238 réponses à ce sujet

[Fuzrum77]

This is absurd. I agree with the OP completely. No offense to the gay folks out there or those that like same sex relationships in their games. But this makes NO sense. Nowhere in the first 2/3 of the Mass Effect "saga" has male Shepard shown -any- inclination toward homosexuality. And even worse: none of the other male npcs have either. I -guess- making James Vega bi is okay, but suddenly Kaiden out of the blue wants to turn our bromance into romance? What? That's bull****, and it's gonna ****** me off if Kaiden, Garrus or whoever else is all up in my face about it just like the pretty boys from Dragon Age 2 were.

I loved Anders in Dragon Age and absolutely loathed him in DA2...not because he was bisexual, because he was so -agressively- bisexual. "Dude. That's fine that you like the dudes, but leave me the hell alone about it." I don't mind the option if 1.) it makes sense and it was an option from the beginning and 2.) The bicurious guys aren't trying to cup my crotch in every conversation.

Modifié par Fuzrum77, 16 mai 2011 - 03:33 .

[-Skorpious-]

SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.

*my post from another thread*

I think many of us (myself included) are passionate about Mass Effect and fan-favorite characters such as Garrus. Whenever a favorite character is involved, many of us are frightened about changes made to that character; especially when they regard such huge and controversial topics such as a shift in sexuality. 

For example: Some of my friends disregard Luke and Leia's final "scene" in A New Hope as non-canon. It is canon. Luke and Leia DID share a passionate kiss despite being brother and sister. There is no changing or ignoring such facts.

Why bring this up? If Garrus hits on Shepard (or even presents a male Shepard with the option to pursue a romance) their is no denying the fact that Garrus is a bisexual character. You can pretend that the conversation never took place, but it DID take place - the option DID present itself. The player, despite wanting to believe differently, will always be reminded of the fact that Garrus can potentially harbor feelings for their Shepard. 

Many people dislike sudden core changes in characters. Using Garrus as an example again, it is a fact that he has never shown interest in male Shepard's in both ME games - why should he start? Why should his personality take such a drastic turn such as a change in sexual orientation?

As such, I believe people have the right to voice their fears over their favorite characters "canon"' personalities; even if they have no say in the final product.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 16 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[onelifecrisis]

SilentNukee wrote...

Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic.

If they actually get it right. And it would be the first time they've ever got it right, or even close to right.

[IccaRa]

-Skorpious- wrote..

Why should his personality take such a drastic turn such as a change in sexual orientation?

The problem here is people thinking this would be a drastic change, which is a hyperbole of the highest order.

[Raiders Fan 223]

SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.

Almost the entire ME1 squad?  I wouldn't consider that "small."  As I said, its up to opinion though. 

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I'm not against straight people, but I seriously hope there are no added straight relationships in ME3.

Like Gianna in ME2? What the crap? She showed no interest in dudes in ME1; it totally ruined the epicness of the game. Seriously, no more straight content. It's horrible writing and I do NOT want to see it.

Did I mention I'm not against straight relationships? Just don't add any new ones to people who are not introduced with an "I AM ALL ABOUT HETERO SEX" in a previous game.

kthx

Not really a fair comparison. The Op said he wants a "compromise" not the abolition of all S/S relationships? Come on, folks. 

[WizenSlinky0]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm not against homosexual characters or romances in games, but I am against relationships that break previously defined characteristics of said characters.

Garrus mentions his "sparring" match with a female turian. Thane was madly in love with his wife. Jacob seems truly hurt that Miranda doesn't feel any connection with him. I feel it would go against characteristics of said characters if this was reversed in ME3; especially considering that they didn't open up to Shepard a mere few months ago, but suddenly decide that an imminent reaper invasion is the time to do so.

Why does engaging in a relationship with one sex exclude attraction to another? I only like women, but if tomorrow I decide I want a man, would that be "out of character" for me? Obviously not, if I made that decision.

I do understand the sentiment of wanting characters to stay within previous bounds. I really do. But when it comes down to it, two games or no, there will be sides of characters we have not seen. if there weren't than their development would be amounted to nothing in ME3 and that would cheapen the experience. I'm not saying those changes HAVE to be that they are bi, only that, one should not be surprised if after three games they happen to be interested.

The big thing is we don't "know" if they would ever or could ever be interested because bioware never gave the option. Just because they don't immediatly go "Oh my Shepard, how much..reach you have" does not mean their character isn't/won't be/couldn't be Bi.

Also, most of the reasoning *not* to do it either comes from ignorance (that they will flirt with Shepard at every oppurtunity, rather than Shepard instigating it). That would be the result of weak writing, not detrimental character development.

I mean when it comes down it there's no reason someone who is Bi has to during the first conversations you have with them say "Oh by the way, I'm bi, so if I come on to you in the next game don't be surprised, kay?". Just because they didn't feel the need to share the information at that time doesn't mean it isn't there. Even if it was never "meant" for that character, the only ones who would "know" that are Bioware staff.

The other reasoning is they are uncomfortable with it. Which I'm not judging but it defies logic that parts of a game you have no need to access should effect enjoyment of it.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 03:35 .

[Placeholder1]

-Skorpious- wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.

*my post from another thread*

I think many of us (myself included) are passionate about Mass Effect and fan-favorite characters such as Garrus. Whenever a favorite character is involved, many of us are frightened about changes made to that character; especially when they regard such huge and controversial topics such as a shift in sexuality. 

For example: Some of my friends disregard Luke and Leia's final "scene" in A New Hope as non-canon. It is canon. Luke and Leia DID share a passionate kiss despite being brother and sister. There is no changing or ignoring such facts.

Why bring this up? If Garrus hits on Shepard (or even presents a male Shepard with the option to pursue a romance) their is no denying the fact that Garrus is a bisexual character. You can pretend that the conversation never took place, but it DID take place - the option DID present itself. The player, despite wanting to believe differently, will always be reminded of the fact that Garrus can potentially harbor feelings for their Shepard. 

Many people dislike sudden core changes in characters. Using Garrus as an example again, it is a fact that he has never shown interest in male Shepard's in both ME games - why should he start? Why should his personality take such a drastic turn such as a change in sexual orientation?

As such, I believe people have the right to voice their fears over their favorite characters "canon"' personalities; even if they have no say in the final product.

This pretty much sums up my opinion

[-Skorpious-]

IccaRa wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote..

Why should his personality take such a drastic turn such as a change in sexual orientation?

The problem here is people thinking this would be a drastic change, which is a hyperbole of the highest order.

Not really. Using ME/ME2 as evidence, one could determine Garrus is most likely which of the following? Don't lie. 

A) Hetereosexual
Homosexual
C) Bisexual 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Satire is not the same as trolling.  It's actually a contribution and a counter-argument in its absurdity.

The fact that you think it's trolling lends credibility to my point.

Except your satire is borderline trolling in its quality. Gianna showing interest in Shepard in ME2 isn't all that unlikely compared to Garrus, Jacob, or Kaidan suddenly deciding they're bisexual. Like it or not a huge majority of people are straight and the same rule likely applies elsewhere in the galaxy, considering how it is an important factor in a species' survival after all. A gay LI not being included doesn't mean anybody is discriminating against you. The same applies if *insert character here* isn't turned bisexual.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 16 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[Siona]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm not against homosexual characters or romances in games, but I am against relationships that break previously defined characteristics of said characters.

Garrus mentions his "sparring" match with a female turian. Thane was madly in love with his wife. Jacob seems truly hurt that Miranda doesn't feel any connection with him. I feel it would go against characteristics of said characters if this was reversed in ME3; especially considering that they didn't open up to Shepard a mere few months ago, but suddenly decide that an imminent reaper invasion is the time to do so.

Except this proves nothing. I'm a bisexual player; I talk about my male ex to others, does this mean if I don't mention my female exes in the same breath, I'm straight?

Rather than assume someone is straight until proven gay, I prefer the system of waiting until a person specifically says 'hey, I like ___'. Regardless of what they may have said in the past, this does not leave out the option of being interested in men or women or hanar or whatever until a character specifically says 'no, that's not my thing'.

[Blacklash93]

Fuzrum77 wrote...

This is absurd. I agree with the OP completely. No offense to the gay folks out there or those that like same sex relationships in their games. But this makes NO sense. Nowhere in the first 2/3 of the Mass Effect "saga" has male Shepard shown -any- inclination toward homosexuality.

Shepard could always be gay. Just because he wouldn't shout it to the heavens doesn't mean he couldn't. Now Bioware is finally giving players the chance to recognize it in-game.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 mai 2011 - 03:36 .

[SilentNukee]

onelifecrisis wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic.

If they actually get it right. And it would be the first time they've ever got it right, or even close to right.

The ME team won't pull what DA2 pulled on us, I'm sure of it.

@ Squad: Yes, probably the ME1 squad because I'm sure a lot of us can associate themselves better with them. Again, it's just a guess, nothing official at all.

@ Skorp: None of the squadmembers come out saying their sexual preferences, except for Jack if you read between the lines. You cannot know for sure, even if it seems that way, that they're the way you want them to see.
I'll take me for example...I can make out with my boyfriend right now, in the middle of the street. People will think I'm a...attention **** or something, but probably will assume I'm straight too. Thing is, I'm not. But you don't know that.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 16 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[Soahfreako]

SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.

No, if it's like DA2 where I don't want to be an ass with anders and I want to pick all the good options and then suddenly I'm in a situation with Anders where ALL I HAVE IS ROMANCE OPTIONS, I will be pissed. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Blacklash93 wrote...
Shepard could always be gay. Just because he wouldn't shout it to the heavens doesn't mean he couldn't. Now Bioware is finally giving players the chance to recognize it in-game.

By making a bunch of characters suddenly decide they're gay? Leave it to fan-fiction please.

[Fuzrum77]

Soahfreako wrote...
No, if it's like DA2 where I don't want to be an ass with anders and I want to pick all the good options and then suddenly I'm in a situation with Anders where ALL I HAVE IS ROMANCE OPTIONS, I will be pissed. 

This. I see Kaiden as Shepard's best friend (in my game obviously). If he starts hitting on me, that's not gonna be cool with me. The new guy, James Vega? Whatever. That's fine. Just don't have Kaiden and Garrus clapping Shepard's ass when they walk by.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

[quote]SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.[/quote]
No, if it's like DA2 where I don't want to be an ass with anders and I want to pick all the good options and then suddenly I'm in a situation with Anders where ALL I HAVE IS ROMANCE OPTIONS, I will be pissed. 

[/quote]

Garrus: Alright, let's do this!

 Paragon Option: OKAY!

Neutral Option: Sure!

Renegade Option: Uh.... I don't.... Alright!

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 16 mai 2011 - 03:41 .

[Blacklash93]

ReconTeam wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...
Shepard could always be gay. Just because he wouldn't shout it to the heavens doesn't mean he couldn't. Now Bioware is finally giving players the chance to recognize it in-game.

By making a bunch of characters suddenly decide they're gay? Leave it to fan-fiction please.

You have no idea what Bioware is going to go about this. You might as well wait until you actually do before crying foul at something that probably won't even happen.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

Did I mention I'm not against straight relationships? Just don't add any new ones to people who are not introduced with an "I AM ALL ABOUT HETERO SEX" in a previous game.
kthx

Not really a fair comparison. The Op said he wants a "compromise" not the abolition of all S/S relationships? Come on, folks. 

Naw, see, my last sentence says hetero romances can be in the game; they just have to be clearly marked in a previous game if the character is recurring.

Because, you know, it'd make no sense at all if they're suddenly romancing someone without showing a lot of prior interest.

ReconTeam wrote...
Except your satire is borderline trolling in its quality. Gianna showing interest in Shepard in ME2 isn't all that unlikely compared to Garrus, Jacob, or Kaidan suddenly deciding they're bisexual. Like it or not a huge majority of people are straight and the same rule likely applies elsewhere in the galaxy, considering how it is an important factor in a species' survival after all. A gay LI not being included doesn't mean anybody is discriminating against you. The same applies if *insert character here* isn't turned bisexual.

It is the same situation.  As far as I can tell Gianna "suddenly decided" she was heterosexual.  The other end being that she was always heterosexual and her relationships progressed differently over time and circumstance.

How crazy is that?  A relationship developing differently over time and circumstance, those circumstances including gender, place in life, situation, etc?  It boggles the mind that a character can, you know, develop.

No, no, you're right.  It be crazy that Garrus might slowly develop a crush on a dude.  Totally crazy.  Or that maybe they were always bi and they pursue relationships differenltly with the other gender.  Also totally crazy.

Oh, and, just so you're aware, bisexuals and homosexuals can reproduce.  Rather easily, actually, even in this day and age.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 mai 2011 - 03:43 .

[-Skorpious-]

SilentNukee wrote...

@ Skorp: None of the squadmembers come out saying their sexual preferences, except for Jack if you read between the lines. You cannot know for sure, even if it seems that way, that they're the way you want them to see.
I'll take me for example...I can make out with my boyfriend right now, in the middle of the street. People will think I'm a...attention **** or something, but probably will assume I'm straight too. Thing is, I'm not. But you don't know that.

Like I mentioned in my previous post - people get overly emotional regarding their favorite characters. That was the point I was trying to make.

If Han Solo started putting the moves on Luke, people would start feeling awkward. People would get uncomfrotable if Mal starting hitting on Jayne. Sure, those characters never specifically stated that they were heterosexual, but by engaging in heterosexual acts one can safely assume (and be correct 90-95% of the time) that that person was indeed straight.

Can't you see how it would cause feeling of awkwardness for those who do not share your beliefs? Not that mine is any better, but my original point stands.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 16 mai 2011 - 03:45 .

[Infinite Legend_]

Why exactly would it matter?

I've had Sheps that romance Ashley

Miranda

Liara

Tali

Thane, etc

now I can role-play Sheps that like dudes, I just think your making a mountain out of a ant hill.

[Isaidlunch]

Fuzrum77 wrote...

This is absurd. I agree with the OP completely. No offense to the gay folks out there or those that like same sex relationships in their games. But this makes NO sense. Nowhere in the first 2/3 of the Mass Effect "saga" has male Shepard shown -any- inclination toward homosexuality.

Why does a character have to show that they're homosexual/bisexual? By that logic my Shepard can't be straight either because he's shown no inclination towards heterosexuality either. See how silly that sounds?

Modifié par Kazanth, 16 mai 2011 - 03:45 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

People don't seem to understand...
There are probably only going to be a small variation of "bi" squadmates, by that, I'm picturing Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali and Garrus.
Hudson specifically said it will be "flagged" by conversation. Don't want to be involved in gay conversations? Then, don't choose the flirty options when communicating. You won't even know it even existed. It's not going to be forced onto you, unless you provoke the topic. The end.

No, if it's like DA2 where I don't want to be an ass with anders and I want to pick all the good options and then suddenly I'm in a situation with Anders where ALL I HAVE IS ROMANCE OPTIONS, I will be pissed.

Garrus: Alright, let's do this!

 Paragon Option: OKAY!

Neutral Option: Sure!

Renegade Option: Uh.... I don't.... Alright!

This is a fear of weak writing. It is up to Bioware to implement it correctly, but one should not say it should not be added because they fear a situation like that. They should be supporting its involvement but stressing a desire to see it implemented correctly.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 03:45 .

[silentstephi]

Eradyn wrote...

I would hope a compromise of some sort could enter into the equation. I'm against pulling a DA2, but I strongly believe there should be representation for the LGBT community. The question, to me, comes down to how.

This.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Siona wrote...

Except this proves nothing. I'm a bisexual player; I talk about my male ex to others, does this mean if I don't mention my female exes in the same breath, I'm straight?

No, and what I think what you are forgetting about is perception. If you only talk about your male ex, and never your female ex, you shouldn't be shocked that people think you are straight. Early in the thread, someone (paraphrasing here) said that it shouldn't come as a shock, and that its your fault for thinking that. As rational human beings, we use the evidence around us and make judgements. It might not be the correct choice, but it is what we do to function as humans

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck... people are going to think its a duck.

You talk about your male ex 24/7 without once mentioning or insinuating having a female ex, people are going to think you are straight.

Theres been no evidence at all that the current squad characters are bi (save for Jack and Tali *LOTSB*).


[Edit] Note: Im not saying that its not possible that they could be gay. It would just be a surprise and come out of the nowhere. Also, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be S/S. But they should establish S/S characters.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 16 mai 2011 - 03:48 .