc]

That Jowan is a cowardly lobster who attracts danger and sticky situations like an Archdemon attracts Grey Wardens is true.



But weak? He knocked out the Head Honcho of the Templars, the First Enchanter, a couple of 'normal' Templars and you.



I wouldn't call that weak. I'm sure he's no more fragile than Leliana.

[menasure]

Emryc wrote...

That Jowan is a cowardly lobster who attracts danger and sticky situations like an Archdemon attracts Grey Wardens is true.

But weak? He knocked out the Head Honcho of the Templars, the First Enchanter, a couple of 'normal' Templars and you.

I wouldn't call that weak. I'm sure he's no more fragile than Leliana.

well wrong or wright he is a douche bag when it comes to making choices or standing up for himself but he would be a great asset to my private army because he is probably also quite powerful with a good leader to command him. :innocent:

[Mnemnosyne]

Riona45 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I got the Arl to let the Circle take Jowan. What happens after that...well, I'm hoping they gave him a chance to redeem himself. However, I wonder if they didn't decide to Tranq him like they originally planned to do. Boy, I feel sorry for Jowan's girlfriend though.

I've played the mage origin, and in the end I felt way more sorry for Lily (the girlfriend) than I did for Jowan, although I did not regret trying to help him and Lily escape. 

I did not feel sorry for Lily at all, I wound up disliking her for her reaction.  I suppose I can understand it from the religiously indoctrinated, but it still made me glad she probably got executed.

Sure, he lied to her about it, but can you blame him, considering her reaction when she found out?  She turned her back on the person she claimed to love, and for what?  Some nonsense about blood magic being evil?  Hmph.

fkirenicus wrote...

Ovietski wrote...

I
hate Isode because she's an all around pompous ****** who thinks her son
is worth 1000's of others lives. She is the one person in DA:O (except
Loghain) that I actually loathe, i didn't know you could off her so i'm
ganna half to pay a visit to redcliff with a new char. >: )

Haven't met with the amiable Arl Howe, I take it? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Arl Howe doesn't see himself as being better than what he is, from my interactions with him.  Isolde justifies everything with her desire to "protect" her son - which is really more of a selfish desire to keep him close to herself, as well as not have the "humiliation" of a son born with magic.  That, in my eyes, makes her much, much worse than Howe, especially since everyone else remains sympathetic to her, and she recieves no punishment for her actions, which directly caused the deaths of hundreds of soldiers and townsfolk, and could have indirectly caused the destruction of all of Ferelden, had it not been for the deus ex machina availability of a miraculous cure for Arl Eamon.

[Pyro_Monkey]

KalosCast wrote...

I was also disappointed that you never got to invoke the right of conscription. I figured I'd get to save Jowan that way, or even Sten, but it's never an option. I suppose people might catch on when you don't actually know how to do the Joining ceremony.

kinda funny that you said that, on my most recent playthrough, I picked some different speech options when talking to the revered mother about taking Sten with me, and the option to invoke the right of conscription did come up (though she said it wasn't necessary).  But it is in the game, so all you people who claim it isn't are wrong.

Anyway, about Jowan, that blind templar in the alienage, wasn't he attacked by jowan when he escaped for the second time?

[The Ethereal Writer]

Very old topic but meh, I'll add something to this.



Honestly, I didn't hate Jowan. Sometimes he was annoying, but in the Mage Origin story he had some pretty funny dialogue. and how would you feel if you were going to be made an emotionless husk, especially when you're in love? granted of course he seriously f****d up his relationship with Lily, but all guys do that. You know, cut their palms and spew Blood at guys in armor knocking them to the ground. We all do that.



Anyway, I would've liked to recruit him, if not in Origins maybe in Awakening. He had potential, and all the work I put into redeeming his screwups, only to be told that he couldn't be released made me mad. So I end up sending him to the tower again, hoping that he wouldn't get executed. Like, that's how I see it. They're mad at him, aren't sure of what to do with him, Irving explains all the good stuff he's done, and they give him one, ONE, more chance. But if he's caught doing Blood Magic even a little bit, he's made tranquil and sent off to Rivain in nothing but his undies. with a scary lyrium-addled dwarf as his "buddy".



Alright, the Rivain trip is a joke (despite it being a good bit that might work), but everything up to Tranquil is how I view it. I wish the Bioware team could tell us his fate if he's sent to the Circle again. But I doubt it.....

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer wrote...

Alright, the Rivain trip is a joke (despite it being a good bit that might work), but everything up to Tranquil is how I view it. I wish the Bioware team could tell us his fate if he's sent to the Circle again. But I doubt it.....

I think he'd either be killed or made tranquil. The Chantry wouldn't allow anything else and they control the Circles, especially given how they don't even permit the Magi boon requested by the Hero of Ferelden.

[The Ethereal Writer]

wouldn't it be weird if Jowan was Anders' friend who was made Tranquil? Doubtful the developers would do that, but it would be a little bit funny. to me anyway

[Riloux]

Jowan was just always in the wrong place at the wrong time. Plus, he's a little bit of a ****.

[lost lupus]

if he gets ent back to the tower all that awaits is prison he's Malficar in the eyes of the templars tranquilty is not an option

he'll go to the mage prison with the torn veil and be tempted by demons day after day his reward for stand his groud and telling the demons no will be to remain there and be tempted again and again

but sould he give in the templars will drive a sword straight through his chest then pat themselves on the back knowing he was really evil all along this just proves it, pious wanks

you can save him though but it require you letting him go at the cell and thus killing conner (on the plus side you can still smack his mum then kill him) and then a side quest

i really think their should have been an option to kill conner and his mum? alistar will be distraught
the arl hey um look sorry about you wife and son but look on he bright side your alive we can end this blight

combined with
waking up the zevran just to tell him your about to kill him
killing sten in haven
distroying andrastes ashes (killing wynne and leliana in the process)
siding with logain thus killing alistar
and have logain top himself killing the archdemon!
MAWAHAHHHA thats an evil play through!

Modifié par lost lupus, 18 février 2011 - 05:43 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

haha I know how you can save him, but I always choose the redemption option. I just don't understand why he is given these chances to redeem himself and do right for all the wrongs he's done (or at least most of them), when all that awaits him is at best Tranquility (or worst. Your call people) and at worst (again, or best. Your call), the Templars would stab a sword of mercy through his heart.



It's like Recidiva said. There is no real justice in the Chantry and how the Circle operates. They rule out of fear because they've twisted Andraste's words to fit their own little warped idea of whats right and wrong, good and evil, gift and curse. The Maker gave them the magical abilities, yet apparently the Chantry doesn't see that. So the Tevinters misused their power. Big deal. Should one man be punished for his life for the sins of a different man? No. The Chantry operates through fear, and sadly most mages just take it. They bend over and take it. I for one am glad Anders is taking action, and if possible I'm burning the Chantry system to the ground. At first I admired the Chantry in the beginning, but learning more and more about it and what they did not only to mages, but to the "heathen" elves who only wanted to worship THEIR religion, my admiration turned to hatred. A hatred fueled by lies (which actually relates to me and Christianity). Now the Chantry is just sickening. I demand Justice! I demand VENGEANCE!



Downfall of the Chantry: The Inner Revolution shall begin on March 8.

[lost lupus]

dude thats all religion's lie's and power thats why countries with no seperation of church and state still top people for not following rules of a book written 700yrs ago

and in their defence even those countries with seperation still have stupid laws the difference is atleast you can bag out the stupid laws in a country thats not ruled by people who think that carpenters and merchants are just the bees knees

atleast in DA2 we can hopefull bring some anarchy MAGE anarchy

wait thats probbly how those religions got founded people dont like anarchy

Modifié par lost lupus, 18 février 2011 - 01:16 .

[The Ethereal Writer]

the sad part is America, even with the separation of church and state, is now trying to make Islam known to everyone because it's the "religion of the future". Texas teachers were teaching kids Muslim without the parents knowing, and when the parents found out.... well, you know how those Texans are.



I don't hate the idea of a black president. I just hate Obama. MLK would've been a better President. At least he was born in America. A lot of what Obama is doing is shady, at best. At worst, it's turning America into something we shouldn't be.



*sigh*....