179 réponses à ce sujet

[jpace335]

Hey all, I'm back. Customz, I already said yes to that earlier. Monger, you're incorrect based on what has been said already.

[Nexus Arcade]

onelifecrisis wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Bioware don't exactly have a great track record in this department.

Exibit A
http://fc01.devianta...you-d3c21hn.png

[Graunt]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

jpace335 wrote...

this is what i'm talking about. It mat be possible that you pick that option because it's hilarious, but on the off chance that you actually love a mass of polygons we can see the problem with that portion of the fanbase.

I'd say the fact that people actually care about video game characters is testament to Bioware's prowess in striking emotional chords with their audience in writing, interaction, cinematic presentation, and voice acting.

And then you also have some people who just want to see people "getting it on with aliens"--and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with actual relationships.

I'm personally indifferent to this announcement other than to say that it would be rather strange to see male Shephard suddenly able to "get jiggy" with say, Wrex or Garrus after not being able to over the course of the previous two games.  It just reeks of Bioware caving in to fan service at the sake of the continuity.  Then again, they could all be like "all known life in the universe other than the Reapers is about to become extinct...what the hell?!  No one will find out!".

Modifié par Graunt, 16 mai 2011 - 01:45 .

[KainrycKarr]

jpace335 wrote...

They've already said that they want to continue making ME-world games after ME3. Why not put out a dating sim for their extra ideas so everyone's happy? ME3's already shaping up to be one.

This is as far as I got into the thread. Congratulations, you are the first person to come up with an opinion that is wrong.

I did not think such a thing was possible, due to the nature of the word opinion, but you have proven me wrong.

Kudos, I say, kudos.

Also, trolling. (Come on people...read his posts...check his join date.)

[jpace335]

KainrycKarr, the post you cited was obviously a joke. And I have already said that I joined today because of this topic. I am honestly concerned.

[AngelicMachinery]

jpace335 wrote...

Ok, c'mon. My complaint with ME3 is Hudson's admission that romances will be expanded from the way they were implemented in ME2. This is because you guys have an 8,000+ reply thread asking for more alien ass. Think of this way: there were no gay options for Male Shepard in ME1. Now Casey Hudson says that will be included in ME3. not canon.

I think I know why ur mad bro.

[jpace335]

AngelicMachinery, I am not mad for the reason that you think. Why does saying gay cause people to immediately assume you're homophobic?

[MizzNaaa]

theSteeeeeels wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I keep saying the wrong thing when trying to talk about this topic... let's see if I can get it right this time. First, the best and worst case scenarios for opening up old love interests to different genders.

Best Case Scenario:
Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
 This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

So far, all romances in Bioware games have been at least somewhat unavoidable, and the more avoidable they are, the more people complain of them being shallow. A lot of people were "ninjaromanced" by the ME1 romances, but some ME2 players complain that their new partners aren't as open about their affections as the ME1 romances were... these new, more hidden romances feel less "deep." Also, there were a lot of complaints in ME2 about FemShepard's attitude toward Jacob. He didn't hit on her, the problem was that her hitting on him felt out-of-character. So not only do we have to be careful about not making the LIs too flirty, we also have to sorry about not making Shepard too flirty. It's a minefield.

Now, I have a Femshep infiltrator who would love to dump Liara for Tali. And I have a female friend who literally refuses to play Mass Effect if she can't play a dude-romancin' dude. So new same sex romances for old characters is A-OK in my book.  I just hope they're done in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive.

But then I feel bad about saying THAT, because one of my favorite romances in ME1 was Kaidan's deep, flirty, inexorable romance. I like it when my fictional dates hit on me, and segregating all romances behind a "Pick this heart icon to initiate ROMANCE MODE" barrier will limit that sort-of-half-flirty banter thing you got with Kaidan. Ideally, there would be some way to express slight interest early on, without "locking in" to romance mode. After you've expressed the slight interest, your LI could become more openly flirty. After that, you can either shut them down or initiate ROMANCE MODE. This way you can have all that flirty buildup, and possibly have it with multiple characters (my infiltrator would love to flirt with Kaidan, Liara, and Tali simultaneously), but then lock in SERIOUS romance with one of them.



Example: say Joker becomes a new Bi love interest. When talking with him, you have an opportunity to say "Do you like Gladiator movies" to which he will respond "Have you ever seen a grown man naked" Then Shepard can respond with "I'm all about seeing grown men naked (flirty response)" or "Have you ever been in a Turkish Prison? (bro response)" And yes, I assume that 200 years from now people will still be quoting Airplane.

More seriously, here's how the dialogue for Tali could go down:
Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"
Femshep options:
-They reminded me of you
-Somebody I liked at the time
-None of your business

If you tell Tali that your first kiss reminded you of her, she'll be flirtier from then on. She'll have the "Interest" flag checked, but not the romance flag. If you give either of the other responses, she won't flirt. Later, you'll have another dialogue with her if you've engaged flirty mode, where she'll outright ask you out, and you can say yes or turn her down.

i think you to need to get laid and smoke a cigerette

And I think you're rude. <_<

[Nexus Arcade]

How is anything canon?

[theSteeeeeels]

MizzNaaa wrote...

theSteeeeeels wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I keep saying the wrong thing when trying to talk about this topic... let's see if I can get it right this time. First, the best and worst case scenarios for opening up old love interests to different genders.

Best Case Scenario:
Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
 This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!

So far, all romances in Bioware games have been at least somewhat unavoidable, and the more avoidable they are, the more people complain of them being shallow. A lot of people were "ninjaromanced" by the ME1 romances, but some ME2 players complain that their new partners aren't as open about their affections as the ME1 romances were... these new, more hidden romances feel less "deep." Also, there were a lot of complaints in ME2 about FemShepard's attitude toward Jacob. He didn't hit on her, the problem was that her hitting on him felt out-of-character. So not only do we have to be careful about not making the LIs too flirty, we also have to sorry about not making Shepard too flirty. It's a minefield.

Now, I have a Femshep infiltrator who would love to dump Liara for Tali. And I have a female friend who literally refuses to play Mass Effect if she can't play a dude-romancin' dude. So new same sex romances for old characters is A-OK in my book.  I just hope they're done in such a way as to be relatively unobtrusive.

But then I feel bad about saying THAT, because one of my favorite romances in ME1 was Kaidan's deep, flirty, inexorable romance. I like it when my fictional dates hit on me, and segregating all romances behind a "Pick this heart icon to initiate ROMANCE MODE" barrier will limit that sort-of-half-flirty banter thing you got with Kaidan. Ideally, there would be some way to express slight interest early on, without "locking in" to romance mode. After you've expressed the slight interest, your LI could become more openly flirty. After that, you can either shut them down or initiate ROMANCE MODE. This way you can have all that flirty buildup, and possibly have it with multiple characters (my infiltrator would love to flirt with Kaidan, Liara, and Tali simultaneously), but then lock in SERIOUS romance with one of them.



Example: say Joker becomes a new Bi love interest. When talking with him, you have an opportunity to say "Do you like Gladiator movies" to which he will respond "Have you ever seen a grown man naked" Then Shepard can respond with "I'm all about seeing grown men naked (flirty response)" or "Have you ever been in a Turkish Prison? (bro response)" And yes, I assume that 200 years from now people will still be quoting Airplane.

More seriously, here's how the dialogue for Tali could go down:
Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"
Femshep options:
-They reminded me of you
-Somebody I liked at the time
-None of your business

If you tell Tali that your first kiss reminded you of her, she'll be flirtier from then on. She'll have the "Interest" flag checked, but not the romance flag. If you give either of the other responses, she won't flirt. Later, you'll have another dialogue with her if you've engaged flirty mode, where she'll outright ask you out, and you can say yes or turn her down.

i think you to need to get laid and smoke a cigerette

And I think you're rude. <_<

we both make valid points

[Lotto]

As long as Bioware doesn't change existing characters, I really don't care, but they will.

Can't wait for previously straight characters to do a sudden 180, realizing only now how much they love **** (or carpet if you're a fem shep). Enjoy Garrus trying to calibrate your ass.

[Nexus Arcade]

Lol

[CulturalGeekGirl]

onelifecrisis wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Bioware don't exactly have a great track record in this department.

I can understand that you'd be wary based on some past issues, and I feel your pain. I was once trying to do a non-romance cannon and Liara stealth'd me. But maybe they've learned, and it isn't that difficult.  First, let's say we have two DA-style icons, % is for friendship and @ is for flirting.


Here's an expanded version of my previous example, with an expanded option wheel.

Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"

Someone you like {%} -              - Someone special
                                                     - No one in particular
Reminded me of you {@) -             - None of your business

If you pick "someone you like" you give Tali advice, like a caring older sibling, and get the [Friendship] flag. If you pick "reminded me of you" you get the [interest] flag checked, which makes Tali flirty and gives you the option to check the [Romance] flag later. All the other options are neutral, though the ability to pursue frienship is always an option, as long as you don't continuously choose Renegade options.

Here's a similar dialogue, for Kaidan:

Kaidan:
"I tried to distract myself from the Reapers, even started having drinks with this doctor on the Citadel. It didn't help."

MaleShepard

I had someone {%} -              - The crew has each other
                                               - We have to focus
Waiting for a chance {@} -      - Don't rely on others

The "I had someone" frienship line would vary based on your ME1 or 2 LI, and the conversation would go to both of you reminiscing over past romances, like bros do. From then on, you only get the frienship options.

There are a bunch of ways to do this right. Either Bioware has already come up with them, or they're scanning feedback threads like this one to see what people think would be the best. I'm trying to be helpful and optimistic, here. (Also, I've done writing and design for games before, so this is an interesting design exercise).

(Edit: Yay! My dialogue wheels ended up wheelshaped!)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 02:09 .

[theSteeeeeels]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Bioware don't exactly have a great track record in this department.

I can understand that you'd be wary based on some past issues, and I feel your pain. I was once trying to do a non-romance cannon and Liara stealth'd me. But maybey they've learned, and it isn't that difficult.  First, let's say we have two DA-style icons, % is for friendship and @ is for flirting.


Here's an expanded version of my previous example, with an expanded option wheel.

Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"

Someone you like {%} -              - Someone special
                                                     - No one in particular
Reminded me of you {@) -             - None of your business

If you pick "someone you like" you give Tali advice, like a caring older sibling, and get the [Friendship] flag. If you pick "reminded me of you" you get the [interest] flag checked, which makes Tali flirty and gives you the option to check the [Romance] flag later. All the other options are neutral, though the ability to pursue frienship is always an option, as long as you don't continuously choose Renegade options.

Here's a similar dialogue, for Kaidan:

Kaidan:
"I tried to distract myself from the Reapers, even started having drinks with this doctor on the Citadel. It didn't help."

MaleShepard

I had someone {%} -              - The crew has each other
                                               - We have to focus
Waiting for a chance {@} -      - Don't rely on others

The frienship line would vary based on your ME1 or 2 LI, and the conversation would go to both of you reminiscing over past romances, like bros do. From then on, you only get the frienship options.

There are a bunch of ways to do this right. Either Bioware has already come up with them, or they're scanning feedback threads like this one to see what people think would be the best. I'm trying to be helpful and optimistic, here. (Also, I've done writing and design for games before, so this is an interesting design exercise).

(Edit: Yay! My dialogue wheels ended up wheelshaped!)

seriously its like $8 a pack, try some

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I like design exercises. 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 02:09 .

[onelifecrisis]

theSteeeeeels wrote...

seriously its like $8 a pack, try some

Oh FFS can we get some moderation in here?

[SilentNukee]

That probably means a lot of us have to replay ME1 and ME2 to "flag" the relationships. But, that's probably how it's going to be.

[Graunt]

ark fear monger wrote...

How is anything canon?

Vader was Luke's father.  The Empire was defeated by a bunch of Carebears.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 mai 2011 - 02:08 .

[onelifecrisis]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

<snip>

Oh I agree that it's certainly possible, I just don't know if BW are up to it. They do listen to fan feedback in many areas, but this is one area that they seem to repeatedly ignore. Ever since ME1 (some) people have complained at the way romances are virtually forced on the player; ME2 and DA2 are proof that BW aren't listening to those complaints, or are listening but can't/won't do anything about it.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

[Evil Johnny 666]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I'd say the fact that people actually care about video game characters is testament to Bioware's prowess in striking emotional chords with their audience in writing, interaction, cinematic presentation, and voice acting.

I'd agree if it was for something else than romance. But too many people love romance in video games for the wrong reasons, as shallow as the characters can be too...

[jpace335]

onelifecrisis, correct me if I didn't get what you said. But Bioware does seem to listen to this and respond to it, given the recent announcement.

[Lotto]

onelifecrisis wrote...

theSteeeeeels wrote...

seriously its like $8 a pack, try some

Oh FFS can we get some moderation in here?

Yeah! No fun allowed!

[Blacklash93]

Graunt wrote...

I'm personally indifferent to this announcement other than to say that it would be rather strange to see male Shephard suddenly able to "get jiggy" with say, Wrex or Garrus after not being able to over the course of the previous two games.  It just reeks of Bioware caving in to fan service at the sake of the continuity.

It is fanservice. And so what? Why you care about this strange conception of "continuity" for something you have nothing to do with is beyond my understanding.

[Siona]

Graunt wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

jpace335 wrote...

this is what i'm talking about. It mat be possible that you pick that option because it's hilarious, but on the off chance that you actually love a mass of polygons we can see the problem with that portion of the fanbase.

I'd say the fact that people actually care about video game characters is testament to Bioware's prowess in striking emotional chords with their audience in writing, interaction, cinematic presentation, and voice acting.

And then you also have some people who just want to see people "getting it on with aliens"--and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with actual relationships.

I'm personally indifferent to this announcement other than to say that it would be rather strange to see male Shephard suddenly able to "get jiggy" with say, Wrex or Garrus after not being able to over the course of the previous two games.  It just reeks of Bioware caving in to fan service at the sake of the continuity.  Then again, they could all be like "all known life in the universe other than the Reapers is about to become extinct...what the hell?!  No one will find out!".

I don't get the idea of 'caving in to fanservice'. Because, what does upgrading graphics or adding in features to make gameplay easier count as then? Should games never update from the basic for fear of 'caving'? Should Bioware never look back on what they've done, what worked and what didn't, and grow from there? If Bioware DOESN'T listen to its fanbase, it's shooting itself in the foot.

[onelifecrisis]

jpace335 wrote...

onelifecrisis, correct me if I didn't get what you said. But Bioware does seem to listen to this and respond to it, given the recent announcement.

There's been a few announcements, which one are you talking about?