238 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Fuzrum77 wrote...
While what you're saying may be true, everyone in this thread is talking about it...because it happens to be the topic of the thread. And the romance option (gay or not) with Anders in DA2 ruined that character. But that was just one issue I had with DA 2. I've got a bucket-full of problems with that game. I just don't want them to ruin some wonderful characters in the ME series like they did in the DA series.

If the relationship ruined Anders' character for you then I daresay you have some tolerance issues.  Unless you mean simply that the romance was poorly written (I wouldn't know since I wasn't interested and ignored it [funny how such things can be accomplished when romances are optional content]).

[atheelogos]

jlb524 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
It baffles me, and rather amuses me, how you're all crying about how lazy this is from a writing perspective when you have absolutely ZERO information about what said writing even is.

I think regardless of how this is implemented, some people still claim the writing is crap on principle....like with the DA2 romances.

luv ur avatar btw :wub: lol

[MACharlie1]

atheelogos wrote...

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...

First, I want to say that if pro S/S romance topics are allowed on this forum, then anti S/S romance topics should be allowed as well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I personally don’t get the fascination with same sex romances. Please read this entire post before you attack/judge.
 
Bioware, don’t screw this up. This sounds like it could be one of the best games in history – and based on what we’ve heard so far, it’s starting to look that way.   However, Casey’s tweet about same sex romances and LIs in ME3 is potentially devastating.
 
I understand Liara (and Kelly Chambers, I guess) are already considered S/S LIs. That’s fine. However, ME3 will be RUINED if, all of a sudden, a large proportion of existing characters turn out to be bi. It will honestly ruin the epicness of the series. Miranda, Thane, Garrus, Tali, Jacob… male shep – all bi? Don’t you see how this could make people who don’t share the views of those who post in the “Fight for the Love thread” a tad uncomfortable?
 
Proposed Solution – A compromise
In the world of Mass Effect, it is impossible to please everyone, because each player gets to create their own canon (a big reason why it is one of the best game series ever). If you must, make a small number of the current LIs interested in the same sex (like Kaiden and Jack). Don’t make it available for every character, and don’t even hint at it in the slightest for those who have romanced a different sex in ME 1 and 2. In addition, add one or two new LIs (James Vegas, for example) who might be openly interested in an SS romance.
 
I admit (as you likely now know if you read this entire post), that I am against SS romances.    Call me homophobic, I honestly don’t care. And I’m not trying to offend anyone who is gay or wants to pursue SS romance. But some people need to understand that SS romances, while interesting and desirable for some, can be potentially upsetting for others.

"add one or two new LIs (James Vegas, for example) who might be openly interested in an SS romance." Casey said there will be no new LI

Casey debunked that via Twitter. Apperantly, things change in development between the magazine interview and few days ago. 

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

One thing I've learned on this forum recently is that a lot of you people put an insane amount of importance on a person's sexuality in defining their personality.

It's part funny and part sad. Everyone tries to hide behind the "Oh, I only object from a storytelling POV." but... really? There are so many other things you should be complaining about if storytelling is your primary concern. Ye doth protest too much.

I'm gonna do a bit of devil advocation here....

I would say that people are kinda right when they put a character sexualtity "up there" when defining the character.

Take the movie "Dog Day Afternoon". Al Pachino robs a bank (of course), takes hostages (of course), has his "wife" come (of course).... standard affair right? Wrong. Turns out his "wife" his actually a pre-op transexual. 

If you say that didn't change your view of the character and at the same time shock you: your lying.

Sexuality is a large part of life. It's what people think about for a good portion of their lives (if statistics are to be believed) and, it does influence our opinions on people (for better or worse). 

Modifié par Fat Headed Wolf, 16 mai 2011 - 04:10 .

[atheelogos]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

One thing I've learned on this forum recently is that a lot of you people put an insane amount of importance on a person's sexuality in defining their personality.

It's part funny and part sad. Everyone tries to hide behind the "Oh, I only object from a storytelling POV." but... really? There are so many other things you should be complaining about if storytelling is your primary concern. Ye doth protest too much.

Good lord where the hell have u been? lol;)

[Zjarcal]

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...
Has Casey confirmed Male shep will pursue SS romances, or just that they will be available?

Facepalming is the only logical answer to this... 

But in the interest of actually contributing, I can assure that your fabulous "gays scare me" Male Shep will not pursue any roosters unless you explicitly want him to.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 16 mai 2011 - 04:16 .

[-Skorpious-]

RiotLaFontaine wrote...

Although Garrus DOES have many lines in ME1 and ME2 that are "bi-friendly" - one can even look at the mentor/apprentice relationship he has with Shepard in ME1.  It would be a natural development of their friendship, especially in a time of war, and some of us were examining this very possibility in the months prior to ME2's launch (and there was ample enough material and suggestions even at that time).  It wouldn't be OOC or unnatural for him to be bisexual since the seeds are already in place.  It's not something that's an instantaneous revelation, but something that needs to develop over time as all relationships do, just as it occurred for femShep in ME2 - they had to build up to it over the span of two games; who's to say it can't take three games for Garrus and maleShep to consider and develop the possibility of romance between them?

So it's not necessarily out-of-character and neither does Garrus say he isn't bi.  I'd also like to point out that even though Garrus is able to have a relationship with femShep in ME2, nowhere in ME1 does he indicate his sexual orientation or his interest in Shepard or his ability to entertain an interspecies relationship.

So . . . . I don't see how it would be a drastic change, because it certainly would not be one.

YMMV, as I didn't see that connection at all when playing ME/ME2.

Anyways, most of us are upset that Bioware may decide to needlessly change traits about previous characters when they could just as easily incorporate said features into new characters such as Vega. Fans of previous romances get their continuity and fans of SS romances get new, original romances.

Everybody wins. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 16 mai 2011 - 04:08 .

[atheelogos]

MACharlie1 wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...

First, I want to say that if pro S/S romance topics are allowed on this forum, then anti S/S romance topics should be allowed as well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I personally don’t get the fascination with same sex romances. Please read this entire post before you attack/judge.
 
Bioware, don’t screw this up. This sounds like it could be one of the best games in history – and based on what we’ve heard so far, it’s starting to look that way.   However, Casey’s tweet about same sex romances and LIs in ME3 is potentially devastating.
 
I understand Liara (and Kelly Chambers, I guess) are already considered S/S LIs. That’s fine. However, ME3 will be RUINED if, all of a sudden, a large proportion of existing characters turn out to be bi. It will honestly ruin the epicness of the series. Miranda, Thane, Garrus, Tali, Jacob… male shep – all bi? Don’t you see how this could make people who don’t share the views of those who post in the “Fight for the Love thread” a tad uncomfortable?
 
Proposed Solution – A compromise
In the world of Mass Effect, it is impossible to please everyone, because each player gets to create their own canon (a big reason why it is one of the best game series ever). If you must, make a small number of the current LIs interested in the same sex (like Kaiden and Jack). Don’t make it available for every character, and don’t even hint at it in the slightest for those who have romanced a different sex in ME 1 and 2. In addition, add one or two new LIs (James Vegas, for example) who might be openly interested in an SS romance.
 
I admit (as you likely now know if you read this entire post), that I am against SS romances.    Call me homophobic, I honestly don’t care. And I’m not trying to offend anyone who is gay or wants to pursue SS romance. But some people need to understand that SS romances, while interesting and desirable for some, can be potentially upsetting for others.

"add one or two new LIs (James Vegas, for example) who might be openly interested in an SS romance." Casey said there will be no new LI

Casey debunked that via Twitter. Apperantly, things change in development between the magazine interview and few days ago. 

Something didn't seem right when I wrote that so thank you for that confirm:)

[RaenImrahl]

@antique_nova-- people are trying to have a serious discussion here-- no trolling. You've been warned.

For the rest... let's keep this discussion on subject and not take pot shots at others. You're welcome to discuss ideas and perspectives... but not to accuse one another of prosecuting a specific agenda.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
It's telling how you believe "awareness" to be people just agreeing with your opinion. Considering how poorly Bioware has handled this in the past I think the response is appropriate. Moreso because "you people" are indeed demanding everybody become bisexual.

Statistics are still going to apply in the future. This entire concept of "Shepard-sexuals" is a story-telling fault on par with the worst of them.

"We people" are not demanding anything.  The final decision is BioWare's and always will be.  Trying to blame "the gay agenda" is a hilarious thing you guys sometimes do.

As for the awareness, no, it's not about you agreeing with but about knowing the facts.  You seemed to imply that heterosexuality is necessary for reproduction when it most certainly is not.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Fuzrum77 wrote...
While what you're saying may be true, everyone in this thread is talking about it...because it happens to be the topic of the thread. And the romance option (gay or not) with Anders in DA2 ruined that character. But that was just one issue I had with DA 2. I've got a bucket-full of problems with that game. I just don't want them to ruin some wonderful characters in the ME series like they did in the DA series.

If the relationship ruined Anders' character for you then I daresay you have some tolerance issues.  Unless you mean simply that the romance was poorly written (I wouldn't know since I wasn't interested and ignored it [funny how such things can be accomplished when romances are optional content]).

I think some people are worried about a Jacob situation.

I will say that my Femshep's attitude toward Jacob ruined him as a character for me for a while. I got over it once I "locked in" another romance and my Femshep stopped talking to him in that particular way, but for a while there it was touch and go.

And I'm sorry, but I want to talk to everyone on my ship. If I can't talk to someone without putting on a sultry voice, then something is amiss. That said, enough people complained about the Jacob romance that I doubt they'd do the same thing again, for either gender.

[Isaidlunch]

ReconTeam wrote...

It's telling how you believe "awareness" to be people just agreeing with your opinion. Considering how poorly Bioware has handled this in the past I think the response is appropriate. Moreso because "you people" are indeed demanding everybody become bisexual.

Statistics are still going to apply in the future. This entire concept of "Shepard-sexuals" is a story-telling fault on par with the worst of them.

Who is "you people" and where are they demanding that everybody becomes bisexual in ME3? Because I certainly don't see anything like that in this thread.

[DoNuTwInGs]

What's done is done, all I hope for is Bioware doesn't ruin characters by suddenly making them bisexual, when they've shown zero interest in the past games. Let whatever new characters be bisexual or whatever, and the option to avoid it completely be simple, fast, and neutral.

[Fuzrum77]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Fuzrum77 wrote...
While what you're saying may be true, everyone in this thread is talking about it...because it happens to be the topic of the thread. And the romance option (gay or not) with Anders in DA2 ruined that character. But that was just one issue I had with DA 2. I've got a bucket-full of problems with that game. I just don't want them to ruin some wonderful characters in the ME series like they did in the DA series.

If the relationship ruined Anders' character for you then I daresay you have some tolerance issues.  Unless you mean simply that the romance was poorly written (I wouldn't know since I wasn't interested and ignored it [funny how such things can be accomplished when romances are optional content]).

Well yes, apparently -everybody- has tolerance issues according to many of your passive-agressive, holier than thou art posts. But yes the relationship ruined the character, because unless I was a total jerk-wad to the guy, he seemed to assume I was in love with him and wouldn't let me hear the end of it. (And yes the writing sucked too. Was happy as all get out to kill him in the end....freakin' terrorist)

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
I never said I "promoted making everyone bisexual".  I don't really care, since I know who I want to romance and the other people's sexualities won't even come up in my game.  See, I have the ability to know what's being put in place for the sake of the videogame and reaching multiple demographics.  Not everything has to satisfy my personal biases and what I find plausible through modern "statistics".

No, my standpoint here is that you have no idea whether or not these people are being written as "suddenly changing sexuality", or if they've always been bisexual and merely pursue their relationships differently, or if they did consider themselves straight before and fell in love with a specific person.

There are many ways this can occur in naturally and well-written ways.  I think some of you have deeper agendas then you'd care to admit.

Oh but you clearly do care judging from how your defending it. You have the ability to know what's being put in place? Really now? Well enlighten us then. "Statistics"? Are you really going to claim the majority of humanity isn't straight?

Like I said, considering Bioware's record so far, I can understand the lack of faith. The argument that "they've always been bisexual" is just as bad writing as them suddenly deciding they're gay for Shepard.

Deeper agendas? Is the part where you tell us we're all closet homosexuals because we don't want characters suddenly turning bisexual? I love this part of the discussion.

[MACharlie1]

DoNuTwInGs wrote...

What's done is done, all I hope for is Bioware doesn't ruin characters by suddenly making them bisexual, when they've shown zero interest in the past games. Let whatever new characters be bisexual or whatever, and the option to avoid it completely be simple, fast, and neutral.

I suppose it might be too much to ask that people remember DA II and ME are made by two TOTALLY different teams. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I think some people are worried about a Jacob situation.

I will say that my Femshep's attitude toward Jacob ruined him as a character for me for a while. I got over it once I "locked in" another romance and my Femshep stopped talking to him in that particular way, but for a while there it was touch and go.

And I'm sorry, but I want to talk to everyone on my ship. If I can't talk to someone without putting on a sultry voice, then something is amiss. That said, enough people complained about the Jacob romance that I doubt they'd do the same thing again, for either gender.

That's a valid point, but it has nothing to do with the orientations of the characters and everything to do with A) the voice acting, the voice directing, and C) the voice applications by the devs.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 mai 2011 - 04:11 .

[onelifecrisis]

DoNuTwInGs wrote...

all I hope for is Bioware doesn't ruin characters by suddenly making them bisexual

They've already confirmed that they're going to do exactly that. All that remains to be seen is which characters and how well they (Bioware) handle the transition.

[Lenimph]

 Anyway...   all I have to say is this:    Shepard will be
       
to get rid of those reapers... 

Modifié par Lenimph, 16 mai 2011 - 04:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Agreed completely with the OP.

[Xilizhra]

Well yes, apparently -everybody- has tolerance issues according to many of your passive-agressive, holier than thou art posts. But yes the relationship ruined the character, because unless I was a total jerk-wad to the guy, he seemed to assume I was in love with him and wouldn't let me hear the end of it. (And yes the writing sucked too. Was happy as all get out to kill him in the end....freakin' terrorist)

So I assume that your issue was with the way the relationship period was written? Because he does that to both genders. It's a flaw, but it has nothing to do with bisexuality.

Like I said, considering Bioware's record so far, I can understand the lack of faith. The argument that "they've always been bisexual" is just as bad writing as them suddenly deciding they're gay for Shepard.

In your opinion. Claiming that this is some sort of gospel objectivity is... unsettling.

Deeper agendas? Is the part where you tell us we're all closet homosexuals because we don't want characters suddenly turning bisexual? I love this part of the discussion.

Well, you are an admitted homophobe.

[thatguy212]

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

[MACharlie1]

ReconTeam wrote...

 The argument that "they've always been bisexual" is just as bad writing as them suddenly deciding they're gay for Shepard.

Last page I gave an possible example that might suitable. I'll repost it. 

Let's say Kaidan was in convo with Male Shepard. They're talking and suddenly Kaidan mentions that he had a boyfriend once. Would it be accectable if Shepard can give a "Wait. You had a boyfriend? I had no idea you were attracted to that sort of thing." And Kaidan would reply in a "Well...yeah. Not big deal. Whatever." And then continue with his story and then leads into Shep "I should go" or some flirty response which would tick the romance. 

Basically what I'm trying to ask is, if it was addressed in one line, would it be a character derailment? Kaidan never expressed any interest before nor did he express any adversion. And like what is being said, Shepard (and players) would assume that he's straight and Shepard is reacting realistically.

This might be a little bit of a far stretch but would it be bad writing to also have Kaidan be a great ballroom dancer (I know the Kaidan fangirls are swooning right now imagining this) or Ashley be a terrific basketball player? 

[SilentNukee]

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

It wouldn't, because you won't be affected by it. People are just worried for nothing.

[Paraxial]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
"We people" are not demanding anything.  The final decision is BioWare's and always will be.  Trying to blame "the gay agenda" is a hilarious thing you guys sometimes do.

Flawless.