301 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

celuloid wrote...

Why Council needs to do industrial espionage?
Isn't it difficult to create a cover of industrial tycoon each time he infiltrates new company? Spectres aren't usually at the same place too long, because they are few and crime is abound.
Why is he above the law when he rarely needs to transgress it? Why they don't just send a spy dedicated to infiltration (like Gianna Parasini)?

The FBI investigated international Price fixing on lysine. I did misspeak a bit... he investigates corporate crime, using methods associated with industrial espionage. Basically, the galaxy has trade laws. People violate these trade laws, essentially stealing trillions of credits from consumers and the government. Setna Yan investigates the most egregious of these crimes.

The gasses and tracking devices he uses are illegal (Liara mentions that her LotSB hacking device is illegal. Some tech is just as banned as the Cain). He needs to be above the law to use these resources. Also, he often freezes or drains bank accounts without a proper warrant or injunction... instead of a license to kill, he has a license to embezzle (well technically, all Spectres have both, and he has done both). If he finds out that a company is breaking galactic law, but it would be exceedingly difficult to prove, he can just destory them, or discredit them, or devalue their stock, or release their patents into the public domain.

Giana isn't allowed to just freeze all of someone's accounts, or ruin their credit rating, or put them on the Sex Offenders list so they get picked up the next time they enter council space. Setna Van can do all of those things.

He does kill on occasion, but usually with the aid of his gas. Once, unable to hack into a corporation's secure accounts, he simply arranged a meeting with the CEO, gassed him, and broke into the CEO's apartment to set up an apparent suicide. He forged a suicide note that made it seem like the CEO confessed to all his crimes. This didn't actually stand up in court, but the bad press was enough to make the entire company go under.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 08:12 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Konfined wrote...

celuloid wrote...


And what did he do that Council took interest in him?

And who was the Spectre who was assigned to him to assess his worth?

This is fun. I have an interview in a bit, and I'll come back and find the "Spectres are related to Special Tasks" citations if I can. They're all over the Wiki, but I need to see if I can find and quote the relevant Codex entries too.

Anyway.

He was assigned an Asari spectre who was a biotic/tech expert (essentially the asari version of a sentinel). Their first few missions actually investigated Volus colonial dealings with Mercenary groups in the Terminus system. While hiring merc groups to defend a colony is entirely legal, rumors were that the Volus were paying the blue suns to attack competing Asari concerns in council space, making the attacks look like random Batarian mercenary raids. Most of their investigation was done through running elaborate money traces and setting up "honey pot" Asari merchandise caches on the outskirts of citadel space. Embedded with illegal tracking devices, when the majority of this stolen armor made it back to the Volus colony in  question, the Asari had their trade licenses with the Citadel revoked due to a "clerical error" and Senta engineered a hostile takeover of the corporation by a shell company he controlled, restoring their trade licenses once the takeover was complete.

[Dean_the_Young]

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

Indeed, in the first game a non-tech expert Shepard is sorely limited unless he brings at least one tech-proficient person along.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

[Moiaussi]

Keep in mind that Shepard never underwent formal Spectre training. That probably should have been what they assigned Shep to between ME1 and 2 rather than geth hunting.

It would also have been a bettter explaination of how he could start ME2 with a fresh set of skills.

[Konfined]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Konfined wrote...

celuloid wrote...


And what did he do that Council took interest in him?

And who was the Spectre who was assigned to him to assess his worth?

This is fun. I have an interview in a bit, and I'll come back and find the "Spectres are related to Special Tasks" citations if I can. They're all over the Wiki, but I need to see if I can find and quote the relevant Codex entries too.

Anyway.

He was assigned an Asari spectre who was a biotic/tech expert (essentially the asari version of a sentinel). Their first few missions actually investigated Volus colonial dealings with Mercenary groups in the Terminus system. While hiring merc groups to defend a colony is entirely legal, rumors were that the Volus were paying the blue suns to attack competing Asari concerns in council space, making the attacks look like random Batarian mercenary raids. Most of their investigation was done through running elaborate money traces and setting up "honey pot" Asari merchandise caches on the outskirts of citadel space. Embedded with illegal tracking devices, when the majority of this stolen armor made it back to the Volus colony in  question, the Asari had their trade licenses with the Citadel revoked due to a "clerical error" and Senta engineered a hostile takeover of the corporation by a shell company he controlled, restoring their trade licenses once the takeover was complete.

These posts on your Volus Spectre were a very entertaining read and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter; and I mean that in a fully non sarcastic way.   With that said, while I admit that this volus would make a good exception, my overall opinion remains unchanged.  So I'm just going to agree to disagree and go back to lurking in this entertaining thread with the following: I still feel that Spectres need to either be or become combat proficient, if they expect to be fully effective at their jobs.

Modifié par Konfined, 16 mai 2011 - 09:22 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Konfined wrote...
These posts on your Volus Spectre were a very entertaining read and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter; and I mean that in a fully non sarcastic way.   With that said, while I admit that this volus would make a good exception, my overall opinion remains unchanged.  So I'm just going to agree to disagree and go back to lurking in this entertaining thread with the following: I still feel that Spectres need to either be or become combat proficient, if they expect to be fully effective at their jobs.

Kornfed, I do think this is an agree to agree situation. I would count what Setna is doing as "combat proficiency" (He has the ability to survive and win in many combat situations) but not being a combat expert. Especially if you propose that he has multiple combat drones, some of which work autonomously, and a sophisticated weaponized gas system. Yes that sounds hilarious... but it would be crazily effective for a Volus and smarter than anything involving projectiles.

I'd agree that 90% of of Spectres are at least as combat proficient as Mordin, Kasumi, or Tali. And yes, I picked the three people most likely to die during Hold The Line. I'd agree that probably 40-50% of Spectres are as combat proficient as Shepard. Still, there's that 10% of Spectres who fulfill very unique roles, like Setna, or someone similar to Kasum, or an Asari who poses as dancers in bars and listens in on conversations between criminals, sometimes following them home and using her biotics to kill them when they are naked and unprepared.

I think Mordin might be Spectre material, and Kasumi almost too. If Mordin had his current skillset and outlook ten years ago, he would have been a great Spectre. Kasumi needs more polish, more broadening of her skills away from just stealth and thievery, but I think that with a year of Spectre training she could make good. I think either of them would make a better Spectre candidate than, say, Zaeed or Grunt.

Also, if you want to subscribe to my newsletter... well... I do have a blog. It is about game design and Mass Effect and other things. But mostly Mass Effect. When I was hanging out with my old RL friends this week, they said "too much Mass Effect."

[Darkhour]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

Shepard can work alone as shown in Arrival (or when the squad AI decides to suicide itself).

Shepard does not NEED a squad.

[Darkhour]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

Indeed, in the first game a non-tech expert Shepard is sorely limited unless he brings at least one tech-proficient person along.

Limited? How?

A soldier is a beast and an adept is a god.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

Shepard can work alone as shown in Arrival (or when the squad AI decides to suicide itself).

Shepard does not NEED a squad.

True, but Kasumi can also work alone 99% of the time, or in a pair with a single remote hacker for backup (the equivalent of having a pilot for your dropship, in thievery terms.) She stole the friggin' Mona Lisa, for chrissakes. And in my mind Setna Yan can also work alone, and does so most of the time (Also, all this Volus Spectre Business? Did not even concieve of it prior to these posts. It's all straight off the top of my head.)

This is a game, so most operations you go on end in a firefight, because a firefight is this game's central mechanic. If it were a Monkey Island-style adventure game, most missions would end in a series of increasingly crazy puzzles and banter-offs. If it were a stealth game, most operations would go off without having to fire a single shot.

The missions we see for Spectres are the missions that Shepard is most qualified for. We don't see the ones that probably won't end in a firefight because Shepard would be absolute crap at those missions, so they send someone else.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Darkhour wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Spectre have to be  combat experts.

Kasumi is the best infiltrator around, but if caught she is dead.  That's why she brought Shepard.

A spectre getting killed in a gun fight against some random Blue Sun's schmucks would look bad. 

So... bring a Shepard-fighter. Like you said.

A spectre shouldn't need to bring someone else to feel safe. Spectres need to be able to work alone.

Unless your Shepard, apparently.

Not being a badass combat expert doesn't mean you aren't able to work alone.

Indeed, in the first game a non-tech expert Shepard is sorely limited unless he brings at least one tech-proficient person along.

Limited? How?

A soldier is a beast and an adept is a god.

Can't open chests, disable probes with nukes, collect insignias that are in locked chests, do anything about a lock anywhere, hack anything, Repair the Mako, etc.

I don't know about you, but my Vanguard usually took Kaidan, Garrus, or Tali along so she could open things and hack consoles and all that good stuff.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 10:44 .

[Darkhour]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Limited? How?

A soldier is a beast and an adept is a god.

Can't open chests, disable probes with nukes, collect insignias that are in locked chests, do anything about a lock anywhere, hack anything, Repair the Mako, etc.

I order:

1. So what? It's mostly junk.

2. Shepard is appearently trained in ordinance disarmament. (Eden Prime and the one N7 mission).

3. None of the collection stuff requires electronics or decryption.

4. See #1

5. See #1

6. Not true. Mako repair does not require tech skills.

[TheRealIncarnal]

I'd imagine that some level of combat competency is expected for a Specter. I bet that most of them don't kick as much ass as Shepard, we already know of three who didn't, but I would assume the Council would want someone who could at least defend themselves. Still, you can punch things all day and not get anywhere, but there are other skills that make a Specter, so clearly combat expertise is more of a side effect of what they do than the primary goal. 

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 16 mai 2011 - 11:35 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Darkhour wrote...

snip

There are several missions that you get from computers you have to hack aren't there? You'd never even know about them if you didn't have a techie. I don't know, I remmber not having a techie meant I couldn't salvage or hack a lot of stuff, making me feel dumb and wasteful.

The point is they can't send Shepard on any mission that has so much as an omni-gel proof door without someone else, so they don't, until game 2 where Shepard mystically picks up more advanced tech skills.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Also, this is absolutely positively my favorite look at secret agent espionage ever. The comic is wordy. The payoff is worth it.

[z4t001]

okay. ive read enough of this thread now.

I WANT THAT VOLUS IN MY PARTY.

[Darkhour]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

snip

There are several missions that you get from computers you have to hack aren't there? You'd never even know about them if you didn't have a techie. I don't know, I remmber not having a techie meant I couldn't salvage or hack a lot of stuff, making me feel dumb and wasteful.

The point is they can't send Shepard on any mission that has so much as an omni-gel proof door without someone else, so they don't, until game 2 where Shepard mystically picks up more advanced tech skills.

No, you can get any mission by simply flying to the star cluster. Some clusters are unlocked after Feros and Noveria.

All those encrypted boxes have junk in them.  Your personal compulsion to open everything does not constitute a necessity to open everything. There are absolutely no missions or assignments that require tech skills in ME1.

There is nothing in ME1 a non-tech Shepard needs in the field from anyone else.

Modifié par Darkhour, 17 mai 2011 - 03:44 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Darkhour wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

snip

There are several missions that you get from computers you have to hack aren't there? You'd never even know about them if you didn't have a techie. I don't know, I remmber not having a techie meant I couldn't salvage or hack a lot of stuff, making me feel dumb and wasteful.

The point is they can't send Shepard on any mission that has so much as an omni-gel proof door without someone else, so they don't, until game 2 where Shepard mystically picks up more advanced tech skills.

No, you can get any mission by simply flying to the star cluster. Some clusters are unlocked after Feros and Noveria.

All those encrypted boxes have junk in them.  Your personal compulsion to open everything does not constitute a necessity to open everything. There are absolutely no missions or assignments that require tech skills in ME1.

There is nothing in ME1 a non-tech Shepard needs in the field from anyone else.

Hey, don't look at me. I just remember being faced with a bunch of things I couldn't do when I didn't take a tech expert, so I took one. Sure, your shepard can choose to manually search every planet in the galaxy for missions rather than gathering intelligence, or to fight with his vehicle at sub-optimal efficiency (unless I'm wrong, tech helps repair the mako more efficiently?), or give up the chance to access thousands of credits worth of gear, Fine. Agreed. But if he does that he's acting at lower efficiency than someone who does have a techie along.

Also, if your Shepard can do all this solo, why does he insist on always taking two crewmembers along, every single misison, for his entire career, except for one? Isn't he needlessly endangering their lives, when he could easily accomplish all these missions completely independently with no help? That makes him a pretty poor commander.

In my experience, my crewmates do provide useful assistance, and I don't think I could do the job as well without them. But that's just how I feel.

Also: Setna Yan doesn't need any backup, either. He took down an entire Batarian slaver concern with just his wits and several hacking algorithms illegal in council space. And he ended up with a cargo hold full of beautiful, grateful asari maidens.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 mai 2011 - 04:18 .

[Darkhour]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hey, don't look at me. I just remember being faced with a bunch of things I couldn't do when I didn't take a tech expert, so I took one.

Sure, your shepard can choose to manually search every planet in the galaxy for missions rather than gathering intelligence, or to fight with his vehicle at sub-optimal efficiency (unless I'm wrong, tech helps repair the mako more efficiently?), or give up the chance to access thousands of credits worth of gear, Fine. Agreed. But if he does that he's acting at far far lower efficiency than someone who does have a techie along.

Not every crate is locked. And you get tons of loot by just killing enemies. I always reach 9,999,999 credits or whatever the limit is and end up having to throw away because I also have 999 omnigel. So I'm not real concerned with getting every crate open. Some people are just obsessive compulsive when it comes to crates. That's fine. But, opening every single crate isn't necessary.

You manually search every planet anyway if you're a completionist. It's not like there are hundreds of worlds to explore with only a handful having missions.  There are more missions that come from a message from Hackett (or someone else) and/or require you to explore than there are missions that you can (optionally) receive from hacking terminals.  Furthermore, if you are getting beat up in a Mako then you need to stop sitting in one spot and get moving. Enemy projectiles are so slow it's hard to get to a point where you would even need to do repairs. Thresther maws are the only exception and only because they can cheat.

Also, if your Shepard can do all this solo, why does he insist on always taking two crewmembers along, every single misison, for his entire career, except for one? Isn't he needlessly endangering their lives, when he could easily accomplish all these missions completely independently with no help? That makes him a pretty poor commander.

In my experience, my crewmates do provide useful assistance, and I don't think I could do the job as well without them. But that's just how I feel.

The question is, if Shepard has 6 squadies, why does he just take 2? Makes no sense. Of course 3 people are going to perform better in a firefight than 1 (and it's a video game that doesn't give you a choice to go solo).  That's not what's in question. Simply put, Shepard doesn't NEED his squad.  But, for example, just because I can build a boat by myself doesn't mean I would turn away help on the basis of how awesome I am.

[Darkhour]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Shepard needing a squad is the entire basis of ME2...

ME2 is a special circumstance. We're talking about ME1.

And while on the subject of ME2, Shepard could complete every mission besides the suicide mission single-handedly.

Without those closed doors however, Shepard could definitely fight his way through the collector base alone. Most recruitment/loyalty missions were more difficult than the so-called "suicide" mission.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Darkhour wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Shepard needing a squad is the entire basis of ME2...

ME2 is a special circumstance. We're talking about ME1.

And while on the subject of ME2, Shepard could complete every mission besides the suicide mission single-handedly.

Without those closed doors however, Shepard could definitely fight his way through the collector base alone. Most recruitment/loyalty missions were more difficult than the so-called "suicide" mission.

Commander Shepard: as long as you leave all your doors open, he's the perfect secret agent! Rural Canadians, beware!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 mai 2011 - 05:06 .