64 réponses à ce sujet

[AquamanOS]

Indoctrination is a subtle thing that slowly messes with you're head over time. Shepard and crew running through a Reaper for 20 minutes shooting everything and leaving isn't enough to get any hold on them.

As for why Shepard wasn't indoctrinated despite being lying next to Object Rho for two days. Again its a thing that slowly messes with you're head. It doesn't just flip you into brainwashed mode while you're asleep. And since Shepard was drugged, and therefore not consious, there was no way to mess with their thoughts.

[SalsaDMA]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Shepard isn't immune, that's ridiculous and there's nothing in the story to suggest so.

Grayson was almost immune, and that was even with reaper nanobots having been injected into him. It wasn't before he was drugged with red sand, and thus lost control of his mind, that the reapers were allowed to get a foothold in controlling him.

[LorDC]

Covane wrote...

 I dont know if this has been discussed, but I've been wondering about it for a while. The reaper can still indoctrinate, as seen with the cerberus science team. Is it one of Mordin's upgrades that allow's them to walk through safely? Thoughts?

The answer lies on the ship itself. Did you listen to crew logs? They obviously were able to work there at least few days before effects became noticeable. And Shepard were there for barely few hours.

[Nathan Redgrave]

AquamanOS wrote...

Indoctrination is a subtle thing that slowly messes with you're head over time. Shepard and crew running through a Reaper for 20 minutes shooting everything and leaving isn't enough to get any hold on them.

As for why Shepard wasn't indoctrinated despite being lying next to Object Rho for two days.

He wasn't "next to Object Rho." He was carted off to a seperate room and sedated. Project Base was a large complex, and it doesn't look like Shepard was anywhere near the artifact when he woke up.

They weren't trying to indoctrinate him, they were trying to hold him captive for the Reapers, who (through the Collectors) have already expressed interest in taking him both alive (Harbinger sometimes commands his drones to "Take Shepard alive if possible") and dead (Redemption).

[seirhart]

Indoctrination takes several days to weeks to work; and shepard and team were only on the derelect reaper for 20 to 30 minutes. Also shepard was no way near the reaper device after getting caught. 

[TheZanSnake]

I think indoctrination probably takes weeks or even month, but it based on the willingness and the mental strength of those that is in contact with the technology. We already know how strong willed Shepard is, and (s)he hasn't really been around that kind of technology long enough for the effect to cause any harm.

And i think (s)he is too strong willed to break in a matter of mere days. I see it as something like a pain threshold, some people can withstand more amount of pain then others.

[Covane]

jamesp81 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well he may have been indoctrinated in Arrival! Though that wouldn't make much sense if you do it early and then still go and attack the Collectors and fight the Reapers. Unless Bioware makes it canon that it's the last thing Shepard does in ME2.

Shepard's mind is extremely resistant to external forces, even before Cerberus gave him upgrades in Project Lazarus.  In ME1, Liara mentions very directly, on more than one occasion, that Shepard's mind was unbelievably resilient and that he would be naturally very difficult to manipulate mentally.

Shepard was not indoctrinated in Arrival.  He never will be indoctrinated.  The writers established lore very early that explains why he doesn't get indoctrinated.

What lore did they establish that in?

[illuminatus561]

I think indoctrination is all dependent upon the individual being exposed. Think of it like torture; eventually everyone breaks under it. The key is how long they can resist and knowing you are being subjected to it allows you to focus and resist a little more. Shepard's experiences, upbringing and mental strength allow him a greater resistance to brief encounters with indoctrination but that doesn't mean he is immune. It is likely that Bioware may add an indoctrination factor into ME3 and I think it would be pretty cool if they did. That wouldn't mean he hands over the citadel or let the universe get purged. They could have him search for a means to reverse the affects. Even if they didn't, it could just mean that Shepard hasn't reached his breaking point. Nothing has ever said he is 100% immune, just more resistant.

[jamesp81]

Covane wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well he may have been indoctrinated in Arrival! Though that wouldn't make much sense if you do it early and then still go and attack the Collectors and fight the Reapers. Unless Bioware makes it canon that it's the last thing Shepard does in ME2.

Shepard's mind is extremely resistant to external forces, even before Cerberus gave him upgrades in Project Lazarus.  In ME1, Liara mentions very directly, on more than one occasion, that Shepard's mind was unbelievably resilient and that he would be naturally very difficult to manipulate mentally.

Shepard was not indoctrinated in Arrival.  He never will be indoctrinated.  The writers established lore very early that explains why he doesn't get indoctrinated.

What lore did they establish that in?

In ME1 Liara mentions it directly in conversation.

Edit:

One of her exact quotes is "A lesser mind would've been utterly destroyed by all you've gone though.  You must be remarkably strong-willed."

The game also points out that strong willed individuals are less susceptible to indoctrination.  Personally, I think it's kind of obvious that the writers were setting Shepard up to have such a strong will that indoctrination doesn't work as easily on him as it does most.

I'm wanting to say there's more than just this in ME1, however, but I can't remember or find it on youtube at the moment.

Modifié par jamesp81, 19 mai 2011 - 09:24 .

[Sebby]

Shepard doesn't get indoctrinated because he IS a Reaper. Think about it, with just the power of his words he can turn a lifelong unrepentant criminal like Helena Blake into a social worker and get Saren to kill himself.

[Reapinger]

I'm just gonna point out that it took more than hours for the existing Cerberus crew to become indoctrinated.

[Dean_the_Young]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Shepard isn't immune, that's ridiculous and there's nothing in the story to suggest so.

Grayson was almost immune, and that was even with reaper nanobots having been injected into him. It wasn't before he was drugged with red sand, and thus lost control of his mind, that the reapers were allowed to get a foothold in controlling him.

Grayson was never immune, he was just holding out against the inevitable. Even the context of the story made clear that the red sand was a catalyst for his defeat now, rather than wait for later.

[Moiaussi]

The phase used was 'almost' immune. Would you prefer 'highly resistant?'