179 réponses à ce sujet

[jpace335]

gateway, I did not ask Bioware to chuck out romances. That is completely wrong. I simply wanted to know how important it was to you. And by the way, it is definitely not a main factor. It is a plot supplement.

[jpace335]

ninja, I'm not perceiving a drastic conclusion. ME2 showed signs of things to come in terms of much more heavy emphasis on romance.

[Ghostjs]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

N7Armada wrote...

Fact is have you ever watched a giant blockbuster action movie without a romance. Has never happened in history. Especially sic-fi, it adds dimension, gives you something personal to fight for, and the best part if you don't like it, Don't Have One. Brilliant

Terminator 2

Actually Terminator 2 had the Bromance between a boy and his killer robot.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I keep saying the wrong thing when trying to talk about this topic... let's see if I can get it right this time. First, the best and worst case scenarios for opening up old love interests to different genders.

Best Case Scenario:
Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
 This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

So far, all romances in Bioware games have been at least somewhat unavoidable, and the more avoidable they are, the more people complain of them being shallow. A lot of people were "ninjaromanced" by the ME1 romances, but some ME2 players complain that their new partners aren't as open about their affections as the ME1 romances were... these new, more hidden romances feel less "deep." Also, there were a lot of complaints in ME2 about FemShepard's attitude toward Jacob. He didn't hit on her, the problem was that her hitting on him felt out-of-character. So not only do we have to be careful about not making the LIs too flirty, we also have to sorry about not making Shepard too flirty. It's a minefield.

Now, I have a Femshep infiltrator who would love to dump Liara for Tali. And I have a female friend who literally refuses to play Mass Effect if she can't play a dude-romancin' dude. So new same sex romances for old characters is A-OK in my book.  I just hope they're done in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive.

But then I feel bad about saying THAT, because one of my favorite romances in ME1 was Kaidan's deep, flirty, inexorable romance. I like it when my fictional dates hit on me, and segregating all romances behind a "Pick this heart icon to initiate ROMANCE MODE" barrier will limit that sort-of-half-flirty banter thing you got with Kaidan. Ideally, there would be some way to express slight interest early on, without "locking in" to romance mode. After you've expressed the slight interest, your LI could become more openly flirty. After that, you can either shut them down or initiate ROMANCE MODE. This way you can have all that flirty buildup, and possibly have it with multiple characters (my infiltrator would love to flirt with Kaidan, Liara, and Tali simultaneously), but then lock in SERIOUS romance with one of them.



Example: say Joker becomes a new Bi love interest. When talking with him, you have an opportunity to say "Do you like Gladiator movies" to which he will respond "Have you ever seen a grown man naked" Then Shepard can respond with "I'm all about seeing grown men naked (flirty response)" or "Have you ever been in a Turkish Prison? (bro response)" And yes, I assume that 200 years from now people will still be quoting Airplane.

More seriously, here's how the dialogue for Tali could go down:
Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"
Femshep options:
-They reminded me of you
-Somebody I liked at the time
-None of your business

If you tell Tali that your first kiss reminded you of her, she'll be flirtier from then on. She'll have the "Interest" flag checked, but not the romance flag. If you give either of the other responses, she won't flirt. Later, you'll have another dialogue with her if you've engaged flirty mode, where she'll outright ask you out, and you can say yes or turn her down.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 01:11 .

[theSteeeeeels]

yea i dont understand peoples on this forum obession with romances. wow 3 dialogue paths and a sex scene ?? kind of weird to be so up in arms about

[Evil Johnny 666]

SilentNukee wrote...

Um...No. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I like ME because of story, gameplay and romances. Romances are BioWare's trademark, and it hasn't let them down, because a vast majority of players enjoy them.

You mean the vast majority of players like to have their ego appeased and to feel like Don Juans. People like to see fake characters made out of pixels to show them feelings for some reasons. Of course they want to see heated action too! I'd rather watch a porn with real people. Or preferably (as I'm not particularly fond of the first avenue) a movie with an actually well done romance, rather than saying pretty words 3 times to an easy girl. KotOR had an actually decent and complex romance with no real outcome to look forward, so it's actually about a relatively quality romance itself. But with Mass Effect, it's basically tell her she's pretty a time or two, she'll do you pretty eyes and you'll get in bed at the end of the game. How can anyone enjoy this low stuff is beyond me. And let's not even get started about same sex romances, 3/4th of the people using it will be for lesbian stuff and posting vids of it on youtube.

[theSteeeeeels]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I keep saying the wrong thing when trying to talk about this topic... let's see if I can get it right this time. First, the best and worst case scenarios for opening up old love interests to different genders.

Best Case Scenario:
Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
 This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

So far, all romances in Bioware games have been at least somewhat unavoidable, and the more avoidable they are, the more people complain of them being shallow. A lot of people were "ninjaromanced" by the ME1 romances, but some ME2 players complain that their new partners aren't as open about their affections as the ME1 romances were... these new, more hidden romances feel less "deep." Also, there were a lot of complaints in ME2 about FemShepard's attitude toward Jacob. He didn't hit on her, the problem was that her hitting on him felt out-of-character. So not only do we have to be careful about not making the LIs too flirty, we also have to sorry about not making Shepard too flirty. It's a minefield.

Now, I have a Femshep infiltrator who would love to dump Liara for Tali. And I have a female friend who literally refuses to play Mass Effect if she can't play a dude-romancin' dude. So new same sex romances for old characters is A-OK in my book.  I just hope they're done in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive.

But then I feel bad about saying THAT, because one of my favorite romances in ME1 was Kaidan's deep, flirty, inexorable romance. I like it when my fictional dates hit on me, and segregating all romances behind a "Pick this heart icon to initiate ROMANCE MODE" barrier will limit that sort-of-half-flirty banter thing you got with Kaidan. Ideally, there would be some way to express slight interest early on, without "locking in" to romance mode. After you've expressed the slight interest, your LI could become more openly flirty. After that, you can either shut them down or initiate ROMANCE MODE. This way you can have all that flirty buildup, and possibly have it with multiple characters (my infiltrator would love to flirt with Kaidan, Liara, and Tali simultaneously), but then lock in SERIOUS romance with one of them.



Example: say Joker becomes a new Bi love interest. When talking with him, you have an opportunity to say "Do you like Gladiator movies" to which he will respond "Have you ever seen a grown man naked" Then Shepard can respond with "I'm all about seeing grown men naked (flirty response)" or "Have you ever been in a Turkish Prison? (bro response)" And yes, I assume that 200 years from now people will still be quoting Airplane.

More seriously, here's how the dialogue for Tali could go down:
Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"
Femshep options:
-They reminded me of you
-Somebody I liked at the time
-None of your business

If you tell Tali that your first kiss reminded you of her, she'll be flirtier from then on. She'll have the "Interest" flag checked, but not the romance flag. If you give either of the other responses, she won't flirt. Later, you'll have another dialogue with her if you've engaged flirty mode, where she'll outright ask you out, and you can say yes or turn her down.

i think you to need to get laid and smoke a cigerette

[Alpha-Centuri]

Ghostjs wrote...

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

N7Armada wrote...

Fact is have you ever watched a giant blockbuster action movie without a romance. Has never happened in history. Especially sic-fi, it adds dimension, gives you something personal to fight for, and the best part if you don't like it, Don't Have One. Brilliant

Terminator 2

Actually Terminator 2 had the Bromance between a boy and his killer robot.

You made me laugh. For realz though, you got me if you include bromances as well. But that's no fair.

Sticking with Arnold movies... Commando, Eraser (Early scripts did, but Vanessa WIlliams and Arnold didn't uh.... mesh

Umm.. Romeo must die was big. I'll get some more recent ones if you want

[Evil Johnny 666]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I keep saying the wrong thing when trying to talk about this topic... let's see if I can get it right this time. First, the best and worst case scenarios for opening up old love interests to different genders.

Best Case Scenario:
Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
 This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

So far, all romances in Bioware games have been at least somewhat unavoidable, and the more avoidable they are, the more people complain of them being shallow. A lot of people were "ninjaromanced" by the ME1 romances, but some ME2 players complain that their new partners aren't as open about their affections as the ME1 romances were... these new, more hidden romances feel less "deep." Also, there were a lot of complaints in ME2 about FemShepard's attitude toward Jacob. He didn't hit on her, the problem was that her hitting on him felt out-of-character. So not only do we have to be careful about not making the LIs too flirty, we also have to sorry about not making Shepard too flirty. It's a minefield.

Now, I have a Femshep infiltrator who would love to dump Liara for Tali. And I have a female friend who literally refuses to play Mass Effect if she can't play a dude-romancin' dude. So new same sex romances for old characters is A-OK in my book.  I just hope they're done in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive.

But then I feel bad about saying THAT, because one of my favorite romances in ME1 was Kaidan's deep, flirty, inexorable romance. I like it when my fictional dates hit on me, and segregating all romances behind a "Pick this heart icon to initiate ROMANCE MODE" barrier will limit that sort-of-half-flirty banter thing you got with Kaidan. Ideally, there would be some way to express slight interest early on, without "locking in" to romance mode. After you've expressed the slight interest, your LI could become more openly flirty. After that, you can either shut them down or initiate ROMANCE MODE. This way you can have all that flirty buildup, and possibly have it with multiple characters (my infiltrator would love to flirt with Kaidan, Liara, and Tali simultaneously), but then lock in SERIOUS romance with one of them.

Indeed. But I don't think it's solely about that, it's also how damn easy the romances are, how you don't need to try to say something accordingly to the LI personallity to not ****** her off and romance her. It's like failsafe and females are portrayed as easy girls who'll fall for anything.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I don't have a problem with romances in games, sometimes I'm fond enough of a character to romance, most times i'm not. I did, actually, romance Kaidan in Mass Effect because I like his character, rare as that is for me in Bioware games these days...

I don't have a problem with bi-sexual/gay romances popping up either... However, I do have a problem when all the companion NPCs turn out bi-sexual. Dragon Age 2 did it with all their romance options, and it left all the NPCs feeling shallow, desperate and needy. It kind of cheapens characters as a whole, in my opinion, when they'll jump on anything with a pulse.

And i'd like to point out again i don't have a problem with bi-sexual romances, just. 100% all the time NPC bi-sexual fun time popping up out of nowhere seems kind of.... Meh.

Don't hate me :<

[jpace335]

Thank you all for the discussion. Before I go, I just want to end by saying that I hope the gameplay is the most important factor for you all. It's what separates games (to alter a platitude) from the movies.
'night.

[JamieCOTC]

jpace335 wrote...

 Let me first say that I have been a fan of these games from the beggining. This is for two reasons: story and gameplay. I do NOT consider the romances to be part of the story. Sure, we all know the LI will become a plot device in ME3 w/ a choice of "Save Earth or save your LI". Come on. Why do you people feel the need to beg for more of this trite crap? This has got to stop. Bioware, I feel like you think these people begging for more people to **** in ME are the majority of the fanbase.

I think romance has become a staple in games for the same reason it is a staple in other media formats.  People like it.  Superman has Lois Lane.  Buffy has Angel.  Bogie has Bacall. Romeo has Juliett. Why shouldn't Shepard have ... whomever? 

[jrockjake]

Romance is only inserted in these games for the lonely, old women whose husbands left them for someone younger, the neckbeard waifu****s, and the flaming homosexuals who think that if a game doesn't have one gay as **** character in it, it's insulting them.

Maybe some added heat for the yaoi loving hambeasts from across the globe as well.

Point is, it draws in more customers, and that's what Bioware wants. Customers. Because more customers = more cash = more people to drain money from.

Also:

1.) I Love You
2.) I'm hungry.
3.) Get out of here.

God damn, of all things to put as neutral....I'm Hungry?

Sheesh.

[DRSH]

Well... I got a question: Why does all romances have to revolve around Shepard? I want to see some crushes & some kisses/hugs whateva between other crew members. Kasumi's crush for Jacob was a nice touch. Really made me feel like there was more going on on the Normandy than I 1st realised. Liara & Feron would've been a nice touch too. Sure if your Shepard romanced Liara then she comes back to you, but if you didn't romance her why not let her find happiness in Feron's arms. I was kinda hoping she would at least kiss Feron in LotSB in one of my playthroughs. Another example I was thinking: Tali & Garrus... you know... why Male Shepard & Tali or Female Shep & Garrus, why not Garrus & Tali? hell from the dextroaminowhatevastuff point of view they're compatible... plus that conversation on the Citadel when Tali says "i got a shotgun"... I kinda felt a romance between Garrus & Tali sparkling there. Sure give the players the ability to romance whateva characters they like, I'm all for it, but I would love to see such relationships develop among other members of the crew as well. If my Shep is happy with Ash/Miranda, why not let Garrus find happiness with Tali... or I dunno some other example... nothing too complicated... but it could work & it would add a bit more depth I think. The Garrus-Tali fling is just one of many possible outcomes...

EDIT: Also Ken+Gabby=was a nice touch & the supposed implication of a relationship between Jacob & Miranda in the past.

Modifié par DRSH, 16 mai 2011 - 01:21 .

[Lotto]

****ing Bioware.

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

*wall of wisdom snip*

Can Bioware just hire you already?

[Customz]

@jpace335 Sorry just had to put this out there: is it just coincidence you registered to complain about this the day gay romances were announced?.
As for overimportance of romances, in my first ME1 playthrough my Shep actually had no romance. He was kinda into Ashley but in the end decided he should focus on getting the job done. In ME2 he didn't particularly care for the girls in the normandy and was not gay, so again no romance. It can be done, didn't have to jump through any hoops. Because this is what I wanted at first should all romances be disabled? Of course not.

[theSteeeeeels]

DRSH wrote...

Well... I got a question: Why does all romances have to revolve around Shepard? I want to see some crushes & some kisses/hugs whateva between other crew members. Kasumi's crush for Jacob was a nice touch. Really made me feel like there was more going on on the Normandy than I 1st realised. Liara & Feron would've been a nice touch too. Sure if your Shepard romanced Liara then she comes back to you, but if you didn't romance her why not let her find happiness in Feron's arms. I was kinda hoping she would at least kiss Feron in LotSB in one of my playthroughs. Another example I was thinking: Tali & Garrus... you know... why Male Shepard & Tali or Female Shep & Garrus, why not Garrus & Tali? hell from the dextroaminowhatevastuff point of view they're compatible... plus that conversation on the Citadel when Tali says "i got a shotgun"... I kinda felt a romance between Garrus & Tali sparkling there. Sure give the players the ability to romance whateva characters they like, I'm all for it, but I would love to see such relationships develop among other members of the crew as well. If my Shep is happy with Ash/Miranda, why not let Garrus find happiness with Tali... or I dunno some other example... nothing too complicated... but it could work & it would add a bit more depth I think. The Garrus-Tali fling is just one of many possible outcomes...

true. just imagine coming home to normandy after a day of reaper blasting, only to open up the engineer room and see thane and jack doing doggy against the rails. man, roll on me3!

Modifié par theSteeeeeels, 16 mai 2011 - 01:23 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

Quoted, because I think this is important.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 16 mai 2011 - 01:24 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I think romance has become a staple in games for the same reason it is a staple in other media formats.  People like it.  Superman has Lois Lane.  Buffy has Angel.  Bogie has Bacall. Romeo has Juliett. Why shouldn't Shepard have ... whomever? 

Romances are hardly a staple in video games. At the least romances which you can control, but even then your character romancing someone without your input isn't particularly what's in every game either. The problem with romances is that you need a pretty complicated system to make it worthwhile. But then, that's crucial dev time and money which could be used for something else. That's why it always feel like an afterthought.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 16 mai 2011 - 01:26 .

[DRSH]

theSteeeeeels wrote...

DRSH wrote...

Well... I got a question: Why does all romances have to revolve around Shepard? I want to see some crushes & some kisses/hugs whateva between other crew members. Kasumi's crush for Jacob was a nice touch. Really made me feel like there was more going on on the Normandy than I 1st realised. Liara & Feron would've been a nice touch too. Sure if your Shepard romanced Liara then she comes back to you, but if you didn't romance her why not let her find happiness in Feron's arms. I was kinda hoping she would at least kiss Feron in LotSB in one of my playthroughs. Another example I was thinking: Tali & Garrus... you know... why Male Shepard & Tali or Female Shep & Garrus, why not Garrus & Tali? hell from the dextroaminowhatevastuff point of view they're compatible... plus that conversation on the Citadel when Tali says "i got a shotgun"... I kinda felt a romance between Garrus & Tali sparkling there. Sure give the players the ability to romance whateva characters they like, I'm all for it, but I would love to see such relationships develop among other members of the crew as well. If my Shep is happy with Ash/Miranda, why not let Garrus find happiness with Tali... or I dunno some other example... nothing too complicated... but it could work & it would add a bit more depth I think. The Garrus-Tali fling is just one of many possible outcomes...

true. just imagine coming home to normandy after a day of reaper blasting, only to open up the engineer room and see thane and jack doing doggy against the rails. man, roll on me3!

I think Fornax covered that one already .

[Nexus Arcade]

So because a lot of people "cry" about it. It go in. But because one (that's you OP) "cry" about it. It shouldn't. I fail to see your logic.

[onelifecrisis]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Let's please try to keep this conversation civil and avoid the cheap jibes against other posters, please.

Ha! Like that's going to happen!

This topic always gets heated, and it's always the same side that throws the cheap shots.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 16 mai 2011 - 01:34 .

[onelifecrisis]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Bioware don't exactly have a great track record in this department.