301 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Keep in mind that Shepard never underwent formal Spectre training. That probably should have been what they assigned Shep to between ME1 and 2 rather than geth hunting.

It would also have been a bettter explaination of how he could start ME2 with a fresh set of skills.

That's not a bad idea, actually.

It is explicitly stated that the Spectres candidates are ultimately selected due to their record, not training.

The Turians have this training program, but it's like their own initiative, not Council's, and it never said those who complete it are automatically inducted into spectres.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Keep in mind that Shepard never underwent formal Spectre training. That probably should have been what they assigned Shep to between ME1 and 2 rather than geth hunting.

It would also have been a bettter explaination of how he could start ME2 with a fresh set of skills.

That's not a bad idea, actually.

It is explicitly stated that the Spectres candidates are ultimately selected due to their record, not training.

The Turians have this training program, but it's like their own initiative, not Council's, and it never said those who complete it are automatically inducted into spectres.

It isn't said, though, that Spectres don't have any formal training. The only example we have is Shepard and that was sort of a special case, and if they had sent Shepard to 'spectre school' between games how would it have contradicted anything?

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Keep in mind that Shepard never underwent formal Spectre training. That probably should have been what they assigned Shep to between ME1 and 2 rather than geth hunting.

It would also have been a bettter explaination of how he could start ME2 with a fresh set of skills.

That's not a bad idea, actually.

It is explicitly stated that the Spectres candidates are ultimately selected due to their record, not training.

The Turians have this training program, but it's like their own initiative, not Council's, and it never said those who complete it are automatically inducted into spectres.

It isn't said, though, that Spectres don't have any formal training. The only example we have is Shepard and that was sort of a special case, and if they had sent Shepard to 'spectre school' between games how would it have contradicted anything?

Anderson was considered for spectres on the same basis as Shepard.  The Alliance proposed his candidacy, the Council approved of it, and assigned Saren to evaluate him. Saren gave a negative evalutation and that's the long and short of it.

It is also stated that the Spectres use different methods in their work, those that suit the most for each of them personally, implying (to answer the quetion of the OP) that some of them don't even have to be combat experts. They just have to get the job done. For all we know, some of them can just go around paying everybody to comply with their, and by extension the Council's requsts.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mai 2011 - 09:09 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It is explicitly stated that the Spectres candidates are ultimately selected due to their record, not training.

However they still recieve special training. Anderson tells you as much when you are made a Spectre. In-game this is represented by Shepard being able to put points into Unity and put points inteo "Spectre Training". So once recruited it does seem that they have some special skills they teach their operatives.

Well, maybe they gave him an OSD "How to Be a Pro SpecTRe in 10 Easy Lessons" or something.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mai 2011 - 09:09 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It is explicitly stated that the Spectres candidates are ultimately selected due to their record, not training.

However they still recieve special training. Anderson tells you as much when you are made a Spectre. In-game this is represented by Shepard being able to put points into Unity and put points inteo "Spectre Training". So once recruited it does seem that they have some special skills they teach their operatives.

I'd say it's more likely they gain access to additional resources. One of which is the option of learning from those more experienced in the spectre business.

If you get the job done without any additional training I highly doubt they're going to mark you absent for class and call your mom.

[Darkhour]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Shepard needing a squad is the entire basis of ME2...

ME2 is a special circumstance. We're talking about ME1.

And while on the subject of ME2, Shepard could complete every mission besides the suicide mission single-handedly.

Without those closed doors however, Shepard could definitely fight his way through the collector base alone. Most recruitment/loyalty missions were more difficult than the so-called "suicide" mission.

Commander Shepard: as long as you leave all your doors open, he's the perfect secret agent! Rural Canadians, beware!

The doors inherently required two people. 1 to go through the pipes. One to open the pipes.

To say that as a standard, Spectres shouldn't be required to work alone in 99% of cases to be considered the GALAXY'S FINEST is absurd. They wouldn't be Spectres, they'd be STG operatives. Shepard can't fight a war single handedly so I guess that means Spectres don't need to be able to take care of themselves.  Why, everybody is a Spctre in that case and the title has no meaning or significance.

Modifié par Darkhour, 17 mai 2011 - 12:37 .

[Moiaussi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anderson was considered for spectres on the same basis as Shepard.  The Alliance proposed his candidacy, the Council approved of it, and assigned Saren to evaluate him. Saren gave a negative evalutation and that's the long and short of it.

Anderson was considered, but since he was turned down we don't know if he would have received any additional training or not.

[Moiaussi]

Darkhour wrote...

The doors inherently required two people. 1 to go through the pipes. One to open the pipes.

To say that as a standard, Spectres shouldn't be required to work alone in 99% of cases to be considered the GALAXY'S FINEST is absurd. They wouldn't be Spectres, they'd be STG operatives. Shepard can't fight a war single handedly so I guess that means Spectres don't need to be able to take care of themselves.  Why, everybody is a Spctre in that case and the title has no meaning or significance.

Actually the doors just needed a body tossed into the pipes. The person doesn't have to have any clue what they are doing at all. Hence it being used by some as a 'garbage chute' for whichever squad member they want to get rid of at the time.

Near as I can tell, he could have tossed a corpse in and the doors would have opened....

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Anderson was considered for spectres on the same basis as Shepard.  The Alliance proposed his candidacy, the Council approved of it, and assigned Saren to evaluate him. Saren gave a negative evalutation and that's the long and short of it.

Anderson was considered, but since he was turned down we don't know if he would have received any additional training or not.

Yes, but without indication one way or another we have to go twith the higher probability that such trainging is not required, beyond the "10 Easy Lessons" OSD.

The Turian program most probably is the initiative of the Hierarchy, aimed at improving the chances of the Turians to become candidates and successfully pass their "exams". The "exams" might be taken without the training probably even by the Turian candidates who have an outstanding enough record.

[TheRevanchist]

Spectres aren't made...their born." - Capitan Anderson

That one phrase tells me everything...either your just naturally good enough...or your not, and that people of such natural caliber would not need such training.

[bald man in a boat]

If spectres didn't have to be combat experts these would be some pretty boring games.

[dragonflight288]

I haven't read this entire thread, but what I have read seems to revolve around the debate of "Spectre's combat specialists required?"

Anyway, My thoughts are pretty simple. Spectres are called by the council because they excel at what they do. They have long histories of success and adaptability. A spectre needs to be able to adapt to any situation. Combat, diplomatic, and everything in between. As for the argument that one species requires all their spectres to be biotics? Is that person talking about the Asari? All asari are biotics. Even he non-spectres. And considering they live 1000 years, they have a lot more time to develop their abilities. But it also means it takes longer to be recognized as skilled by other Asari.

And one time, while walking through the citadel, the galactic news was talking about this vid of the first Hanar spectre. So I know it isn't restricted to council races. I mean, a Hanar. Umm...I don't think they can hold guns.

Zaede talks of how a Hanar almost killed him because it was strangling him. He never underestimated a Hanar ever since.

So my opinion is that Spectres need to be able to adapt and handle combat situations. But they aren't required to be combat specialists. That just helps the resume.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Do Spectres need to be combat experts? I'd say yes, otherwise they wouldn't live long.  They represent the Council's power and authority.  On top of that, they're also known to work solo.  They need to be able to handle themselves in tight situations.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 mai 2011 - 06:23 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Dave666 wrote...
Indeed.  Ship.Wreck?  You do realize that SpecTRe is an acronym, right?  It stands for Special Tactics and Recon. Its not about being a ghost.

The proper way to form an acronym is to take the first letter and only the first letter of each word, and condense them into a new single word, which is most often not a word at all. Case in point: Too much information > Too Much Information > T.M.I

However it is a common practive to use multiple letters from the original phrase in order to force an acronym to replicate an actuall word, the definition of which is metaphorically related to the original phrase or title: Case in point: Special Tactics and Reconasaince > SPECial Tactics and REconasaince > SPECTRE

If being a Spectre had nothing to do with being spectre-like no one would be bothering to FORCE the acronym to say SPECTRE when technically speaking it should say STR (Special Tactics and Reconasaince).

The acronym was forced to take the form of the word spectre for the specific purpose of conjuring our emotional response to the term spectre. You are correct Spectre is indeed an acronym, but far from being divorced from the meaning of the term spectre; it was in fact forced to take the form of that word and is throughly intwined with the meaning of the term spectre.

But for the sake of argument I'll entertain a hypothetical here: Even IF you're idea that being a Spectre has nothing to do with being spectre-like were correct, which I've just demonstrated that it's not. But even IF it were. Your argument only offers further support for my position that Spectres are combat experts anyway.

Negotiators do not conduct reconasaince
Spies do not conduct reconasaince.

Spies do infiltrate and gater inteligence, but the term recon does not apply. Recon is a very specific term reffering to the military action of gathering intelligence. Recon experts such as United States Marine Corps Force Reconasaince are highly trained in stealth AND combat tactics. All recon experts are combat experts for the simple fact that if they are discovered by any individual they have to be proficient in combat to the extent that they can rapidly neutralize the individual before he/she can report his/her findings and an alarm can be raised. Furthermore they have to be proficient in combat to the extent that if an alarm is raised, they can fight at least well enough to survive and escape the enemy in order to return the intell they have gathered to their command. Which given the probable circumstance that they are operating fairly deep inside enemy territory and are massively outnumbered, means: "They better be pretty G*d damn proficient!" in other words: combat experts.

The term recon alone in the acronym spectre effectively reveals that Spectres are military combat experts. And the forced acronym Spectre shows us that they are spectre-like. And really any reconasaince operative is spectre-like, the very nature of reconasaince itself is spectre-like.

I hate to break it to you non-combatant idealizing hippies: but Spectre's are undeniably combat experts. Your basic idea that combat experts are not absolutely necessary to solve large problem is true, but individuals specializing in non-combat solutions (such as negotiators) simply wouldn't fall into the catagory of Spectre by any logical assessment. I know

[Darkhour]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And one time, while walking through the citadel, the galactic news was talking about this vid of the first Hanar spectre. So I know it isn't restricted to council races. I mean, a Hanar. Umm...I don't think they can hold guns.

.

Blasto the Jellyfish is a fiction character in a series of hanarploitation movies.  He is a joke character made up by someone on the old forums. The devs put it in the game as an easter egg.

[dragonflight288]

Oh. Didn't know that. Ah well. Still was interesting to hear the galactic news talking about a hanaar spectre.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Spectre's are like the Delta Force or Navy Seals or more accurately, CIA paramilitary of the galaxy. They may have other skills to enable them to succeed, but combat skills are their primary asset.

Why create a Special Forces unit that will be deployed in hot zones if they aren't combat experts that could handle themselves should something go wrong?

[Moiaussi]

Exactly. Experts at talk-fu are much more likely to be either in a political or ambassadorial role, or even more likely in the private sector making scads of money.

[Inquisitor Recon]

In my opinion, yes. I would imagine there is some sort of Citadel intelligence organization that works with the Spectres, but the members of that aren't Spectres themselves.

[Nathan Redgrave]

ReconTeam wrote...

In my opinion, yes. I would imagine there is some sort of Citadel intelligence organization that works with the Spectres, but the members of that aren't Spectres themselves.

Even military intelligence and support staff go through combat training. They wouldn't necessarily be the cream of the crop, but they'd know their way around an assault rifle just fine.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Exactly. Experts at talk-fu are much more likely to be either in a political or ambassadorial role, or even more likely in the private sector making scads of money.

And yet it is explicitly stated in the Codex, that some prefer the "talk-fu".

It is also stated that sometimes Spectres work in small groups, which means such groups may include all-kinds of specialist, including those that specialise in "talk-fu" and adjacent disciplines, like libel, frаming, scheming etc. and have zero combat training.

[Zulu_DFA]

ReconTeam wrote...

In my opinion, yes. I would imagine there is some sort of Citadel intelligence organization that works with the Spectres, but the members of that aren't Spectres themselves.

Do you mean C-Sec?