101 réponses à ce sujet

[DancesWithScions]

"bye bye boobies, bye bye boobies, bye bye boobies cuz I'm a big kid now.."- might be relevant... well I don't mind that they wouldn't show us some skin, but yes , they could have shown us a little longer romance scene, give it a longer screen time. Love is important, after all , as far as -we- know, hawke found her/his special other half after couple of years, it is only fitting to make the scene extra special! -slightly spoilerish- as I recall, even aveline got her scene of noises amd giggles, and hawke is the main protagonist! Something to think about..

[Plaintiff]

Fieryeel wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Fieryeel wrote...
So what was the point of showing those scenes with shirtless characters as screenshots before the game was released?

Other than to outright mislead and scam us into thinking there was gonna be sex and nudity, I don't see any other reason.

David Gaider said he had planned on/ asked for a shirtless Fenris scene but it got cut due to development time.

Is this really something to complain about?  Man, some people are really into their pixel pecs.

Yes it's something to complain about because they advertised it in the first place. I wouldn't have cared much if those screenshots never surfaced. If there wasn't going to be naked sexy time, then Bioware/EA should have jolly well stated so, instead of posting screenshots showing naked romance scenes to get our hopes up.

Also, this is not just about Fenris. Naked Merrill with MaleHawke, as well as Isabella in underwear playing with Hawke in underwear on the bed was also shown.

You know that this sort of thing happens all the time, right? Particularly with movies. Particular scenes get shown in trailers on occasion that wind up getting cut out just prior to release. Those screenshots came out ages before the game was available to buy and it would've still been getting worked on after they were discovered. Cassandra had white hair in the original trailers as well, and in the demo for the game, the dialogues between her and Varric are noticably different.

It's an extremely minor grievance. You haven't lost anything of significance.

[Addai]

Fieryeel wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Uh, okay... as long as you know how pathetic that sounds.

No I don't. You might wanna get off your high horse and educate me about it.

You're complaining you didn't get your naked pixel sex.  If you feel no sense of pathetic about that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Fast Jimmy]

JordanDH wrote...

No one's saying have everyone walk around naked the entire time.

I am!

[In Exile]

I think nudity looks really, really silly in a video-game. I've seen some of the scenes from TW2 now and it's... funny. I actually burst out laughing at one point.

[Fieryeel]

Plaintiff wrote...

You know that this sort of thing happens all the time, right? Particularly with movies. Particular scenes get shown in trailers on occasion that wind up getting cut out just prior to release. Those screenshots came out ages before the game was available to buy and it would've still been getting worked on after they were discovered. Cassandra had white hair in the original trailers as well, and in the demo for the game, the dialogues between her and Varric are noticably different.

It's an extremely minor grievance. You haven't lost anything of significance.

Just because scenes get cut out from trailers sometimes doesn't mean we should convinently ignore Bioware/EA doing so. If customers are going to be scammed through fake scenes in trailers, then the company doesn't deserve to have its products purchased. King Kong 2005 tried that stunt. I never bought its DVD, and advised others not to. We should strive towards advertisments that do not lie, instead of closing one eye and saying, "Oh hey other companies do this all the time..."

Cassandra having white hair, or her dialogue being different with Varric is simply a re-design, not something that was thrown in to trick us. Varric's dialogue with her can still be seen in the game files and found on youtube, which means yes it was truly in the game, then taken out because Bioware felt the speech didn't make sense.

Addai67 wrote...

You're complaining you didn't get your naked pixel sex.  If you feel no sense of pathetic about that, I don't know what to tell you.

There is something pathetic about seeing two consenting adults in love having sex?

How old are you?

[WeRtheBrox]

Fieryeel wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

You're complaining you didn't get your naked pixel sex.  If you feel no sense of pathetic about that, I don't know what to tell you.

There is something pathetic about seeing two consenting adults in love having sex?

How old are you?

Addai, I can't decide if Fieryeel is accusing you of being an immature child or an old fuddy-duddy. 

Fieryeel, there is nothing pathetic about watching two consenting adults in love having sex.  There is something pathetic about complaining about not watching two consenting adults in love having sex.

In a game.

[Plaintiff]

Fieryeel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You know that this sort of thing happens all the time, right? Particularly with movies. Particular scenes get shown in trailers on occasion that wind up getting cut out just prior to release. Those screenshots came out ages before the game was available to buy and it would've still been getting worked on after they were discovered. Cassandra had white hair in the original trailers as well, and in the demo for the game, the dialogues between her and Varric are noticably different.

It's an extremely minor grievance. You haven't lost anything of significance.

Just because scenes get cut out from trailers sometimes doesn't mean we should convinently ignore Bioware/EA doing so. If customers are going to be scammed through fake scenes in trailers, then the company doesn't deserve to have its products purchased. King Kong 2005 tried that stunt. I never bought its DVD, and advised others not to. We should strive towards advertisments that do not lie, instead of closing one eye and saying, "Oh hey other companies do this all the time..."

Cassandra having white hair, or her dialogue being different with Varric is simply a re-design, not something that was thrown in to trick us. Varric's dialogue with her can still be seen in the game files and found on youtube, which means yes it was truly in the game, then taken out because Bioware felt the speech didn't make sense.

It's not a "lie". Those screenshots/trailer scenes were released months, if not a year prior to the release of the final procduct, with every intention of including them. No intelligent filmmaker wastes their time with scenes they don't intend to use.

How come altering hair colour or dialogue is a redesign, but replacing nudity with clothing is a 'trick'?

[Rifneno]

WeRtheBrox wrote...

Fieryeel, there is nothing pathetic about watching two consenting adults in love having sex.  There is something pathetic about complaining about not watching two consenting adults in love having sex.

In a game.

I don't think it's so much that people are angry they don't get to see cartoon sex.  I think it's about censorship.  It's ridiculous when you can show so much blood and gore that you get desensitized to it because there's so much you can't take it seriously, while at the same time it's taboo to show a breast.

[Fieryeel]

Plaintiff wrote...
It's not a "lie". Those screenshots/trailer scenes were released months, if not a year prior to the release of the final procduct, with every intention of including them. No intelligent filmmaker wastes their time with scenes they don't intend to use.

How come altering hair colour or dialogue is a redesign, but replacing nudity with clothing is a 'trick'?

Because of the implications.

Showing scenes of naked characters in an intimate setting implies an undressed sex scene.

Showing Cassandra with white hair........implies nothing? No one's gonna go saying, "Hey wtf?! I thought Cassandra was supposed to be old. How dare you Bioware, grrrrrr!"

Varric's changed dialogues with Cassandra can still be retrieved from the game, all the more proving that yes, the scenes were made, but changed because Bioware felt they didn't fit the storyline.

[Anchor5]

I'm only bothered by the fact that if we were talking about a hollywood movie, it would be a completely different situation. If a profound movie had nudity, or even sex, it could win an oscar, but if it's a video game, even one as profound as dragon age, then it gets pulled from the shelves. Maybe one day people will truly take video games seriously as a creative medium, but issues like this give me the impression that we're still stuck in the 'tetris' age of gaming.

[Anchor5]

And don't rag on Fieryeel for wanting sex/nudity in the game. For a lot of people, sex is part of the appeal of mature fantasy, just as much as magic and dragons. The only difference is that magic and dragons are make-believe, and yet we're the ones spending 100+ hours just to kill every dragon and master every spell. I'm sure to a lot of non-gamers we all seem pretty pathetic. Sex is real, it's relatable, and it makes the story that much more believable, even though we know none of it is real.

[HogarthHughes 3]

I would rather have the fade to black stuff than the cringe-worthy Origins dry humping. Sure, it could be done in a manner that was watchable, like in Spartacus (perhaps not the best example given that its practically soft-core porn at times, but I just watched an episode so it was the first thing I thought of concerning sex in television/movies).

But look at the animations in game. Unfortunately Bioware isn't Rockstar North when it comes to character animations. Most of the dialogue is just accentuated with the same hand wringing over and over, with little deviation. Not to mention the walking animation in cutscenes is the same for both genders, which looks pretty awkward for F!Hawke. Even the sitting animation looks wrong, like something is pulling Hawke down onto the chair.

My point is, they obviously have plenty of work to do in other areas of the game, why spend time on a sex scene that could easily turn out horribly?

[SilentK]

Hmm... I really loved the romance-scenes. Merrill was the first LI that I romanced and she was wonderful sometimes it's the little things that does it for me. Like how Hawke looks down after Fenris says that it was fine. I prefer this to the old version in DA:O.

[TheRevanchist]

I thought the entierty of DA2 was cringe worthy...but the "romance" scenes was pretty high on the list. Imo it don't get better than ME1...I think thats what it should be for M rated games. It don't show enough to get the dreaded A/O rating...yet it shows enough so people don't either cringe or laugh outrageously. Bioware can say whatever they want in their own defence...but their simply too scared to do that again and sadly the quality suffers because of morons who didn't do research.

[JamesMoriarty123]

bleetman wrote...

Remember: Internal organs good. External organs bad. Don't even mention them, lest you draw the ire of the Fox News crowd.

Decapitation is apparently more acceptable to depict than breasts, for some reason I've yet to decipher. People are weird.

So true, buddy. I really don't get the big deal on prudish censorship. ME's romance was tastefully done. The best Bioware have ever done tbh.

I mean we all see the "naughty" bits of our opposite genders throughout our life, but not all of us will actually behead someone or condemn a child to an eternity of torment by a demon or kill some unfortunate starving soul for his key when all he asked for was some food.

[zvbxrpl]

I'm neither here nor there on the idea of nudity in sex scenes. I'm leaning a little toward ME1-like scenes. That being said, I'm sort of baffled on why an M rating on a video game is somehow so different from an R rating on a movie.

[Plaintiff]

kylecouch wrote...

I thought the entierty of DA2 was cringe worthy...but the "romance" scenes was pretty high on the list. Imo it don't get better than ME1...I think thats what it should be for M rated games. It don't show enough to get the dreaded A/O rating...yet it shows enough so people don't either cringe or laugh outrageously. Bioware can say whatever they want in their own defence...but their simply too scared to do that again and sadly the quality suffers because of morons who didn't do research.

Okay, someone explain to me, please, how nudity, or the lack thereof, improves quality or makes a scene less "cringe-worthy", because I seriously don't get it.

The "sex" in Origins consisted of ugly body models engaging in awkward softcore grinding. I've not played ME, but considering it came out even earlier, I find it hard to believe that they were any less awful to watch.

I consider the DA II scenes a vast improvement and I very much believe it was an issue of aesthetics, rather than censorship, that drove them to make the decision they did.

[Ambiva]

Death and gore are far more horrific sights to inflict on a young mind than nudity and sex. But that is the contradictory culture.

[Sanarion]

Forumites, I'd like to go on a tangent asking it EA was really behind this...considering they did the Dante's Inferno "Sin to Win" marketing thing, and the "Your Mom Will Hate it" for Dead Space 2, I'm not sure FoxNews pressure, or anything like that would be a motivator for them. I could see it influencing Bioware, but EA seems to delight in Free Publicity. I'd be more tempted to chalk it up to either a lack of time on Bioware's part (My personal catch-all for the game's flaws,) or an Artistic choice, meant to avoid exactly the sort of criticism DAO had for the rather silly dry humping.

I'd love any DEV input, though I can see how it would be unlikely, but I'd frankly be mollified if you explained that it was an artistic choice for X reasons. We're mostly mature adults. I think we can handle it.

[lobi]

Sanarion wrote...

Forumites, I'd like to go on a tangent asking it EA was really behind this...considering they did the Dante's Inferno "Sin to Win" marketing thing, and the "Your Mom Will Hate it" for Dead Space 2, I'm not sure FoxNews pressure, or anything like that would be a motivator for them. I could see it influencing Bioware, but EA seems to delight in Free Publicity. I'd be more tempted to chalk it up to either a lack of time on Bioware's part (My personal catch-all for the game's flaws,) or an Artistic choice, meant to avoid exactly the sort of criticism DAO had for the rather silly dry humping.

I'd love any DEV input, though I can see how it would be unlikely, but I'd frankly be mollified if you explained that it was an artistic choice for X reasons. We're mostly mature adults. I think we can handle it.

Of course EA has had words with the devs and told them nerf the sex and, no toolset.
Just once I would like to get a decent nude mod that does not include stiff willies outside of sex scenes.

Modifié par lobi, 19 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[Addai]

Rifneno wrote...

WeRtheBrox wrote...

Fieryeel, there is nothing pathetic about watching two consenting adults in love having sex.  There is something pathetic about complaining about not watching two consenting adults in love having sex.

In a game.

I don't think it's so much that people are angry they don't get to see cartoon sex.  I think it's about censorship.  It's ridiculous when you can show so much blood and gore that you get desensitized to it because there's so much you can't take it seriously, while at the same time it's taboo to show a breast.

There's some economy there and some aesthetics.  A naked model, as I understand it, is an entirely different body model, an underwear model is separate, and then you have the clothed/ armored model.  So they cut out one of those, and I'm glad they cut the nekkid.  I don't care to see the danglies every time I do an armor change.  It's not important to have naked sex scenes.  If you want that, there's tons of porn just a click away.  In a game those scenes have a good chance to end up cringeworthy and are hard to animate without clipping.  Even as it is, the kisses have animation line-up issues.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 mai 2011 - 01:23 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Okay, someone explain to me, please, how nudity, or the lack thereof, improves quality or makes a scene less "cringe-worthy", because I seriously don't get it.

The "sex" in Origins consisted of ugly body models engaging in awkward softcore grinding. I've not played ME, but considering it came out even earlier, I find it hard to believe that they were any less awful to watch.

I consider the DA II scenes a vast improvement and I very much believe it was an issue of aesthetics, rather than censorship, that drove them to make the decision they did.

Actually, the ME1 sex scenes were all really well done. No nudity, but definitely very suggestive and intimate. If you want, you can see them all on YouTube, I believe. Which is a testament to how un-porn like they were, despite the reactions of conservative groups about them, who condemened them without even seeing them before.

I agree with the aesthetics comment as well, though. I believe its more of an issue of it being very hard to have two computer generated models realistically move and interact with each other, even in something as simple as kissing, let alone actual disrobement.

[SilentK]

I think that Fenris-wall-kiss-scene is wonderful, it completely gripped me the first time I got it. It's great! And I love the cuddling with Merrill, and Anders passionate kiss. And Isabella is fun. Wow, my Hawkes do get a round. For me to be happy there doesn't have to be nudity, I care more about the emotions. Hmmm... I can't see how they could be cringe-worthy. What was horrible about hugging and cuddling with Merrill. Or like I mentioned Fenris-wall-kiss.

As a ME1 player, there is some nudity on my F!Sheps part when she gets into the bed with Kaidan, no full frontal but you see her naked from the side. If you romance Liara that female body is blue, and if you romance Ash it's the same female body seen naked from the side.

I would rate DA2 above ME1 but that's just personal opinion =) I like it that the scenes are more varied in DA2. There is a bigger difference in how the scenes with Merrill and Izzy plays versus difference between Liara and Ash. Of course one can like ME1 more but I like DA2 much more.

[be Realistic]

each scene is unique
i will agree with u on that