238 réponses à ce sujet

[DoNuTwInGs]

But what I would love to see most is if the gay or bi characters didn't leave their gay or bi-ness for one possible conversation choice unlock. Embrace it, have Kaiden or James Vega make remarks about other dudes, or just talk about it even if you aren't pursuing a relationship.

That's something that should NOT happen. When you say "No" in the previous games to any possible relationship, that ends it for the game. So it should most definitely NOT be like how you want it. That's asking for too much and going too far.

[Xilizhra]

> Apparently you can't be opposed to the changing of already established characters without being labeled a homophobe.

You can, but homophobes swarm to these sorts of discussions to the extent that telling them apart from those who are worried about changing continuity only can be difficult.

[naledgeborn]

How does this sound to people who want S/S?

It think lots of people is this thread are "heterophobic" because they fully endorse breaking character continuity and retconning the sexuality of said characters.

Not nice is it? Because, I don't want to see Garrus, Kaidan, Tali, Ashley, ect. do a 180 and "come out" does not make me or anyone else that agrees a homophobe by default. Thank you.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I think some people are worried about a Jacob situation.

I will say that my Femshep's attitude toward Jacob ruined him as a character for me for a while. I got over it once I "locked in" another romance and my Femshep stopped talking to him in that particular way, but for a while there it was touch and go.

And I'm sorry, but I want to talk to everyone on my ship. If I can't talk to someone without putting on a sultry voice, then something is amiss. That said, enough people complained about the Jacob romance that I doubt they'd do the same thing again, for either gender.

That's a valid point, but it has nothing to do with the orientations of the characters and everything to do with A) the voice acting, the voice directing, and C) the voice applications of the devs.

True, but some people may find it more disconcerting if someone they consider a platonic friend starts to do this than someone they just met who already belongs to an organization they don't like.  Bioware is going to have to be a lot more careful here, I think. I have a Femshep who would want to romance Tali, but I'd feel weird if Kasumi started hitting on any of my femsheps... she's always been my best girlbro, and turning her down would be weird.

Also, I liked it when Kaidan flirted with me throughout all of ME1. If he's available to both genders, will they have to tone down his flirtiness with girls so that he doesn't turn into an "Anders situation"? Or will they make the romance take different tracks depending on gender? These are also valid worries... that the new direction of the writing will limit the options that developers have to make romances feel "deep" or "spontaneous." It's a huge challenge to make a romance feel deep, or flirty, while still locking it out for people who don't want to feel pressured into pursuing a romance they don't want. I know quite a few femsheps who have that problem with ME1 Kaidan, but ME1 Kaidan is one of the most popular relationships because of that flirtiness and depth. To do this right, Bioware is trying to figure out a way to give us all the cakes, so we can have them and also eat them.

I think there are four or five different ways Bioware can approach this that can work, but I also think we have to acknowledge that it is a big design challenge. I think it's definitely possible to pull it off, though.

On the first page of this thread I suggest a single dialogue early on that either locks you firmly into flirt mode or locks you firmly into friend mode. I think that's one solution.

There are some other possible solutions, but most of them would work better if they had been implemented from early on. I've suggested an in-game, built-in "enable all romances" flag before, but a lot of people don't like that idea, and I can understand why. It's still tempting to suggest, just because it seems like the easiest way to make everyone pretty happy.

[corporal doody]

im all for the inclusion of s/s relationships in ME3....but i dont want the relationships to come off as cheaply done...rather...a character is now open to a gay relationship just for the sake of a gay relationship.

I see nothing wrong with a character that didnt come out and say "i prefer the opposite sex" being considered BI/Gay in ME3. not ALL characters mind you...just a few.
I would have a issue if that character says they dont play that and are now bi/gay (magic wand style)! i know there is dialogue that was recorded for LI that includes s/s stuff....but didnt make the game. JACK is the best example. IN GAME she SPECIFICALLY tells Femshep she isnt into the girl girl thing.

it would also be a shame to make some characters LI just for the sake of being LI. Samara, Kasumi, Zaeed (dude is spoken for...and her name is Jessi)!! it would take away from the lore! if anyone is to be a LI for the sake of being a LI...make Dr. Chakwas one!!!

since this is being done...i hope it is done right.

Modifié par corporal doody, 16 mai 2011 - 04:28 .

[MACharlie1]

Lenimph wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

-.- Apparently there is no such thing called "hiding your feelings" in the Mass Effect world. 

They made Tali like Shepard even though they she didn't in the first game.  How do you know Garrus isn't stalking MSHEP 

And apperantly everyone knows everything about everything. Chicken pox in third grade? Shep knew that. Bite nails? Shep knew that also. <_< 

[Esbatty]

Garrus: Well Commander, you know, it's strange... I... I think I may be gay. um, I saw this penis on the Extranet today, and I thought to myself, "Well that's just fine!"

[Xilizhra]

naledgeborn wrote...

How does this sound to people who want S/S?

It think lots of people is this thread are "heterophobic" because they fully endorse breaking character continuity and retconning the sexuality of said characters.

Not nice is it? Because, I don't want to see Garrus, Kaidan, Tali, Ashley, ect. do a 180 and "come out" does not make me or anyone else that agrees a homophobe by default. Thank you.

Whether this is true or not depends on your reasoning. As I said before, it's entirely possible for it to be honest, though being this defensive about it doesn't bode well. I don't agree that it would break character, but you can obviously think so.
However, do be aware of the company you keep.

[AdmiralCheez]

Guys, I'm really just expecting ONE m/m option out of this.

I don't think the Normandy's going to turn into a brothel.

[diskoh]

Lenimph wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

-.- Apparently there is no such thing called "hiding your feelings" in the Mass Effect world. 

They made Tali like Shepard even though they she didn't in the first game.  How do you know Garrus isn't stalking MSHEP 

Exactly. They act like all of the ME1 and ME2 squadmates signed official declarations of their straightness and couldn't possibly ever have any kind of feelings otherwise or it's a retcon and ruining their character. All the while conveniently forgetting that multiple characters showed no interest in ME1 only to later be romance options in ME2 with perfectly reasonable explanations.

Like all anti-gay arguments, it lacks logic.

[CheeseEnchilada]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Siona wrote...

Except this proves nothing. I'm a bisexual player; I talk about my male ex to others, does this mean if I don't mention my female exes in the same breath, I'm straight?

No, and what I think what you are forgetting about is perception. If you only talk about your male ex, and never your female ex, you shouldn't be shocked that people think you are straight. Early in the thread, someone (paraphrasing here) said that it shouldn't come as a shock, and that its your fault for thinking that. As rational human beings, we use the evidence around us and make judgements. It might not be the correct choice, but it is what we do to function as humans

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck... people are going to think its a duck.

You talk about your male ex 24/7 without once mentioning or insinuating having a female ex, people are going to think you are straight.

Theres been no evidence at all that the current squad characters are bi (save for Jack and Tali *LOTSB*).


[Edit] Note: Im not saying that its not possible that they could be gay. It would just be a surprise and come out of the nowhere. Also, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be S/S. But they should establish S/S characters.

This post sums up my feelings in a much more eloquent way than I could ever express. 

Making real-life comparisons, especially when talking about sexuality is hard, and the fact of the matter is that you only have a few conversations with these characters. They have a few defining characteristics, tell you a few things about their background, and you make a judgement of who they are from there. There are no 'throw-away' conversations, and so it's an assumption that they're laying out their character for you right there. Later stating that they're bisexual would turn some heads, mainly because it wasn't alluded to in one of those all-important dialogs.

Of course, YMMV. This is just how I view the game, and the characters (since I tend to think of them specifically as 'characters', and not 'people')

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
A. Yet the Mass Effect universe is based off the history of the real universe. Meaning that humanity isn't going to be radically different. The fact that such a scenario could occur (however unlikely) IRL is no justification for copying such a scenario in the game.

B. It is all based around the writing of the character. We are also going by the assumption that all LIs will be bisexual, a decision which you evidently would support.

A) Of course it is.  You said yourself that the game is based on reality.  If such a thing can happen in reality then it should be capable of happening in Mass Effect.  Add to that the simple fact that the words "based off" gives undeniable room to alter things slightly (like inventing technology, aliens, social norms, etc) and we have something that should not be an issue, yet is made an issue because you personally don't accept it.  You're allowed not to accept it, but your not accepting it does not inherently make it bad writing.

Again, I wouldn't care if they were all bisexual.  It wouldn't affect my gameplay other than being able to pursue a relationship with someone I may like.  I wouldn't think less of any of the characters for being bisexual, especially when I have the option to never see this supposed bisexuality in any form.  It's an absurd thing to complain about.

[Lenimph]

Esbatty wrote...

Garrus: Well Commander, you know, it's strange... I... I think I may be gay. um, I saw this penis on the Extranet today, and I thought to myself, "Well that's just fine!"

You know I see Garrus as more of a top then a bottom...

Poor Mshep... or yay for Mshep? 
Working hard....

[Inquisitor Recon]

Xilizhra wrote...
I believe you said, pretty much verbatim, that you don't approve of homosexuality.

No I don't personally approve of homosexuality, yet I respect one's right to do what they want as long as they leave me out of it. My personal societal, moral, and religious views don't make me a homophobe. I am tolerant and treat people equally which is what matters. Not "politically correct" viewpoints and ideologies. Now you can call me a homophobe for it but I will not support what I see to be an extreme level of pandering, especially to a "cause" that I don't support or benefit from.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 16 mai 2011 - 04:30 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

DoNuTwInGs wrote...

But what I would love to see most is if the gay or bi characters didn't leave their gay or bi-ness for one possible conversation choice unlock. Embrace it, have Kaiden or James Vega make remarks about other dudes, or just talk about it even if you aren't pursuing a relationship.

That's something that should NOT happen. When you say "No" in the previous games to any possible relationship, that ends it for the game. So it should most definitely NOT be like how you want it. That's asking for too much and going too far.

I disagree from a fictional world standpoint. If someone's gay, they are gay. It shouldn't be because Shepard allows (lol) them to be. Its better storytelling imo when people have set sexualities,personalities, etc.. I think the game is too Shepard-essential as is.

[atheelogos]

aksoileau wrote...

I was surprised they caved in on this issue. But whatever I guess.

Caved? You make it sound like they didn't want to do this. It's simple my friend. Everything in a game is put there because the devs wanted to make it. If they didn't want to do gay romance they wouldn't.

[jlb524]

naledgeborn wrote...

It think lots of people is this thread are "heterophobic" because they fully endorse breaking character continuity and retconning the sexuality of said characters.

I think it's more the case where people want to romance their fave characters with their preferred gender.

[corporal doody]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Guys, I'm really just expecting ONE m/m option out of this.

I don't think the Normandy's going to turn into a brothel.

V/S would work out GREAT for this. It would give a great amount of impact to the reaction on Horizon...the conflict inside. amore? dunno

[Paraxial]

Xilizhra wrote...
though being this defensive about it doesn't bode well.

I could hang in this thread all night quoting the hypocrisy, but i'm going to go make some chocolate milk.

[Esbatty]

Lenimph wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

Garrus: Well Commander, you know, it's strange... I... I think I may be gay. um, I saw this penis on the Extranet today, and I thought to myself, "Well that's just fine!"

You know I see Garrus as more of a top then a bottom...

Poor Mshep... or yay for Mshep? 
Working hard....

Commander Shepard is not an ELF! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES

[RaenImrahl]

@Esbatty and @Lenimph - over the line. Troll this discussion further and you'll be banned.

[Xilizhra]

ReconTeam wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I believe you said, pretty much verbatim, that you don't approve of homosexuality.

No I don't personally approve of homosexuality. Yet my personal societal, moral, and religious views don't make me a homophobe. I am tolerant and treat people equally which is what matters. Not "politically correct" viewpoints and ideologies. Now you can call me a homophobe for it but I will not support what I see to be an extreme level of pandering, especially to a "cause" that I don't support or benefit from.

Well, you're (supposedly) not an enormous dick in real life, which is something. Though your contempt for political correctness is amusing.
In general, I believe that your concerns about it being unnecessary pandering are entirely wrong and your argument in general weak.

[Eradyn]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Guys, I'm really just expecting ONE m/m option out of this.

I don't think the Normandy's going to turn into a brothel.

Haven't you been listening to these forums? There's a reason for Harbinger's lines; even the reapers are going after Shepard! It's going to be a whole damned orgy-fest.

Seriously, though.  I agree (hope?).  Unless BW is going to pull a DA2 on us, which apparently a number of people already support.  I don't, as I've repeatedly stated, but it is what it is.

[Insom]

Lenimph wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

-.- Apparently there is no such thing called "hiding your feelings" in the Mass Effect world. 

They made Tali like Shepard even though they she didn't in the first game.  How do you know Garrus isn't stalking MSHEP 

As of now there's more evidence to suggest Garrus is completely straight. He tells you a nice story about him and a female Turian. He has only ever mentioned he's into women in dialog.

[atheelogos]

DoNuTwInGs wrote...
when they've shown zero interest in the past games.

That's my fear as well.