233 réponses à ce sujet

[Grissium]

Also I was at full Paragon points, I did not save the council. In Mass Effect 2 when I went to visit Captain Anderson he reinstated my Spectre status. So you can still make the Renegade decision and get that back, and has Anderson said, little good it did me

[K3lg4r]

The only times I can remember Paragons losing something by making the "good" decision is in the first ME1 dlc when you have to chose between saving the hostages or catching the terrorist...I have to say it was one of the hardest decisions in ME1 and one of the moments I enjoyed the most cause for once Paragons don't get to save the hostages and catch the criminals.
Zaeed's mission was interesting too, I decided to save the workers and even though at the end I still managed to get his loyalty, I felt sorry watching Vido escape.
More missions should be like those two.

tjzsf wrote...

Partial solution for minor things like sidequests and cameos: neutral options give equal numbers of paragon/renegade points, instead of just no points at all.

this is a good idea.
I liked how in ME2 some situations had only blue or red dialogue options and not both. By giving half-half to neutrals they still won't be able to take care of the hardest situations but at least they'll get to handle situations a full paragon/renegade won't be able to.

[Bostur]

I think in general the Paragon/Renegade system feels too bipolar. It's also devoid of context, renegade towards whom?

I miss being able to make sensible choices or in-character choices, instead I end up guessing red or blue. I think it would be better to make storyline choices than trying to stack red or blue points, it just feels separated from the setting.

Paragon feels more natural, in many cases the renegade route feels more like dumb choices than aggressive or direct choices.

Modifié par Bostur, 16 mai 2011 - 08:46 .

[Shifty Assassin]

To be fair there are most likely some bad consequences for a paragon we cant foresee like how saving the rachni queen can make them slaves to the reapers since it is confirmed there are going to be indoctrinated rachni enemies

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

Renegades are Type V.

Here's a example from that site, about Mass Effect.

Tropes wrote...

Renegade Shepard of Mass Effect is, for the most part, Type IV during Mass Effect 1, but by Mass Effect 2, he/she can murder one of his/her squadmates and replace her with a Complete Monster, murder an unarmed (albeit assholish) bystander, and happily ignore the pleas of those burning in a factory to help one of his/her squadmates score his revenge.

[Bozorgmehr]

Arcian wrote...

Protip: Because realistically no one would ever punish a kind and helpful person who actually follows the laws instead of breaking them.

What law? And who gives a damn anyway? The freaking universe is at the brink of being destroyed and you're interested in the law - like it's some sort of divine object? Ever heard of something called priorities?

I'm sorry that's not "cool" enough for you 12 year old babies who like to burn down orphanages, rob banks and punch pregnant women in the stomach for fun, but that's how it is.

You clearly played a rather different version of ME than I did. But I think it's pointless to go into this any further considering you obviously don't understand that things are never black and white or good versus evil or whatever.

[marshalleck]

Arcian wrote...

*renegades act like douchebags, kill people to the left and right, help criminals and terrorists and suffer the realistic consequences for this*
Renegades: Why.jpg, why am I being punished for this?
*paragons help people and stay on the right side of the law*
Renegades: Why aren't they being punished?

Protip: Because realistically no one would ever punish a kind and helpful person who actually follows the laws instead of breaking them.

I'm sorry that's not "cool" enough for you 12 year old babies who like to burn down orphanages, rob banks and punch pregnant women in the stomach for fun, but that's how it is.

The profit from being a renegade is that you can be a complete ass without being sentenced to prison IRL - pure catharsis value to vent frustration and anger. That doesn't mean the game's story is going to reward you and pat you on the back for this, especially when it includes petty murder, omnidirectional douchebaggery, overtly criminal behavior, rampant corruption and willing cooperation with a terrorist group known for their ruthlessness and chronic backstabbing disorder.

I mean, really? Despite all this, you expect some kind of reward?

Renegades are Type V.

You are not heroes. People don't like you.

What a waste of time this post is. The point is, renegade actions often result in plot thread dead ends. There is no effect felt from your actions--just a bunch of missing content. There's no reason you couldn't encounter someone tied to an ME1 subplot who gives you some information on what happened with X criminal organization since you killed their leader or whatever. But that never happens. There's just nothing. 

[CroGamer002]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

What law? And who gives a damn anyway? The freaking universe is at the brink of being destroyed and you're interested in the law - like it's some sort of divine object? Ever heard of something called priorities?

How many people know about Reapers in both Mass Effect 1 and 2?

You clearly played a rather different version of ME than I did. But I think it's pointless to go into this any further considering you obviously don't understand that things are never black and white or good versus evil or whatever.

Why would I ever kill Shiala with exception of being complete dick?
Also why I wouldn't push that survivor in Jacob's LM?

Those are just 2 examples.

[Jebel Krong]

marshalleck wrote...

What a waste of time this post is. The point is, renegade actions often result in plot thread dead ends. There is no effect felt from your actions--just a bunch of missing content. There's no reason you couldn't encounter someone tied to an ME1 subplot who gives you some information on what happened with X criminal organization since you killed their leader or whatever. But that never happens. There's just nothing. 

not really dead-ends as there's always more criminals to kill, but you do end up with more hats on the floor. tbh i play only renegades now and i enjoy it a lot more, but that doesn't mean i take every renegade decision whilst i'm at it, just because it's there - some of them are dumb, some make you sound pretty dumb, so i don't take those.

anyway the galaxy is a huge place, the chances of running into the same people again (& again) are slim at best.

[CroGamer002]

marshalleck wrote...

What a waste of time this post is. The point is, renegade actions often result in plot thread dead ends. There is no effect felt from your actions--just a bunch of missing content. There's no reason you couldn't encounter someone tied to an ME1 subplot who gives you some information on what happened with X criminal organization since you killed their leader or whatever. But that never happens. There's just nothing. 

Missing POINTLESS content, even though you still get Conrad, Gianna( hard to know how to kill her) and Helena Blake( just take her money).

Also for the Council I'm more happy on that "missing" content since I don't get "Ah yes, Reapers" and I get to talk with Anderson more AND hearing Cold War between Alliance and Turians makes Mass Effect universe more realistic.

[marshalleck]

Jebel Krong wrote...

anyway the galaxy is a huge place, the chances of running into the same people again (& again) are slim at best.

And yet it happens all the time for Paragons, which is obviously the correct and intended way to play the game. 

[Jebel Krong]

 i killed gianna - she was so annoying removing everyone from that equation was the only way forward....  shiala was hot so she got to live, however. (yes i can be a shallow renegade too).

marshalleck wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

anyway the galaxy is a huge place, the chances of running into the same people again (& again) are slim at best.

And yet it happens all the time for Paragons, which is obviously the correct and intended way to play the game. 

faulty logic is faulty. it doesn't make it "correct" it is, however, easier to throw in the same character again as a little side-line than do a new one all the time, to add a little more depth to places, and some familiarity - it's a game after all, not a life-sim. does it make it the "correct way to play the game?" no - because if anything important happens there's always an alternative for the other moral side.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 16 mai 2011 - 09:58 .

[CroGamer002]

marshalleck wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

anyway the galaxy is a huge place, the chances of running into the same people again (& again) are slim at best.

And yet it happens all the time for Paragons, which is obviously the correct and intended way to play the game. 

Modifié par Mesina2, 16 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[Someone With Mass]

You know, you can be Renegade without killing people. That much.
Just like how I can be Renegade without siding with those retarded pro-human groups.
It's completely optional.

[marshalleck]

Mesina2 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

anyway the galaxy is a huge place, the chances of running into the same people again (& again) are slim at best.

And yet it happens all the time for Paragons, which is obviously the correct and intended way to play the game. 

Not entirely serious, no. Sarcasm certainly is not the highest form of wit, but it appears lost on you nonetheless. 

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You know, you can be Renegade without killing people. That much.
Just like how I can be Renegade without siding with those retarded pro-human groups.
It's completely optional.

 Cool. I don't know why you're mentioning that, since it answers a question nobody asked. 

[Someone With Mass]

Many people are whining over something so trivial and easily solvable, that's all.

[TheBlackBaron]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You know, you can be Renegade without killing people. That much.
Just like how I can be Renegade without siding with those retarded pro-human groups.
It's completely optional.

Nope. Evidently, if you're not running around eating babies, burning down orphanages, and killing every civilan in sight, you're not playing Rengade "properly". 

Or so it would seem, to listen some of these jackasses that didn't get the memo about this not being KotOR, and not being the easily-pideonholed Light Side/Dark Side dichotomy. No, this is an entirely different pidgeonholeable system, where there is at least theoretically no good and no evil. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 16 mai 2011 - 10:10 .

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Many people are whining over something so trivial and easily solvable, that's all.

Sure, if they go back and make decisions they don't want to make because it would contradict whatever reasons they had for making said decisions in the first place. 

I mean, that's kind of like telling people to just ignore a problem instead of discuss why they think it's a problem, and how they'd like it fixed in the next game. Hell it's like Mike Laidlaw telling people who don't like the combat in DA2 to play on Hard--pretty much useless, and utterly missing the point. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 mai 2011 - 10:13 .

[Seboist]

Renegade decisions are clearly the alternate reality troll outcomes as evidenced by the keep the CB decision outcome. EVERY single squadmate who favored keeping it has a complete mind break and scolds Shepard for being an idiot back on the Normandy.

[marshalleck]

So let me see if I can paraphrase the last few pages of this thread:

Renegade player: "Hmm, kinda disappointing that I couldn't interact with the all-human Council. I would have liked an opportunity to speak with them in person, like you can with the old Council."

Paragon player: *herp* "Well if you want to talk to an all-human Council so bad maybe you should have saved the Council in ME1 you moron!" *derp*
Renegade player: "... you've got to ****ing kidding me. :huh:"

Modifié par marshalleck, 16 mai 2011 - 10:32 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Mesina2 wrote...

How many people know about Reapers in both Mass Effect 1 and 2?

Uh, the only one who matters - Shepard / You!

Why would I ever kill Shiala with exception of being complete dick?
Also why I wouldn't push that survivor in Jacob's LM?

Those are just 2 examples.

The Jacob's LM example is lame, not saving the survivor isn't considered a Renegade action anyway.

Not killing the Rachni Queen who has (nearly) killed a colony and likely will try again (there is no clue whatsoever she won't) is Paragon? It's GOOD to let mass murderers go free if they play nice when they feel that's the only way to get out of a situations alive? Sounds like Paragons are fools to me - believing this kind of nonsense

You think it's GOOD to save a couple of workers while capturing or killing the leader of one of the most notorious merc groups - who's likely to setup a new base with new workers the next day - is BAD?

The ME Paragon values a single life over genocide - the ME Renegade will sacrifice a single soul to save many others. Technically, Renegades are the real good guys b/c in my book saving 100 and killing one beats saving one which results in a 100 others dying.

Priorities, my friend, priorities