75 réponses à ce sujet

[RoninOmega]

To be honest, the small number of weapons in me2 was rediculous, however wasn't it confirmed that in me3 your actually going to be able to loot your enemies weapons?  Then this is either not a problem anymore, or we're going to see the same small amounts of weapons over and over until after we pass like 10 levels...(it's like finding the weapons you started out with over and over again until 10 levels is what im trying to get at here).

But not my point, point is with the modifications, now are we to expect only a small number, a little but near-acceptable amount, a fair amount, a reasonable amount, a generous amount, or a surplus amount?(Speaking in variety here).

[JeffZero]

I think we'll be getting a generous amount of possible mods for a fair (three, wasn't it?) amount of customizable parts. We'll probably see a more reasonable amount of weaponry overall because BioWare seems keen on responding to particular fan complaints.

I forecast a surplus amount of fairly reasonable and generous love.

[kill_switch_423]

Don't know about the number of mods, but it seems they're toting it to be on the larger side. Plus, you can sell weapons again so there must be plenty to spare.

[Whereto]

To be fair mass effect 1 didn't have that many weapons in it either. You had a bunch of reskins with slightly different statistics till you reached specter gear and they became laser guns. As much as me2 didn't have many guns, at least they all felt different. But as for ur post question. From the GI article, it is clear there is going to be four extra assault rilfles including the current ones, so I can imagine there will be more of everything. Unless of course those assault rilfes in the article were pure concept. But with this modification system, I'm sure they will have a few more guns onto of the original so your going to get very different feels along with the picked up enemy guns which should feel different with their own mods on them

[RoninOmega]

Whereto wrote...

To be fair mass effect 1 didn't have that many weapons in it either. You had a bunch of reskins with slightly different statistics till you reached specter gear and they became laser guns. As much as me2 didn't have many guns, at least they all felt different. But as for ur post question. From the GI article, it is clear there is going to be four extra assault rilfles including the current ones, so I can imagine there will be more of everything. Unless of course those assault rilfes in the article were pure concept. But with this modification system, I'm sure they will have a few more guns onto of the original so your going to get very different feels along with the picked up enemy guns which should feel different with their own mods on them

This is not a thread of which game was better, unique or not, it was still very ridiculous, sure the quality over quantity rule can apply to a lot of things, but there is a such thing as going overboard, and what good does it do if its so little?

Seriously I'm getting sick and tired of this overboard me2 defending all over the forum, ok so me1 also has its flaws in its weaponry, so what?  Me2's weapon amount was also a flaw as well, a HUGE ONE.  Did I say me1's weapon amount was better?  No, I was only asking for an improvement.  You guyes really need to stop thinking every me2 criticism is a comparison of the 1st game, sometimes we just think it's bad in general, and to be fair, at least me1 appealed to everyone in some big form, while me2 a lot of people felt left out, particularly the rpg fans.

Lol you may think me snapping at you was uncalled for, but it is only because you bringing up another me2-me1 comparison is also uncalled for.  No one asked for it.

Modifié par RoninOmega, 16 mai 2011 - 06:24 .

[javierabegazo]

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

Modifié par javierabegazo, 16 mai 2011 - 06:39 .

[Dave666]

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

I understand where you're coming from Jav but personally I prefered ME:1's style.  Yes, it was flawed, I'm not going to say it wasn't, but it would take surprisingly few changes to make it better really.  Instead of having I-X they could have skipped a few, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, you'd notice the changes more.  Same with the mods, and why in gods name did they not make them stack?  Bioware have been making RPG's for well over a decade, I should know I've been buying their games for about 12 years now so they know how to do that, just look at potions and arrows in BG2 for example.  I'll never understand how that seemed like a good idea.  If items stacked there'd be much less to scroll through and you could remove the 150 item limit and omnigel when you wanted rather than when you hit this imaginary limit.

Hopefully with the weapon Mods making a return, (even if in a new form) then we'll get back some measure of customization. *Prays fervently for the old style heat sinks mod option*

[InvaderErl]

There were 4 guns in ME1. Pistol/Shotgun/Sniper Rifle/ Assault Rifle.

That was it, every weapon in every class operated exactly the same aside from a completely linear stat progression system. Additionally there were only 2 models for every weapon class and a hell of a ton of basic reskins.

In ME2 every gun was unique and there was at least 4 Assault Rifles, there was at least 2 Pistols, there was at least 4 Heavy Weapons, there was at least 3 Shotguns, there was at least 3 Sniper Rifles, and there was at least 2 Submachine guns all of that prior to any DLC gear.

So yeah, ME1 having more guns? No.

Did they recycle and reskin more gear than ME2 did? Yes.

Dem's the facts.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 mai 2011 - 06:59 .

[javierabegazo]

Dave666 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

I understand where you're coming from Jav but personally I prefered ME:1's style.  Yes, it was flawed, I'm not going to say it wasn't, but it would take surprisingly few changes to make it better really.  Instead of having I-X they could have skipped a few, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, you'd notice the changes more.  Same with the mods, and why in gods name did they not make them stack?  Bioware have been making RPG's for well over a decade, I should know I've been buying their games for about 12 years now so they know how to do that, just look at potions and arrows in BG2 for example.  I'll never understand how that seemed like a good idea.  If items stacked there'd be much less to scroll through and you could remove the 150 item limit and omnigel when you wanted rather than when you hit this imaginary limit.

Hopefully with the weapon Mods making a return, (even if in a new form) then we'll get back some measure of customization. *Prays fervently for the old style heat sinks mod option*

GUI Problems with Inventory from ME1 aside, my main problem with The weapon system in ME1 was that aside from the actual weapon manufacturers, I didn't have a single connection to any weapon in the game, at all. I then played DAO, and found my connection to weapons to be mostly reliant on physical appearance. Then I played The Witcher (for the first time 3 days ago) and really found that I preferred the weapons in The Witcher to that of DAO. Then thinking back to ME2, I remember when ME2 first released, there were love threads of all things, devoted to one weapon or another.

Widow, Revenant, Avenger, Phalanx, Mattock, Carnifex, these names all mean something to me now, and they're as dear to me as any of the characters in the game.

In ME1, the only weapons I had any actual attachment to, were the Spectre X weapons, mainly because they functioned like how I felt weapons that far into the future should function.

Every time I play ME1, after I get out of the Citadel, I beat Pinnacle Station, and in Shep's apartment, save and reload until I get a Spectre X weapon from the Random weapon order terminal so I don't have to keep checking my inventory after every encounter.

I like loot, but make it interesting and not just waiting to see if there are any yellow bars or not on the Stats List

[Dave666]

InvaderErl wrote...

There were 4 guns in ME1. Pistol/Shotgun/Sniper Rifle/ Assault Rifle.

That was it, every weapon in every class operated exactly the same aside from a completely linear stat progression system. Additionally there were only 2 models for every weapon class and a hell of a ton of basic reskins.

In ME2 every gun was unique and there was at least 4 Assault Rifles, there was at least 2 Pistols, there was at least 4 Heavy Weapons, there was at least 3 Shotguns, there was at least 3 Sniper Rifles, and there was at least 2 Submachine guns all of that prior to any DLC gear.

So yeah, ME1 having more guns? No.

Did they recycle and reskin more gear than ME2 did? Yes.

Dem's the facts.

Seriously?  Thats your logic?  So the stat differences meant nothing at all?  You do realize that the mods in ME:3 are likely to amount to stat changes with weapons, right?  Swap in barrel 1 and the weapon now does more damage but fires slower, its now a different weapon because it acts differently than a weapon with barrel 2 which does less damage but fires faster.

[InvaderErl]

All the ME1 inventory involved in regards to the gun item progression was that you switch to the one with the higher stats when it comes up. There's almost no thinking involved at all.

And where did I say I was against the weapon mod system that we're getting for ME3? I'm all for it - I do feel confident however that they're not going to repeat the folly of the ME1 inventory's linear progression system and give us items that actually offer choice while not clogging us with Coolant Rod 1, Coolant Rod 2, Coolant Rod 3, Coolant Rod 4, etc. etc.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 mai 2011 - 07:11 .

[ObserverStatus]

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

[Dave666]

javierabegazo wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

I understand where you're coming from Jav but personally I prefered ME:1's style.  Yes, it was flawed, I'm not going to say it wasn't, but it would take surprisingly few changes to make it better really.  Instead of having I-X they could have skipped a few, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, you'd notice the changes more.  Same with the mods, and why in gods name did they not make them stack?  Bioware have been making RPG's for well over a decade, I should know I've been buying their games for about 12 years now so they know how to do that, just look at potions and arrows in BG2 for example.  I'll never understand how that seemed like a good idea.  If items stacked there'd be much less to scroll through and you could remove the 150 item limit and omnigel when you wanted rather than when you hit this imaginary limit.

Hopefully with the weapon Mods making a return, (even if in a new form) then we'll get back some measure of customization. *Prays fervently for the old style heat sinks mod option*

GUI Problems with Inventory from ME1 aside, my main problem with The weapon system in ME1 was that aside from the actual weapon manufacturers, I didn't have a single connection to any weapon in the game, at all. I then played DAO, and found my connection to weapons to be mostly reliant on physical appearance. Then I played The Witcher (for the first time 3 days ago) and really found that I preferred the weapons in The Witcher to that of DAO. Then thinking back to ME2, I remember when ME2 first released, there were love threads of all things, devoted to one weapon or another.

Widow, Revenant, Avenger, Phalanx, Mattock, Carnifex, these names all mean something to me now, and they're as dear to me as any of the characters in the game.

In ME1, the only weapons I had any actual attachment to, were the Spectre X weapons, mainly because they functioned like how I felt weapons that far into the future should function.

Every time I play ME1, after I get out of the Citadel, I beat Pinnacle Station, and in Shep's apartment, save and reload until I get a Spectre X weapon from the Random weapon order terminal so I don't have to keep checking my inventory after every encounter.

I like loot, but make it interesting and not just waiting to see if there are any yellow bars or not on the Stats List

As I said Jav, it certainly had its flaws, personally I think that the Spectre gear should only have been unlockable after you'd beaten the game on Insanity or something because it did make the other guns obsolete and given how quickly you could get them it kinda screwed up the inventory for almost all of the game.  I think for all of us the only memorable guns were the Spectre ones which is a shame really, all that work put into the other guns and they then kinda spoiled it by adding Spectre weapons so early.  Without those we probably would have favourite manufacturers.

Person X: I prefer Rosenkov for its higher damage (making stats up, but you get what I mean)

Person Y: Nah, I prefer the accuracy of Armax guns.

Person Z: I prefer Hadne-Kedars higher rate of fire.

[javierabegazo]

bobobo878 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

A "god weapon" isn't fun for me. Not in the least. I don't like getting "teh elite" weapon that makes everything else behind it obsolete. I like choice, not linear progression in damage options.

[Clonedzero]

bobobo878 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

but the only difference between the HMWAX was that it had crazy stats. it behaved EXACTLY like every single other assault rifle in ME1. its actually insanely lame that the HMWA X was the single best assault rifle. wouldnt it be FAR more interesting to have a couple of different guns you can fully customize and still have them all be effective? if i want to use teh burst fire vindicator why should i be forced to use the full auto avenger simply because it has better stats?

i don't understand why people keep saying ME1 had better weapons, there was pistols, shotguns, assault rifles and sniper rifles. everysingle shotgun was the same except for a color swap and different stats. in ME1 there was 4 weapons total with different colors and stat upgrades as you went through the game.

i'd rather have 4 assault rifles that function completely different than 100 that are all the same except for super minor stat changes. i want the avenger to feel different from the vindicator, i want the scimitar to feel different than the katana.

i want my weapons to actually feel unique and to give me a reason for picking one over the other aside from "this one has better stats". i dont want a clear "best weapon", i want to pick my weapons based on how i like them, not whats best.

[Cloaking_Thane]

I want to continue using my ME2 weapons actually, including my DLC weapons and be able to customize those...with maybe a few new weapons thrown in

[Dave666]

javierabegazo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

A "god weapon" isn't fun for me. Not in the least. I don't like getting "teh elite" weapon that makes everything else behind it obsolete. I like choice, not linear progression in damage options.

I take it that means that you don't use the Mattock?

@ Clonedzero, this isn't meant as an attack on you, but I really don't get this whole same weapons thing.  They looked different, they had different stats, they were different weapons.  I could just as easily say the same about ME:2's weapons you know, they changed the mesh and stats but they're all the same weapons.  See how silly it sounds?  Different stats on different weapons means by definition they're different weapons.

Modifié par Dave666, 16 mai 2011 - 01:15 .

[Whereto]

The mattock isn't necessarily the best assault rifle, it depends how you use the gun. I can get just as good results from the avenger when changing to a higher risk gameplay style. And wow op, you don't want to compare the games yet, this hole thread is devoted to the fact there wasn't enough guns in me2. Sure I agree there, but I'm simply stating that mass effect 1 had a lot of different weapons that were the exact same, so get over it I'm comparing the same features from different games cause it's a appropriate, not cause I'm saying or defending a game as a hole....

[Clonedzero]

Dave666 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

A "god weapon" isn't fun for me. Not in the least. I don't like getting "teh elite" weapon that makes everything else behind it obsolete. I like choice, not linear progression in damage options.

I take it that means that you don't use the Mattock?

@ Clonedzero, this isn't meant as an attack on you, but I really don't get this whole same weapons thing.  They looked different, they had different stats, they were different weapons.  I could just as easily say the same about ME:2's weapons you know, they changed the mesh and stats but they're all the same weapons.  See how silly it sounds?  Different stats on different weapons means by definition they're different weapons.

they look different and they have different stats, but if i turned around and you equipped a different assault rifle and put tape over where the gun is on the screen and i used it, i wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them, because they all behaved exactly the same.

if i modded ME1 and changed all the assault rifles to white and shared the same model. you could not tell the difference between them just by shooting them at the wall.

if i modded ME2 to make allt eh assault rifles white and shared the same model, you could easily tell the avenger from the vindicator from the revenant from the mattock. they all behave vastly different from each other and offer unique feel and style to them.

dont you see that?

[Dave666]

Clonedzero wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

For me, 100 shotguns that function the exact same, save for minor stat increases, will always be inferior to 4 shotguns that function differently. I think for a sci fi IP, ME2 took things in a better direction, and I think ME3 will polish it

That said, I'm immensely excited for ME3's Weapon Mod system

ME2 may have 6 kinds of assault rifles, but every one of them is inferior to the HMWA X.  That one had stopping power, accuracy, a quick fire rate, and infinite ammo.

A "god weapon" isn't fun for me. Not in the least. I don't like getting "teh elite" weapon that makes everything else behind it obsolete. I like choice, not linear progression in damage options.

I take it that means that you don't use the Mattock?

@ Clonedzero, this isn't meant as an attack on you, but I really don't get this whole same weapons thing.  They looked different, they had different stats, they were different weapons.  I could just as easily say the same about ME:2's weapons you know, they changed the mesh and stats but they're all the same weapons.  See how silly it sounds?  Different stats on different weapons means by definition they're different weapons.

they look different and they have different stats, but if i turned around and you equipped a different assault rifle and put tape over where the gun is on the screen and i used it, i wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them, because they all behaved exactly the same.

if i modded ME1 and changed all the assault rifles to white and shared the same model. you could not tell the difference between them just by shooting them at the wall.

if i modded ME2 to make allt eh assault rifles white and shared the same model, you could easily tell the avenger from the vindicator from the revenant from the mattock. they all behave vastly different from each other and offer unique feel and style to them.

dont you see that?

I'll grant you that in ME:2 the weapons have different visuals and different sound effects, but things like damage and fire rate are just stats which you have dismissed, hell even ammo capacity is another type of stat.

ME:1's weapons did have differences though, how many shots before overheating?  How accurate are they?  How much damage do they do?

I'm not and never have stated that ME:1 was better than ME:2, I prefer ME:1 but thats a subjective opinion.

[Nohvarr]

Dave666 wrote...

I'll grant you that in ME:2 the weapons have different visuals and different sound effects, but things like damage and fire rate are just stats which you have dismissed, hell even ammo capacity is another type of stat.

ME:1's weapons did have differences though, how many shots before overheating?  How accurate are they?  How much damage do they do?

But the moment you pull the trigger, ME 1 weapons act the same. When I pull the trigger on the Avenger, I get a steady stream of fire that begins to grow more inaccurate the longer I spray. WHen I pull the trigger on the Vindicator I get am accurate three shot burst, and when I fire the Mattock, I get a single, highly accurate highly powerful shot. None of the weapons in ME 1 show that diverse a firing characteristic. They all shoot the same, with no difference in personality.

If Bioware had given you an Avenger in ME 1 and said "the only way to improve it is via buying upgrades and mods" and never let you buy another gun, it wouldn't have been that different from what they actually did in ME 1.
Buying a new weapon was paying for an upgrade in ME 1, not a weapon that did the same job in a different fashion.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 16 mai 2011 - 02:04 .

[DieBySword]

InvaderErl wrote...

There were 4 guns in ME1. Pistol/Shotgun/Sniper Rifle/ Assault Rifle.

That was it, every weapon in every class operated exactly the same aside from a completely linear stat progression system. Additionally there were only 2 models for every weapon class and a hell of a ton of basic reskins.

In ME2 every gun was unique and there was at least 4 Assault Rifles, there was at least 2 Pistols, there was at least 4 Heavy Weapons, there was at least 3 Shotguns, there was at least 3 Sniper Rifles, and there was at least 2 Submachine guns all of that prior to any DLC gear.

So yeah, ME1 having more guns? No.

Did they recycle and reskin more gear than ME2 did? Yes.

Dem's the facts.

I dont know if you realize that the ME1 guns work different to the ME2 guns because in the first your weapon overheated depending on the use whille in the second you are bound to ammo limits even if they say its changing the overheated clip. On that thing alone you cant compare the weapons you need to take all the thing that made the weapon system from ME1 and ME2 together first.

In ME1 AR fired the full-auto always the same way but it was the player who decided what type of play he wanted. Full-auto till it overheated, semi-burst to keep it acurate and last loger or one-two shots. Depending on the mods you could make a full-auto low-damage but more shots rifle or semi-burst high-damage but low number of shots weapon. Depending on the manufacurer the Damage/Overhate/Acc changed and version from I-X made the guns more powerfull,accurate and less overheat prone. Not forgeting different manufacturer had different color themes and even different model designs or way the gunshot looked.

in ME2 we have only 3-4 models (not counting dlc) that look different in design and offer different ammo count,fire rate and damage the same way mods did in ME1 but now its set in stone we cant customize it further. The reaserch station upgrades the damage/accurancy the same way the I-X types did.

ME2 did it right in the way of getting rid of the inventory problem of omni-geling the unused guns but it made the choice of guns smaller. IT took away the mods that made us customize the weapons and the biggest flaw it took away the uniqnes off overheating weapons for a limited ammo counter.

[Minister of Sound]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

Don't know about the number of mods, but it seems they're toting it to be on the larger side. Plus, you can sell weapons again so there must be plenty to spare.

Wait, what? We can sell weapons again? If that's true, then I'll quote Fester Shinetop from the Secret of Monkey Island:

"You know, this might turn out to be a pretty good day."

[kregano]

Minister of Sound wrote...

kill_switch_423 wrote...

Don't know about the number of mods, but it seems they're toting it to be on the larger side. Plus, you can sell weapons again so there must be plenty to spare.

Wait, what? We can sell weapons again? If that's true, then I'll quote Fester Shinetop from the Secret of Monkey Island:

"You know, this might turn out to be a pretty good day."

Good luck racking up cash when any street punk on Omega can get the Shuriken for less than a hundred credits

[Phaedon]

Whereto wrote...

To be fair mass effect 1 didn't have that many weapons in it either. You had a bunch of reskins with slightly different statistics till you reached specter gear and they became laser guns. As much as me2 didn't have many guns, at least they all felt different.

ME1 has essentially three and less models for each weapon type, all of which offer no diverse gameplay at all.