64 réponses à ce sujet

[Covane]

 I dont know if this has been discussed, but I've been wondering about it for a while. The reaper can still indoctrinate, as seen with the cerberus science team. Is it one of Mordin's upgrades that allow's them to walk through safely? Thoughts?

[CheeseEnchilada]

Indoctrination is not an immediate thing. It can take days or weeks of constant contact. Shepard and crew simply weren't there long enough to suffer any effects.

[Clonedzero]

it takes quite awhile. its a slow subtle process rather than a fast one.
the cerberus science team was there for a couple weeks if i recall correctly.

they go into deeper in ME1.

its less about total mind control and more about manipulating people and eventually pushing that into mind control basically.

[LTKerr]

Shepard and his/her squad were on board for what? 4 hours at most? Indoctrination needs more time.

[Someone With Mass]

Still, after all those encounters with Reaper technology, Shepard should at least feel something.

[Spectreshadow]

Well Shepard is a cyborg now so maybe indoctrination doesn't have the same timeline it does with pure organics

[Elite Midget]

Male Shepards Chest reflects indoctorination rays.

Female Shepard has boobies thus logic doesn't work on her party.

[Clonedzero]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still, after all those encounters with Reaper technology, Shepard should at least feel something.

i dont think it works like that. i'd assume any effect from brief reaper exposure would wear off. especially since its never the same reaper.

[Skilled Seeker]

What about Arrival, Shepard was on that station with the Reaper artifact for 2 days+.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

What about Arrival, Shepard was on that station with the Reaper artifact for 2 days+.

The fact of the matter is there is no evidence for or against the possibility of Shepard being influenced by Reaper tech/indoctrination. We simply don't know.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm still betting that the fear that Shepard's been indoctrinated is a large part behind Cerberus's antagonism in ME3.

[Skilled Seeker]

Well he may have been indoctrinated in Arrival! Though that wouldn't make much sense if you do it early and then still go and attack the Collectors and fight the Reapers. Unless Bioware makes it canon that it's the last thing Shepard does in ME2.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 14 mai 2011 - 07:29 .

[Bad King]

Maybe Shepard has been indoctrinated all along and opposing the reapers was a ploy to win the trust of the other races while waiting for the opportune moment to strike out at them and help the reapers destroy them.

[Dean_the_Young]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well he may have been indoctrinated in Arrival! Though that wouldn't make much sense if you do it early and then still go and attack the Collectors and fight the Reapers. Unless Bioware makes it canon that it's the last thing Shepard does in ME2.

It's pseudo-canon in the sense that ME3 'takes place two monthes after Arrival', but Retribution itself takes place a year after the Suicide Mission. Pre-suicide mission Arrival is a concession to gameplay, as is noted with the 'monthes or years' caveat, but otherwise Arrival is going to be largely assumed to be what it is: post-Suicide Mission 'bridging DLC.'


It can always be played that Shepard is currently 'lightly' indoctrinated thanks to Arrival, not enough to turn traitor but enough to be too vulnerable, and Cerberus wants to stop Shepard at all costs before Shepard inadverdantly betrays*/is outright indoctrinated by the Reapers.


*One of the hallmarks of the middle-stages of Indoctrination is that people begin to rationalize increasingly bad decisions. In Arrival, the Doctor began musing that the Reapers had to be about something more than just genocide, if life kept springing up again, and so destroying the Relay may be a hasty decision. In Retribution, the Reapers increasingly twisted Grayson's mind against him, leading him into arguing his own way out of committing suicide, and then convincing him to contact Sanders in order to protect her (when his reason for resisting was just that).

In ME3, this could be carried out by Shepard being mostly reasonable, but increasngly making 'mistakes' or having undue confidence. Players wouldn't necessarily catch it because, again, the arguments seem reasonable when rationalized and confidence is justified for Commander Shepard, and it wouldn't become obvious until it was too late.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 14 mai 2011 - 07:54 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Yeah it would make for a nice twist. I can totally see Bioware pulling it off. Also do you have any idea what the gap between the suicide mission and the start of ME3 is then?

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 14 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[jamesp81]

Indoctrination takes a while. Apparently, days or even weeks is the norm for it to really take hold.

[jamesp81]

Clonedzero wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Still, after all those encounters with Reaper technology, Shepard should at least feel something.

i dont think it works like that. i'd assume any effect from brief reaper exposure would wear off. especially since its never the same reaper.

I think the effect is cumulative.  The longer you're exposed, the more effect it has.  Removing yourself from the exposure undoes anything it did to you.

And a few hours exposure isn't enough to amount to anything.

[jamesp81]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well he may have been indoctrinated in Arrival! Though that wouldn't make much sense if you do it early and then still go and attack the Collectors and fight the Reapers. Unless Bioware makes it canon that it's the last thing Shepard does in ME2.

Shepard's mind is extremely resistant to external forces, even before Cerberus gave him upgrades in Project Lazarus.  In ME1, Liara mentions very directly, on more than one occasion, that Shepard's mind was unbelievably resilient and that he would be naturally very difficult to manipulate mentally.

Shepard was not indoctrinated in Arrival.  He never will be indoctrinated.  The writers established lore very early that explains why he doesn't get indoctrinated.

[jamesp81]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Yeah it would make for a nice twist. I can totally see Bioware pulling it off. Also do you have any idea what the gap between the suicide mission and the start of ME3 is then?

If the plot of ME3 is "lol, Shepard is indoctrinated, and all humans get reaped" Bioware can find someone else to pay for that craptastic story telling, because I sure as hell won't.

[88mphSlayer]

it's like radiation it doesn't affect you unless you get lots of exposure

which is why i always bring up the remote-controlled robot solution to the universe's indoctrination problems... but whatever, cerberus and alliance alike are more interested in archaic science

[CroGamer002]

Indoctrination takes MONTHS to be fully successful.

[88mphSlayer]

jamesp81 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Yeah it would make for a nice twist. I can totally see Bioware pulling it off. Also do you have any idea what the gap between the suicide mission and the start of ME3 is then?

If the plot of ME3 is "lol, Shepard is indoctrinated, and all humans get reaped" Bioware can find someone else to pay for that craptastic story telling, because I sure as hell won't.

i don't buy it that Shepard is somehow immune to indoctrination, what's the real explanation behind that? i mean unless Shepard is some kind of X-Men mutant with untapped superpowers then there's gotta be other people immune to indoctrination as well - if Shepard's implants helps him fight indoctrination then it would make little sense for anybody working for Cerberus to get indoctrinated either

my reasoning is just that Shepard never spends enough time around reaper artifacts or reaper tech to get indoctrinated because he/she is far more likely to be blowing that stuff up or getting the hell away than studying it like a scientist or living around it

MGS4 got it right with its nanomachines plot device affecting old snake, when Liquid says "lay down" Snake basically has to comply no matter how hard he resists - adds to the drama of Snake making it out alive, Shepard being immune adds nothing to the drama unless everybody around him/her is getting indoctrinated including squadmates

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 14 mai 2011 - 09:39 .

[Moiaussi]

The beacon could have been designed to re-write DNA somewhat, and provide resistance or immunity. It would explain a fair bit. Note that even though it is suggested that indoctrination can take a long time, the smugglers on Eden mentioned a drumming in their heads that was close to incapacitating. The prisoner on Vermire reported similar, despite others there not being affected at all.

[WizenSlinky0]

Indoctrination speed depends on the strength of mind of a particular subject. However, the normal is a few days to a week or so of constant exposure. It's been referred to as a "subtle whisper deep in your mind that compels you to do things without knowing why" and that eventually overtime it erodes your willpower and you stop resisting.

A trained and powerful mind can resist it for a greater period of time. So I'd assume that so long as you remove yourself from exposure before a certain line is crossed, the effect would wear off on its own, or perhaps not take hold at all.

It's a subtle and slow process that breaks down the mind piece by piece so that you agree completely with anything the reapers tell you. You're not being "forced" to obey anymore, you "want" to obey. And that's why the process is so slow.

The beacon transmited a warning. If it had additional information to resist indoctrination Vigil would have mentioned it.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 14 mai 2011 - 09:59 .