53 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiffany Marie 123]

Okay so I don't get this part- I killed Anders (bloody idiot) even though we were at full friendship/romance. Yet in the epilogue it said Anders was alive? I also tend to think this is a mistake, because he was not known to be a blood mage or anything, so there's no way I could see him living past my knife in his back? 
Unless it's Justice...which in doubt. In that case wouldn't Justice just return to the Fade anyhow? I don't know. It's very annoying, because I WANTED Anders dead, and now the epilogue  has me thinking about what role he would play in Dragon Age III.

[Dave of Canada]

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders does NOT think, that way.  He never has.

-Polaris

Unless you rivalry him.

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...
Anders does NOT think, that way.  He never has.

-Polaris

Anders isn't pragamatic? Is that what you're saying?  Did you forget what he said about the Circle splitting from the Chantry in Awakening? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 08:29 .

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders does NOT think, that way.  He never has.

-Polaris

Unless you rivalry him.

I have rivalried him and he still doesn't (and no I don't mean at the very end).  This is just one more way to ruin Act III further (and I didn't think that was possible until now).

Anders would NEVER knowingly slaughter mages for something he did, friendship or rivalry.  He'd rather kill himself which makes perfect sense.  Even if he did, Justice would take over and never permit it anyway.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Anders does NOT think, that way.  He never has.

-Polaris

Anders isn't pragamatic? Is that what you're saying? 

Since when has Anders EVER been pragmatic?

-Polaris

Edit:  He wasn't really pragmatic then.  He was a coward when it came to the big stuff before Justice.  That's not pragmatism.  That's an unwillingness to stick his nose out for a greater cause....something that Justice lamblasts Anders for in DAA.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 14 mai 2011 - 08:30 .

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...
Since when has Anders EVER been pragmatic?

-Polaris

since Awakening when he thought the Circle splitting from the Chantry was insanity?

Cowardice? Yes what a coward to run away from the circle seven times and then to follow the WC around even when under seige by darkspawn instead of running away. Totally a coward he is.  Justice is the idiot who acts on emotion. Anders actually thinks things through. It's clear evidence of how much control Justice has over Anders that his decisions start becoming more and more shortsighted. 

Whatever. It's in the game regardless. There's no point in me debating this. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

[ipgd]

Anders is an intensely emotional character prone to bouts of highly irrational manic-depression. He's not sitting down to tea and having a nice reasoned discussion where he rationally weighs the pros and the cons and ultimately decides siding with the templars is Just, he makes a knee-jerk decision to follow Hawke in the context of a massive depressive episode. Making bad emotionally-driven decisions is practically the entire basis of his character arc (joining with Justice in the first place, killing/nearly killing Ella, detonating the Chantry), and him deciding to follow Hawke with the templars and later regretting is hardly out of place with them.

Rifneno wrote...

And you know that extreme emotional distress is when Justice can take over Harbinger style, right?

It is. Which speaks a lot to how distracted he must be with the task of keeping Justice under control. He says he's actively fighting against his influence in the proper rivalry path. How much mental power do you think he's dedicating to rationally thinking this through if he's managing to keep Justice in check despite the fact he just agreed to throw away everything they worked towards? Fighting Justice is probably the only thing he's thinking about.

[Augustei]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aigyl wrote...

Here's dialogue where Anders will side with the Templars:

www.youtube.com/watch

Rival Anders does not want a violent revolution. He wants to stop the war before it starts. Makes sense to me.

EDIT: Woops, already been posted

Makes sense to me as well. 

He wanted to fix the mess he made. Best way was to nip it in the bud. A thousand deaths now vs a million ones later. A common choice in war. 

Anders does NOT think, that way.  He never has.

-Polaris

"What!?! They cant do that.. Even I know mages pulling away from the chantry entirely is a receipe for disaster"

Dispite Varrics stupid epilogue speech to Cassandra, siding with the templars would more likely have shown the Templars cant be messed with rather than they can be defyed and would have stopped the mages from revolting.. At least thats what he could have thought, it makes sense. Who the hell would revolt when the first proper attempt to gets put down hard?

[Dave of Canada]

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders would NEVER knowingly slaughter mages for something he did, friendship or rivalry.  He'd rather kill himself which makes perfect sense.  Even if he did, Justice would take over and never permit it anyway.

-Polaris

Unless he believes it'll be for the best to the mages in the long run (which he does during the rivalry), you can convince him that what he does is proving the Templar right and there can be more peaceful ways of achieving mage freedom. He sides with you to clean up his mess and hope the war doesn't break out.

He fights against Justice every step of the way, it isn't like Justice is cool with it. He's pretty much suicidal in the rivalry path ending because of how much he's struggling against Justice.

[LobselVith8]

Aigyl wrote...

Here's dialogue where Anders will side with the Templars:

www.youtube.com/watch

Rival Anders does not want a violent revolution. He wants to stop the war before it starts. Makes sense to me.

I've seen the rivalry scene where Anders sides with a pro-templar Hawke, but it feels OOC to me. Why is Hawke talking about a revolution? The problem is there is no war, there is no revolution, it was all Anders (and Justice, or Vengeance). Anders attacked the Kirkwall Chantry, not the Circle of Kirkwall. The only reason there's fighting in the streets is because the templars are trying to kill all the Circle mages.

[Xilizhra]

Unless he believes it'll be for the best to the mages in the long run (which he does during the rivalry), you can convince him that what he does is proving the Templar right and there can be more peaceful ways of achieving mage freedom. He sides with you to clean up his mess and hope the war doesn't break out.

So Anders is unequivocally dumber on the rivalry path, it seems; in friendship, he sees that his example will spur the mages into a deserved rebellion, while in rivalry, he deludes himself that he might be able to stop the war.

[Aigyl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Aigyl wrote...

Here's dialogue where Anders will side with the Templars:

www.youtube.com/watch

Rival Anders does not want a violent revolution. He wants to stop the war before it starts. Makes sense to me.

I've seen the rivalry scene where Anders sides with a pro-templar Hawke, but it feels OOC to me. Why is Hawke talking about a revolution? The problem is there is no war, there is no revolution, it was all Anders (and Justice, or Vengeance). Anders attacked the Kirkwall Chantry, not the Circle of Kirkwall. The only reason there's fighting in the streets is because the templars are trying to kill all the Circle mages.

Ah I zee.

Yep, the Kirkwall Circle was blameless. The reason Anders/Justice blew up the Chantry was to provoke a bloodbath that would enrage other Circles into revolution. The ensuing slaughter on Elthina's death would give mages everywhere a will to rise up against the templars and break the status quo with war.

By siding with the Templars it can be reasoned that, through rather unpleasant means, the situation can be contained before the war starts and order restored. That's what Rival Anders' reasoning for fighting against the Circle is as I see it, anywho.

[Xilizhra]

It can be reasoned, but only by those regrettably lacking in foresight, a quality that Anders had a lot of on the friendship path. Tragic, really.

[De Chimera]

Thank you all for posting, now that i know what may or may not happen,
i can play thou accordingly.

[TJPags]

IMO, every instant of DA2 was OOC for Anders.

But then, maybe that's just me . . . .

[Ryzaki]

TJPags wrote...

IMO, every instant of DA2 was OOC for Anders.

But then, maybe that's just me . . . .

It's never just you. 

[gonzalez.melissa53]

I want this opption! XD I love that you can make him see reason and that he will come w/ you to try and make right by siding w/ the templars.

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...

IMO, every instant of DA2 was OOC for Anders.

But then, maybe that's just me . . . .

So you missed not only the Justice parts, but all the foreshadowing in DA:A?

No, it's not just you.  Lots of people missed those things.

[Xewaka]

IanPolaris wrote...
Anders would NEVER knowingly slaughter mages for something he did, friendship or rivalry.  He'd rather kill himself which makes perfect sense.  Even if he did, Justice would take over and never permit it anyway.
-Polaris

Yet that exactly is what he does regardless of which side you choose, byway of removing the compromise option. It is Anders who enables Meredith to call the Right of Annulment. It is Anders who willfully calls forth what you refer as "the Genocide of the Circle".
The blood of the whole Kirkwall Circle is in Ander's hands.

[upsettingshorts]

Yup, its the purpose of his gambit. To force mages to fight. That many will die is on his mind, he simply decided it was preferable to living with the status quo. He explains all this. It's not even something that has to be interpreted, he spells it out.

[draken-heart]

 here is the thing: if you listen to Orsino at the start of act three, he calls meredith out on her paranoia (in essence). and if you play through the firewood of a revolution was already in place by the time Anders starts talking about it, since act one. it would not me surprised if the mages burned the Starkhaven circle down on purpose. it only took anders blowing up the chantry in kirkwall to release the spark for that revolution (Meredith calling RoA on circle even though they were not involved). the revolution was already planned, the fire just needed to get started.

Modifié par draken-heart, 25 mai 2011 - 11:05 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

It's already possible to 'force' this outcome, although you can only do it through a glitch I've found (and so far, it doesn't seem to work on PC).

You also get to keep both Sebastian and Anders this way, too...

[pittlers]

Well, the patch is out and Anders still refuses to help me... nothing has changed in the dialogue. Do I have to start a new game or something? Do I have to do the whole justice quest?

Modifié par pittlers, 03 juin 2011 - 10:33 .

[IanPolaris]

pittlers wrote...

Well, the patch is out and Anders still refuses to help me... nothing has changed in the dialogue. Do I have to start a new game or something? Do I have to do the whole justice quest?

The new (and IMO bad) patch won't go into effect if you already got the "justice" quest in your saved game.  Once you got the quest, the patch won't touch it.

-Polaris