Shepard isn't immune, that's ridiculous and there's nothing in the story to suggest so.
I find it very likely that Shepard will be indoctrinated in some manner come ME3. The opportunity is too good to pass up and frankly I'm sick of Shepard's unstoppable super hero survivability.
Why doesn't Shepard and the rest of the party become indoctrinated while on the derelict reaper?
Débuté par
Covane
, mai 14 2011 06:28
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#27
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:25
Herakleia
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We also have the example of Matriarch Benezia being able to shake it off for at least a brief interval while out of direct contact, even though she was Saren's lieutenant and spent quite a deal of time aboard Sovereign.
#28
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:26
AlexMBrennan
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How, exactly is a mind-controlled player character going to work? Are we going to have to watch hours of Shepard running errands for the Reapers to fix the Citadel relay?
Edit: Well, I suppose they could always add more "failure is the only option" / Reaper railroading to the game
Edit: Well, I suppose they could always add more "failure is the only option" / Reaper railroading to the game
Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 14 mai 2011 - 10:29 .
#29
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:40
WizenSlinky0
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Herakleia wrote...
We also have the example of Matriarch Benezia being able to shake it off for at least a brief interval while out of direct contact, even though she was Saren's lieutenant and spent quite a deal of time aboard Sovereign.
It's mentioned that due to her exception will-power and biotic ability she created a form of "haven" in her own mind, waiting for an oppurtunity to use it, which happened to be then. But she also mentions something along the lines of "I will never be myself again".
So she had already lost.
#30
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:40
Moiaussi
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Skilled Seeker wrote...
Shepard isn't immune, that's ridiculous and there's nothing in the story to suggest so.
I find it very likely that Shepard will be indoctrinated in some manner come ME3. The opportunity is too good to pass up and frankly I'm sick of Shepard's unstoppable super hero survivability.
Why is it so rediculous? We know from ME1 that the Protheans tampered with humanity, and that the beacon did affect Shepard. It doesn't have to be blatantly suggested in the story to be non-rediculous.
As for 'Shepard's unsoppable super hero survivability', Shep already died once. How do you top that and still have a viable game?
#31
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:44
WizenSlinky0
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Moiaussi wrote...
Why is it so rediculous? We know from ME1 that the Protheans tampered with humanity, and that the beacon did affect Shepard. It doesn't have to be blatantly suggested in the story to be non-rediculous.
As for 'Shepard's unsoppable super hero survivability', Shep already died once. How do you top that and still have a viable game?
The beacon affected shepard because:
A.) It was made to transmit information to other protheans (that's why the cipher was needed)
B.) It was partially damaged.
#32
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:48
Skilled Seeker
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Just because Shepard gets indoctrinated to an extent, doesn't mean he can't find some way to reverse the effects. I'm not saying ME3 should only have a bad ending, though a bad ending should certainly be a possibility (and hopefully more likely to happen than ME2's bad ending which you had to actually aim for on purpose).
#33
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:58
Moiaussi
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WizenSlinky0 wrote...
The beacon affected shepard because:
A.) It was made to transmit information to other protheans (that's why the cipher was needed)
B.) It was partially damaged.
A ) This doesn't mean it couldn't have analyzed and adjusted his DNA anyway. Medi-gel isn't race specific, why would Prothean medical tech have to be?
Again, we know that the Protheans tampered with humanity. It may be that the transmission simply awakened latent resistance.
#34
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 11:50
Dancing Doran
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Moiaussi wrote...
The beacon could have been designed to re-write DNA somewhat, and provide resistance or immunity. It would explain a fair bit. Note that even though it is suggested that indoctrination can take a long time, the smugglers on Eden mentioned a drumming in their heads that was close to incapacitating. The prisoner on Vermire reported similar, despite others there not being affected at all.
Yes but, Saren also used the beacon and he got indoctrinated.
#35
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 11:54
Inutaisho7996
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Dancing Doran wrote...
Moiaussi wrote...
The beacon could have been designed to re-write DNA somewhat, and provide resistance or immunity. It would explain a fair bit. Note that even though it is suggested that indoctrination can take a long time, the smugglers on Eden mentioned a drumming in their heads that was close to incapacitating. The prisoner on Vermire reported similar, despite others there not being affected at all.
Yes but, Saren also used the beacon and he got indoctrinated.
He was indoctrinated before he used the beacon.
#36
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 12:05
Elfseeker
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Saren spent nearly every waking moment, from before the start of the game -aboard Sovereign-!
And he explained why he was 'himself' quiet clearly at Virmire. He was 'needed'.
Personally I think what was 'needed' was a lack of reaper-influence, in case there were defenses in place to stop reaper-servants from reaching the conduit. After that he'd be drowned in whatever it is exerting that influence, becoming a mindless drone after all. And yes, I think reapers can 'adjust' the strength of the signal. Either that, or the bothersome noise heard by the peeps at Eden was just something it cooked up to disturb the colonists even more. It would, after all, havea thorough knowledge of what 'biologicals' would find frightening.
As for the 'dead' reaper, well. it was dead. unable to control the effect to any appreciable degree, and unable to benefit from any slave created in such a manner. The artifact in Arrival? Might very well be pumping out 'conversion-juice' like no tomorrow....but while the ray or whatever it is works on all sentient races in the games, I still think Shepard, with his mind altered toward a prothean setup by at least two beacons, and a scattering of artifacts, would be outside their expected range, or somesuch. As observed elsewhere, having Shepard fall to indoctrination, however briefly, would have to involve a period of 'railroading' or plain old 'FMV'ing(or whatever the shortcut is)....neither of which is all that likely to raise player enjoyment, if decisions are taken against their will. On that note, I'd like to see a paragon and a renegade-type answer/conclusion to -every- conversation, no more 'middle or low'-nonsense.
And he explained why he was 'himself' quiet clearly at Virmire. He was 'needed'.
Personally I think what was 'needed' was a lack of reaper-influence, in case there were defenses in place to stop reaper-servants from reaching the conduit. After that he'd be drowned in whatever it is exerting that influence, becoming a mindless drone after all. And yes, I think reapers can 'adjust' the strength of the signal. Either that, or the bothersome noise heard by the peeps at Eden was just something it cooked up to disturb the colonists even more. It would, after all, havea thorough knowledge of what 'biologicals' would find frightening.
As for the 'dead' reaper, well. it was dead. unable to control the effect to any appreciable degree, and unable to benefit from any slave created in such a manner. The artifact in Arrival? Might very well be pumping out 'conversion-juice' like no tomorrow....but while the ray or whatever it is works on all sentient races in the games, I still think Shepard, with his mind altered toward a prothean setup by at least two beacons, and a scattering of artifacts, would be outside their expected range, or somesuch. As observed elsewhere, having Shepard fall to indoctrination, however briefly, would have to involve a period of 'railroading' or plain old 'FMV'ing(or whatever the shortcut is)....neither of which is all that likely to raise player enjoyment, if decisions are taken against their will. On that note, I'd like to see a paragon and a renegade-type answer/conclusion to -every- conversation, no more 'middle or low'-nonsense.
#37
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 12:23
Skilled Seeker
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I'll tell you why Shepard isn't immune. He reacts to the Reaper artifact in Arrival as it calls out to him and clearly loses himself for a moment, allowing the scientist to get the better of him. If he was immune, he should have been able to resist the signal.
And I fail to see how having a segment where Shep is indoctrinated will railroad the game anymore than it already is in terms of choice.
And I fail to see how having a segment where Shep is indoctrinated will railroad the game anymore than it already is in terms of choice.
#38
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 12:32
WizenSlinky0
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Moiaussi wrote...
WizenSlinky0 wrote...
The beacon affected shepard because:
A.) It was made to transmit information to other protheans (that's why the cipher was needed)
B.) It was partially damaged.
A ) This doesn't mean it couldn't have analyzed and adjusted his DNA anyway. Medi-gel isn't race specific, why would Prothean medical tech have to be?
What? It wasn't medical tech, the beacon was a long-range communication device. The Illos scientists sent a warning through the beacon to any surviving protheans warning them about the reapers, encoded to only allow a prothean to understand it (before they realized exactly what indoctrination did).
It wasn't medical in nature. It was a communication device.
And when did we find out protheans tampered with humanity? I didn't get this memo.
Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 15 mai 2011 - 12:33 .
#39
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 01:08
88mphSlayer
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AlexMBrennan wrote...
How, exactly is a mind-controlled player character going to work? Are we going to have to watch hours of Shepard running errands for the Reapers to fix the Citadel relay?
Edit: Well, I suppose they could always add more "failure is the only option" / Reaper railroading to the game
the Reaper just need Shepard to do nothing that would hurt their interests, no errands needed, just change the perception the player has on current events
#40
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 01:25
WizenSlinky0
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But that would defeat the entire purpose of the game-play. I mean, we're meant to make decisions, this would essentially make Renegade decisions Paragon and Paragon decisions, renegade.
And we wouldn't even know it until the world was all but dead. It would just be an entirely odd addition that kinda gives the player the finger.
Unless they stopped letting US make the decision, in which case, it's railroading no matter how you spin it.
And we wouldn't even know it until the world was all but dead. It would just be an entirely odd addition that kinda gives the player the finger.
Unless they stopped letting US make the decision, in which case, it's railroading no matter how you spin it.
#42
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 01:28
jamesp81
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88mphSlayer wrote...
jamesp81 wrote...
Skilled Seeker wrote...
Yeah it would make for a nice twist. I can totally see Bioware pulling it off. Also do you have any idea what the gap between the suicide mission and the start of ME3 is then?
If the plot of ME3 is "lol, Shepard is indoctrinated, and all humans get reaped" Bioware can find someone else to pay for that craptastic story telling, because I sure as hell won't.
i don't buy it that Shepard is somehow immune to indoctrination, what's the real explanation behind that?
It's in ME1. Liara talks about it. And he's not "immune". Just extraordinarily resistant.
#43
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 01:33
jamesp81
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OK, folks, let me simplify for it you.
Replay ME1. Pay attention to Liara's comments on how strong Shepard's mind is. She specifically states, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard's mine is naturally very resistant to tampering or mental manipulation.
The writers have already answered the question posed in the OP.
Replay ME1. Pay attention to Liara's comments on how strong Shepard's mind is. She specifically states, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard's mine is naturally very resistant to tampering or mental manipulation.
The writers have already answered the question posed in the OP.
#44
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:04
88mphSlayer
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jamesp81 wrote...
OK, folks, let me simplify for it you.
Replay ME1. Pay attention to Liara's comments on how strong Shepard's mind is. She specifically states, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard's mine is naturally very resistant to tampering or mental manipulation.
The writers have already answered the question posed in the OP.
great... how is his brain resistant to indoctrination from machines older than the human race again?
#45
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:19
jamesp81
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88mphSlayer wrote...
jamesp81 wrote...
OK, folks, let me simplify for it you.
Replay ME1. Pay attention to Liara's comments on how strong Shepard's mind is. She specifically states, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard's mine is naturally very resistant to tampering or mental manipulation.
The writers have already answered the question posed in the OP.
great... how is his brain resistant to indoctrination from machines older than the human race again?
No idea. The writers chose not to explain it. I'm going with space magic.
#46
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:31
Moiaussi
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WizenSlinky0 wrote...
What? It wasn't medical tech, the beacon was a long-range communication device. The Illos scientists sent a warning through the beacon to any surviving protheans warning them about the reapers, encoded to only allow a prothean to understand it (before they realized exactly what indoctrination did).
It wasn't medical in nature. It was a communication device.
And when did we find out protheans tampered with humanity? I didn't get this memo.
If you do consort Shi'ara's quest in ME1, she can reward you with an amulet that later opens a recording on a remote world, which reveals that the Protheans were studying early man. This fact becomes even more interesting in ME2 now that we know that the Collectors were originally Protheans, meaning that either that observation was done by the Illos group (in which case they might have modified our DNA to give us better odds next cycle in case they didn't survive, just as they left beacons), or if it wasn't the Illos group, then the Reapers knew about Humanity and could have altered us so that we would evolve in the direction they wanted us to do so we would make better slushie-chow next cycle, which may have had a side effect of making humanity more resistant.
As for the beacon not having medical functions, you know this, how? I didn't get the memo in which we actually pulled one apart and studied it.
#47
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:31
DTKT
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jamesp81 wrote...
88mphSlayer wrote...
jamesp81 wrote...
OK, folks, let me simplify for it you.
Replay ME1. Pay attention to Liara's comments on how strong Shepard's mind is. She specifically states, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard's mine is naturally very resistant to tampering or mental manipulation.
The writers have already answered the question posed in the OP.
great... how is his brain resistant to indoctrination from machines older than the human race again?
No idea. The writers chose not to explain it. I'm going with space magic.
ME3 ends 5 minutes after you start with Shepard being indoctrinated.
The End.
Seriously though, I'm fine with Shepard being "immune" to indoctrination just because it can create some great situation with the Reapers attempting to indoctrinate him.
It could also make a great "Locutus" moment.
#48
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 06:42
Skilled Seeker
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Being indoctrinated for a segment of the game wouldn't lead to railroading. Think outside the box people.
#49
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 06:55
Nathan Redgrave
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The Reaper isn't intentionally indoctrinating anyone--it's kind of, well... dead. It's emitting enough of a signal to indoctrinate over time, but Shepard's team was on board for all of fifteen minutes. They weren't sleeping and eating and spending their days researching or setting up equipment. Simply put, there wasn't time. The Cerberus research team was there a lot longer.
#50
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 06:57
Nathan Redgrave
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Oh, for the love of God, the beacon was a communications device, it has no bearing on the indoctrination topic at all. Cease this silly talk. If the Protheans had managed to create an anti-indoctrination device somehow, that would be quite some accomplishment.
Hell, Vigil even said they didn't know about indoctrination when they sent out the warning.
Hell, Vigil even said they didn't know about indoctrination when they sent out the warning.
