238 réponses à ce sujet

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Xilizhra wrote...

> Apparently you can't be opposed to the changing of already established characters without being labeled a homophobe.

You can, but homophobes swarm to these sorts of discussions to the extent that telling them apart from those who are worried about changing continuity only can be difficult.

I'm pretty sure if a "homophobe" was in this thread you would know it. They tend to use a few words that I am too much of a gentlemen to repeat.

[SilentNukee]

diskoh wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi.

Which character has declared they are straight?

^^^^^ This, x1000.
No one has specifically announced their sexual preferences.
I don't care how much you love your favorite character, he/she has not announced if he/she was "straight", "bisexual" or "gay" at any point in time.
I don't care that they shared a little story with you involving a member of the opposite sex. It doesn't prove anything.
I don't care that you had a male on female or female on male sexual relation, that still doesn't prove anything.
Sexual identity doesn't stop a person from being the way they are. (So many people seem to think it does...)

Modifié par SilentNukee, 16 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[goofyomnivore]

I think people are overreacting. I would be shocked if it is anyone other than the VS who is the S/S LI. I doubt your bromance with Garrus is in danger of becoming a little closer than some may like.

[Xilizhra]

As of now there's more evidence to suggest Garrus is completely straight. He tells you a nice story about him and a female Turian. He has only ever mentioned he's into women in dialog.

So mentioning one woman in one conversation=totally straight?

[diskoh]

atheelogos wrote...

DoNuTwInGs wrote...
when they've shown zero interest in the past games.

That's my fear as well.

You're not giving enough credit to the writing. You guys are acting as if Kaidan is going to show up and say "Hey Shepard, I'm back and I'm GAAAAAAAAY!!!!"

It's going to be a well developed story through the course of the game and it's going to be very well written. This is Mass Effect. The best game series in the world.

[LeVaughnX]

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...

First, I want to say that if pro S/S romance topics are allowed on this forum, then anti S/S romance topics should be allowed as well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I personally don’t get the fascination with same sex romances. Please read this entire post before you attack/judge.
 
Bioware, don’t screw this up. This sounds like it could be one of the best games in history – and based on what we’ve heard so far, it’s starting to look that way.   However, Casey’s tweet about same sex romances and LIs in ME3 is potentially devastating.
 
I understand Liara (and Kelly Chambers, I guess) are already considered S/S LIs. That’s fine. However, ME3 will be RUINED if, all of a sudden, a large proportion of existing characters turn out to be bi. It will honestly ruin the epicness of the series. Miranda, Thane, Garrus, Tali, Jacob… male shep – all bi? Don’t you see how this could make people who don’t share the views of those who post in the “Fight for the Love thread” a tad uncomfortable?
 
Proposed Solution – A compromise
In the world of Mass Effect, it is impossible to please everyone, because each player gets to create their own canon (a big reason why it is one of the best game series ever). If you must, make a small number of the current LIs interested in the same sex (like Kaiden and Jack). Don’t make it available for every character, and don’t even hint at it in the slightest for those who have romanced a different sex in ME 1 and 2. In addition, add one or two new LIs (James Vegas, for example) who might be openly interested in an SS romance.
 
I admit (as you likely now know if you read this entire post), that I am against SS romances.    Call me homophobic, I honestly don’t care. And I’m not trying to offend anyone who is gay or wants to pursue SS romance. But some people need to understand that SS romances, while interesting and desirable for some, can be potentially upsetting for others.

To be honest I believe that certian characters have a "right" (so to speak) to be bi-sexual or whatever you'd want to call it. Jack - thats understandable. Kelly - also understandable. Jacob / Garrus - would not make sense. Thane would equally not make sense.

If you want to base the sexual standing of these characters based on a little something called LOGIC - then majority of them would not be bi-sexual. However if you based the sexuality on REALITY (unfortunite ain't it..) then everyone wuold be not only bi-sexual but what is known as "pan-sexual" which (to my knowledge) means that you'll engage in sexual activity with nearly anything living or lifeless - so to speak.

See in the game most of those characters didn't have a situation which pushed them to be bi-sexual; where as many bi-sexual trenders now a days want everything to be both ways so they can live out their lusty visions at the cost of logic and reason.

This could possibly become a horrid thing because if Bioware appeals to the ignorant and more trend-following community they will screw up an otherwise great game. Just like how Bioware MAY try to appeal to the Call of Halo people who focus more on a crappy un-ballanced multiplayer with limited (but falsely unrestricted) customization (basically the ability to IN THEORY create a character for yourself; but not really).


Please Bioware - listen to what George Carlin listens to...LOGIC AND REASON!

Thank you - LE.

[Placeholder1]

Terminus8 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

Exactly.

The worst part about this? There was a lesbian shepard option already, and of course this was deemed perfectly acceptable and went under the radar. But the second you put m/m in there, all these damn kids start crying. Double standards much guys? Get over yourselves. 

I'm a bisexual male and I sure as hell want this. If you don't want it, don't persue it. Stop crying just because people like me are actually thrown a (literal?) bone for once. 

Thank you Casey. Even if I don't get Garrus like I'd want, thank you for at least thinking about people like me. Thank you for not letting these kids overshadow my voice with their trollish intollerance and biggotry. 

The female shepard option was established in the first game if Garrus, Kaiden or whomever else had been able to engage in a romance with a male shepard in the first game than I would have no issue with it's inclusion into ME3 with those characters. However it wasn't I have no objection to Bioware adding new squadmates that players can pursue same sex relationships if they wish to I'm a stickler for consistency nothing else.

Also calling anyone who disagrees with you a "bigot" "kid" or "troll" won't help you make your point

Modifié par Placeholder1, 16 mai 2011 - 04:38 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
A) Of course it is.  You said yourself that the game is based on reality.  If such a thing can happen in reality then it should be capable of happening in Mass Effect.  Add to that the simple fact that the words "based off" gives undeniable room to alter things slightly (like inventing technology, aliens, social norms, etc) and we have something that should not be an issue, yet is made an issue because you personally don't accept it.  You're allowed not to accept it, but your not accepting it does not inherently make it bad writing.

Again, I wouldn't care if they were all bisexual.  It wouldn't affect my gameplay other than being able to pursue a relationship with someone I may like.  I wouldn't think less of any of the characters for being bisexual, especially when I have the option to never see this supposed bisexuality in any form.  It's an absurd thing to complain about.

Of course what is? Sure, if something is extremely unlikely IRL it is also extremely unlikely in the game? So how is this a justifaction for such a decision on Bioware's part? Their sexualitites should be grounded in some level of reality, not absurd, very unlikely, scenario like that you support. It is simply bad writing in an effort to pander to a small group.

B. Well I disagree with you. It is not absurd to complain about extremely poor writing or what one can easily consider a retcon based on what we know of these characters.

[atheelogos]

VoidCabbage wrote...

I'd personally love to see a female who's only a femshep LI option. I mean I don't think its gonna happen but I think that it would be interesting.

I would love this as well. Some of the best character development is when Shep is rejected by a potential LI.

[corporal doody]

SilentNukee wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi.

Which character has declared they are straight?

^^^^^ This, x1000.
No one has specifically announced their sexual preferences.
I don't care how much you love your favorite character, he/she has not announced if he/she was "straight", "bisexual" or "gay" at any point in time.
I don't care that you had a male on female or female on male sexual relation, that still doesn't prove anything.
Sexual identity doesn't stop a person from being the way they are. (So many people seem to think it does...)

jack is the only one i know of.  continue the dialogue with femshep and she says she isnt into the girl girl thing

[onelifecrisis]

This argument that characters like Garrus have never said they're not bi is pretty ridiculous. Wrex never said that he's not into flower arranging, but I think a lot of people would think it a little odd if in ME3 he declares it's always been one of his favourite passtimes.

diskoh wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

DoNuTwInGs wrote...
when they've shown zero interest in the past games.

That's my fear as well.

You're not giving enough credit to the writing. You guys are acting as if Kaidan is going to show up and say "Hey Shepard, I'm back and I'm GAAAAAAAAY!!!!"

That's exactly what happened with Tali in ME2. Hey Shepard, you're back and I always had the hots for you!

[diskoh]

ReconTeam wrote...

B. Well I disagree with you. It is not absurd to complain about extremely poor writing or what one can easily consider a retcon based on what we know of these characters.

You know about these characters exactly what they've told you. Which does not include their sexuality.

Was it a retcon to have Tali show interest in ME2 after not showing interest in ME1? Was it poor writing?

In my opinion, the answer to both is no.

[Ryzaki]

I'd be all for the s/s Lis being the new characters and them ONLY being s/s romances and not bi.

The fangirl/fanboy tears.

Plus I think that would be a fair compromise to the character continuity people.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Again, the "consistency" of these characters is not a lore consistency but a perceived consistency with your assumptions about them.

You can play ME1 and assume that Garrus is not into human women because he won't romance you.
Then you can play ME2 and have that assumption be proven incorrect.

You can play ME1 and ME2 and assume that Garrus is not bisexual because he can only romance a femShep.
Then you can play ME3 and maybe your assumption will be proven wrong.

Both cases are the same. If the former is not a lore inconsistency then neither is the latter. It is a personal inconsistency that is only inconsistent within your mind based on your own predispositions and assumptions.

[Ryzaki]

onelifecrisis wrote...

This argument that characters like Garrus have never said they're not bi is pretty ridiculous. Wrex never said that he's not into flower arranging, but I think a lot of people would think it a little odd if in ME3 he declares it's always been one of his favourite passtimes.

Depends. 

The Krogan planet seems like the kind of place to have flowers that try to eat you. 

Him arranging those would be perfectly in character. 

Also you haven't played DAO have you? The stoic mean guy plays with kittens.  

The assumption that just because someone is badass means they can't like flower arranging is wrong. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[SilentNukee]

corporal doody wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi.

Which character has declared they are straight?

^^^^^ This, x1000.
No one has specifically announced their sexual preferences.
I don't care how much you love your favorite character, he/she has not announced if he/she was "straight", "bisexual" or "gay" at any point in time.
I don't care that you had a male on female or female on male sexual relation, that still doesn't prove anything.
Sexual identity doesn't stop a person from being the way they are. (So many people seem to think it does...)

jack is the only one i know of.  continue the dialogue with femshep and she says she isnt into the girl girl thing

Yep, Jack is the only one if you choose to have a Paragon conversation with her as FemShep, but she also hints that she has played that field when you first talk to her. "Boyfriends or girlfriends." But she probably picked her path as straight, and that's the only character that truly does.

[onelifecrisis]

<double post because my last post vanished then re-appeared>

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 16 mai 2011 - 04:46 .

[CheeseEnchilada]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd be all for the s/s Lis being the new characters and them ONLY being s/s romances and not bi.

The fangirl/fanboy tears.

Plus I think that would be a fair compromise to the character continuity people.

I would love this. Make it happen.

[Raiders Fan 223]

diskoh wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

Insom wrote...

It's too late for them to add any gay relationships for male Shepard at this point and make squad members that are straight, bi. It would just ruin their credibility of making a consistent universe game to game if all of a sudden Garrus is hitting on you when you're a dude.

-.- Apparently there is no such thing called "hiding your feelings" in the Mass Effect world. 

They made Tali like Shepard even though they she didn't in the first game.  How do you know Garrus isn't stalking MSHEP 

Exactly. They act like all of the ME1 and ME2 squadmates signed official declarations of their straightness and couldn't possibly ever have any kind of feelings otherwise or it's a retcon and ruining their character. All the while conveniently forgetting that multiple characters showed no interest in ME1 only to later be romance options in ME2 with perfectly reasonable explanations.

Like all anti-gay arguments, it lacks logic.

Perhaps they wanted to have more of a focus on Ash vs. Liara (hence the possible conflict scene)?  Or, maybe they didn't want to flood the Normandy with LIs?

In any event, there has been no concrete evidence that any current romanceable character is bi (save for Liara and Kelly Chambers).  Last I checked, no character signed offical declarations that they wern't straight either.  Deleted audio recordings do not count -- had Bioware wanted to use them in the game, they would have.  Ultimately, they decided NOT to include them; therefore, in my opinion, it isn't truly evidence.

[atheelogos]

Terminus8 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

Thank you Casey. Even if I don't get Garrus like I'd want,

<_<:unsure:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of Human Turian sex?! lol

[diskoh]

onelifecrisis wrote...

This argument that characters like Garrus have never said they're not bi is pretty ridiculous. Wrex never said that he's not into flower arranging, but I think a lot of people would think it a little odd if in ME3 he declares it's always been one of his favourite passtimes.

diskoh wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

DoNuTwInGs wrote...
when they've shown zero interest in the past games.

That's my fear as well.

You're not giving enough credit to the writing. You guys are acting as if Kaidan is going to show up and say "Hey Shepard, I'm back and I'm GAAAAAAAAY!!!!"

That's exactly what happened with Tali in ME2. Hey Shepard, you're back and I always had the hots for you!

That's not how I viewed it at all. I saw an organic development to a relationship, just like they often evolve in real life. In real life there are more occurances than 1) You're immediately attracted to each other and jump into a relationship or 2) You are never attracted to each other. Relationships develop in many different ways.

In my opinion Tali was written well, had a logical and reasonable explanation, and was a very sweet storyline. I'd love for the s/s stories to be as good as that one.

[Fuzrum77]

atheelogos wrote...
<_<:unsure:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of Human Turian sex?! lol

Seriously.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

jlb524 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Okay serious question here, how would an existing love interest being bisexual ruin their character? It wouldn't change my opinion on them at all, maybe i'm missing something

I'm still waiting for a solid answer on that one too...

I think it's the idea that sexuality is some big character trait.

I see 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' and 'bisexual' more as social identities that do affect how we our perceived (in our society b/c it's important) and there are some shared experiences all homosexuals or heterosexuals will have (for example, homosexuals can't marry in certain U.S. states).

However, individuals within each group widely vary, so I can't see what this magical 'gay character trait' or 'bisexual character trait' is that all share.

I'm not against opening up existing characters to s/s romance (I have long been an advocate of Tali Femshep romance) but I can answer this.

Ok... say that in ME3 Mordin became a love interest. I'd feel that that was drastically out of character, because his orientation has already been established... he is asexual. I think that's awesome, because asexuals don't get much representation in games. To suddenly have an asexual character turn sexual would be deeply weird for me, and would leave me thinking that he was behaving out-of-character. I have a few asexual friends, can you imagine how an asexual person would feel if they really identified with a character, and that character was suddenly "fixed" to be non-asexual?

Now imagine that we didn't get that little talk with Mordin, where he pretty much came out to us as asexual and not interested. Imagine it just took the form of him saying that "most Salarians are asexual." That would still give asexuals enough reason to believe that he was an asexual like them, and making him a love interest in ME3 would also change his orientation, and make the asexuals who had come to identify with him disappointed.

Similarly, imagine that in ME3, all of a sudden Liara was just gay, not bi anymore. Even on characters where I don't romance her, the fact that she's attracted to both genders is an important part of her character to me. Do you think that limiting her romance to only women in the third game wouldn't change her character in any significant way?

I knew a guy in high school who thought he was bi for a few years, and then later decided he was gay. He broke things off with his girlfriend at the time, and has only dated guys ever since... so the idea of Liara realizing she doesn't like guys isn't completely out of the realm of possibility... but it would change how players relate to her character. It would be a character development.... not necessarily something that would ruin the character, but something that would make players feel that their interactions with her were different.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[goofyomnivore]

I don't understand how people are flipping out over a character "suddenly" being interested in the same sex kills their character/personality. When we had no clue that Tali nor Garrus was interested in humans prior to ME:2, and I was given the impression from ME1 that outside of Asari inter-species relationships were nearly unheard of.

Modifié par strive, 16 mai 2011 - 04:46 .

[RaenImrahl]

atheelogos wrote...
<_<:unsure:Can someone please explain to me the appeal of Human Turian sex?! lol

Off-topic here.  Make your own post  topic if you'd like.

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 16 mai 2011 - 04:47 .