238 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
"We people" are not demanding anything.  The final decision is BioWare's and always will be.  Trying to blame "the gay agenda" is a hilarious thing you guys sometimes do.

As for the awareness, no, it's not about you agreeing with but about knowing the facts.  You seemed to imply that heterosexuality is necessary for reproduction when it most certainly is not.

Oh I'm not chalking it to a massive conspiracy. Rather it is the effort of a few determined fanatics with a sense of entitlement. "You people" (as you also called us BTW) are indeed making demands.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but I've seen otherwise. One's level of "awareness" tends to pertains only to if they follow the opinion of the group "raising awareness." What is possible doesn't change the numbers.

[Xilizhra]

By "you guys" I assume that she's referring to the people posting in support of this thread.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
"We people" are not demanding anything.  The final decision is BioWare's and always will be.  Trying to blame "the gay agenda" is a hilarious thing you guys sometimes do.

Flawless.

I don't normally point stuff like this out, but that was darn funny. 

[Golden Owl]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I'm not against straight people, but I seriously hope there are no added straight relationships in ME3.

Like Gianna in ME2? What the crap? She showed no interest in dudes in ME1; it totally ruined the epicness of the game. Seriously, no more straight content. It's horrible writing and I do NOT want to see it.

Did I mention I'm not against straight relationships? Just don't add any new ones to people who are not introduced with an "I AM ALL ABOUT HETERO SEX" in a previous game.

kthx

Of course Gianna showed no interest in ME1, why would she? Who's Shep to her...nobody...and his a Spectre, she makes it quite clear she is no fan of Spectre's...But then he does help her...not what she really expected from a Spectre, he gains her respect and its no stretch of the imagination that respect can lead to interest....thus her response to him in ME2.

As for for no new LI's for 'straight' in ME3...why not? That my man Shep has no interest in men dressed as women....my apologies to fans of various LI's here...I just see it as a strong woman does not need to be a ball breaker to be a strong woman....I'm for both s/s and non psychotic, ruthless or immune weak choices for 'straights' too in ME3.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
Oh but you clearly do care judging from how your defending it. You have the ability to know what's being put in place? Really now? Well enlighten us then. "Statistics"? Are you really going to claim the majority of humanity isn't straight?

Like I said, considering Bioware's record so far, I can understand the lack of faith. The argument that "they've always been bisexual" is just as bad writing as them suddenly deciding they're gay for Shepard.

Deeper agendas? Is the part where you tell us we're all closet homosexuals because we don't want characters suddenly turning bisexual? I love this part of the discussion.

A) The Mass Effect universe is not earth.  I can point to all kinds of "statistics" about how certain things act in our reality that won't be reflected in Mass Effect.  My point is that your insistence that these "statistics" are arbitrarily selected by you personally to be deemed as important.  They're just statistics.  If 8 random people in real life happened to befriend you and you learned they were all bisexual over time you might be surprised but you'd not question it.  But in a sci fi alternate reality videogame these statistics suddenly carry vast importance? lolwut

"They've always been bisexual" is not really writing.  It's a summary of a possible condition.  You can not say the writing is bad until you witness it.  You're judging a potential summary, which is pretty much judging a book by it's cover.

C) No, I don't think you're all closet homosexuals.  I suspect some of you might be homophobic on some levels, though, given the persistence to abolish a perceived "switch" in sexuality of a character in which you're probably invested.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, you are an admitted homophobe.

Only by your bass ackwards standards of "homophobia." AKA "you're a homophobe if you don't agree with us."

[Alpha-Centuri]

ReconTeam wrote...

Oh but you clearly do care judging from how your defending it. You have the ability to know what's being put in place? Really now? Well enlighten us then. "Statistics"? Are you really going to claim the majority of humanity isn't straight?

Like I said, considering Bioware's record so far, I can understand the lack of faith. The argument that "they've always been bisexual" is just as bad writing as them suddenly deciding they're gay for Shepard.

Deeper agendas? Is the part where you tell us we're all closet homosexuals because we don't want characters suddenly turning bisexual? I love this part of the discussion.

This x100.

However, what RiotLaFontaine was doing is good, and helps to establish stuff that could be excused as overlooked. Its actually pretty well-reasoned, and while it might* be a little stretch, its FAR better than the Shepardsexual.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 16 mai 2011 - 04:19 .

[diskoh]

OP of this thread is arguing against a straw man and this thread as a result is worthless. Nobody has suggested, hinted at, or expects every character or a majority of them to be bi. Your "compromise" is what we (Fight for the Love people) have been asking for the whole time: One or two same sex romance options for each gender. Simple as that.

Modifié par diskoh, 16 mai 2011 - 04:20 .

[Xilizhra]

ReconTeam wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, you are an admitted homophobe.

Only by your bass ackwards standards of "homophobia." AKA "you're a homophobe if you don't agree with us."

I believe you said, pretty much verbatim, that you don't approve of homosexuality.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Xilizhra wrote...
By "you guys" I assume that she's referring to the people posting in support of this thread.

I was referring to the people with which I am currently arguing, yes.  I wasn't painting everyone with a "you guys = anti-gays" brush, or something.

[VoidCabbage]

I'm very Pro same sex relationships... and as far as Don't even hint at it if... No, you need to not be afraid of these things, or at least not expect others to hide you from it.

But I also understand the arguments about continuity and such. That said I don't think its been established that any character is 100% straight and so this leaves room to grow for all characters.

Honestly though, I don't see it going well with Garrus, he's one of my favorite characters and I've done all the convos and it just seems like at some point it would have come up. Then again Bioware has excellent writers and I believe they could make it happen in a believable way.

I also like the idea that not all characters be Bi...It makes sense that not everyone is Bi.. just because well, not everyone is Bi.

But what I would love to see most is if the gay or bi characters didn't leave their gay or bi-ness for one possible conversation choice unlock. Embrace it, have Kaiden or James Vega make remarks about other dudes, or just talk about it even if you aren't pursuing a relationship.

Ones sexuality is an important part of who they are and if we're going to get into continuity and the story telling and integrity and all that... Lets actually start having this effect the story telling (outside of the players LI)

I'd personally love to see a female who's only a femshep LI option. I mean I don't think its gonna happen but I think that it would be interesting.

[RaenImrahl]

One more time: this discussion *must* proceed without labeling people. Otherwise it will be locked.

[jlb524]

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

I'm still waiting for a solid answer on that one too...

I think it's the idea that sexuality is some big character trait.

I see 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' and 'bisexual' more as social identities that do affect how we our perceived (in our society b/c it's important) and there are some shared experiences all homosexuals or heterosexuals will have (for example, homosexuals can't marry in certain U.S. states).

However, individuals within each group widely vary, so I can't see what this magical 'gay character trait' or 'bisexual character trait' is that all share.

[Xilizhra]

RaenImrahl wrote...

One more time: this discussion *must* proceed without labeling people. Otherwise it will be locked.

And for the life of me, I can't imagine why that would be a bad thing.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Xilizhra wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, you are an admitted homophobe.

Only by your bass ackwards standards of "homophobia." AKA "you're a homophobe if you don't agree with us."

I believe you said, pretty much verbatim, that you don't approve of homosexuality.

I don't approve of people who don't put their blinkers on before the get in another lane.

I don't think he's homophobic, he might be a bit biased though. Then again, we are all biased; we can't not be (ahhh double negative)

[Insom]

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

[Xilizhra]

I don't approve of people who don't put their blinkers on before the get in another lane.

That translates to disapproval of an action that has potential to cause harm to others; it isn't really the same thing.

[Terminus8]

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

Exactly.

The worst part about this? There was a lesbian shepard option already, and of course this was deemed perfectly acceptable and went under the radar. But the second you put m/m in there, all these damn kids start crying. Double standards much guys? Get over yourselves. 

I'm a bisexual male and I sure as hell want this. If you don't want it, don't persue it. Stop crying just because people like me are actually thrown a (literal?) bone for once. 

Thank you Casey. Even if I don't get Garrus like I'd want, thank you for at least thinking about people like me. Thank you for not letting these kids overshadow my voice with their trollish intollerance and biggotry. 

[Destroy Raiden_]

I was wondering when this thread would show up I'm pretty sure BW will shut it down cuz you can't have anti peeps on the boards now can they? The only compromise I'd be open to is leave all current ME - ME2 LIs out of the s/s equation they have been in the official game that was released to the public straight or not interested. Instead new potential recruits like Vegas can show interest with their s/s sheps. This way those people who had their Tali thoroughly ingrained in their minds as best friends with their fshep keep it that way and those who had Garrus as their bro keep that all while Miranda is her LI.

People will say the script was in there and they modded everyone in past games to be gay but that's exactly what you did you changed code said make Jack love fshep and the lines that were most likely deliberately left for said modders was inserted you had to change code to get that no matter how much of a spin you want to put on it you still had to put in work to achieve alter the circumstances to meet that goal. What was released to the non mod public was what we got straight or not interested crewmen.

And of course some will argue sexual orientation doesn't inflict damage on the character or doesn't change them but to some players it does change them the players perception of their favorite character is forever stigmatized as so and so hit on my same sexed shep! And as we saw with Jacob players will never speak to their favorite character again so as they can pretend that character is still their friend and not interested in them sexually.

The player will also go into 3 if past LIs suddenly gain the s/s script will concisely by some, unconsciously by other not play truly how they want because they know so and so could start up the I want you same sexed shep at any point you limit this persons interaction to minefield avoidance selection. Similar to how we all get railroaded with the para/ren meter in ME2 you avoid choosing that ren response because you need enough para to get that blue option later but instead it's can't speak up right too many times within a neutral conversation with Joker because then he'll be hitting on my mshep with wanting to give shep private flying lessons on the night shift so players will speak neutral most times to joker when they truly wanted to upper right him or ignore him or go all ren so the potential interest convo never occurs.

[diskoh]

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi.

Which character has declared they are straight?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
A) The Mass Effect universe is not earth.  I can point to all kinds of "statistics" about how certain things act in our reality that won't be reflected in Mass Effect.  My point is that your insistence that these "statistics" are arbitrarily selected by you personally to be deemed as important.  They're just statistics.  If 8 random people in real life happened to befriend you and you learned they were all bisexual over time you might be surprised but you'd not question it.  But in a sci fi alternate reality videogame these statistics suddenly carry vast importance? lolwut

"They've always been bisexual" is not really writing.  It's a summary of a possible condition.  You can not say the writing is bad until you witness it.  You're judging a potential summary, which is pretty much judging a book by it's cover.

C) No, I don't think you're all closet homosexuals.  I suspect some of you might be homophobic on some levels, though, given the persistence to abolish a perceived "switch" in sexuality of a character in which you're probably invested.

A. Yet the Mass Effect universe is based off the history of the real universe. Meaning that humanity isn't going to be radically different. The fact that such a scenario could occur (however unlikely) IRL is no justification for copying such a scenario in the game.

B. It is all based around the writing of the character. We are also going by the assumption that all LIs will be bisexual, a decision which you evidently would support.

C. Oh the "you're all homophobic" one isn't quite as entertaining, but it is equally absurd. Yes, I'm homophobic for not wanting Bioware to pander to the crowd who wants all of these characters to be bisexual now. I'm such a terrible person.

[Paraxial]

> Apparently you can't be opposed to the changing of already established characters without being labeled a homophobe.

> Apparently you can't be for the changing of already established characters without being labeled a gay crusader.

The eloquence and civility of these forums never ceases to amaze and humble me.

---------------

Oh, also:

Xilizhra wrote...
And for the life of me, I can't imagine why that would be a bad thing.

"No discussing things that I don't agree with."

Modifié par Bible Doctor, 16 mai 2011 - 04:26 .

[Xilizhra]

And of course some will argue sexual orientation doesn't inflict damage on the character or doesn't change them but to some players it does change them the players perception of their favorite character is forever stigmatized as so and so hit on my same sexed shep!

That is, quite frankly, their own damned problem.

[Alpha-Centuri]

VoidCabbage wrote...

-snip-

Ones sexuality is an important part of who they are and if we're going to get into continuity and the story telling and integrity and all that... Lets actually start having this effect the story telling (outside of the players LI)

I'd personally love to see a female who's only a femshep LI option. I mean I don't think its gonna happen but I think that it would be interesting.

Great post, and akin to the original point of [Turian airquotes] Compromise [/Turian Airquotes]

[Lenimph]

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

-.- Apparently there is no such thing called "hiding your feelings" in the Mass Effect world. 

They made Tali like Shepard even though they she didn't in the first game.  How do you know Garrus isn't stalking MSHEP