238 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

People don't seem care if Tali and Garrus showed no romantic interest at all in the first game, but in the second game they are LIs, that's fine, BUT OH NO THEY ARE BI NOW, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

People, stop contradicting your self's please. Thank you and bye.

Modifié par Mr.House, 16 mai 2011 - 04:56 .

[TheKillerAngel]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I'm not against homosexual characters or romances in games, but I am against relationships that break previously defined characteristics of said characters.

Garrus mentions his "sparring" match with a female turian. Thane was madly in love with his wife. Jacob seems truly hurt that Miranda doesn't feel any connection with him. I feel it would go against characteristics of said characters if this was reversed in ME3; especially considering that they didn't open up to Shepard a mere few months ago, but suddenly decide that an imminent reaper invasion is the time to do so.

I agree with this. I would also urge the people reading in this thread to look up two things: The argument from ignorance (a logical fallacy I see being abused to the max here) and evidence of absence.

I'm going to write a poll on this later.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ryzaki wrote...

@CulturalGeekGirl: Except unlike all the other characters (save Samara) Mordin rejects Shepard.

True, but i never actually got that dialogue in game, and I still got the impression that he was asexual. I only found out that he explicitly states his asexuality later, through youtube. Even if he hadn't had that conversation with me, him suddenly becoming sexual would seem totally weird.

And yes, if he had been flirty from the start, I would totally have been interested. He is my favorite character. But him suddenly becoming interested would feel weird in a way that Garrus suddenly becoming interested doesn't, and not for gender reasons either. (I also think that Tali suddenly being interested wouldn't seem out of place, because of the way she talks about linking our suits in ME2, even if you are a lady).

Just to add to my list: I wanted to romance Wrex in ME1, but if he became an LI now it would be weird. He is my second favorite character!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 04:58 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
No it isn't very possible, especially when they've only ever hinted their interest in women. Basically you want to have Bioware go with these absurd scenario for personal reasons, suspension of disbelief be damned.

I honestly find it hard to believe that your suspension of disbelief can be threatened by the mere idea of being bisexual when we are talking about a game that scientific ressurection from death, presumedly immortal space cuttlefish, aliens that mostly look human and even communicate with human expressions (like finger quotes), MAss Relays, brain-washing, mind-melding, floating jellyfish, and countless other things...

No, no, it's the mere possiblity that the guy who only mentioned one woman might like other guys which is truly outrageous and absurd.

[diskoh]

Jayman1337 wrote...

The only thing I'm asking for out of this is that people that don't want to be effected by it don't get effected by it.

That should go for every romance.

[Raiders Fan 223]

diskoh wrote...

I met my wife in college, was friends with her for about 5 years, then we admitted our feelings and started dating.

Apparently to many people this is a retcon, because people can only be attracted if they announce it when you first meet.

The issue is not that a certain character is going to "admit feelings" for Shepard, it's that the character is suddenly revealing a new/different orientation that was not previously evident.

Any character that turns bi/gay would have a new/different orientation.  Yes, no character ever signed a paper that said they were straight.  But they give no evidence to the contrary.  Some people (because of fasicnations, personal orientation, or fantasies) wish they had shown signs of a different oreientation and try to produce evidence, but the fact remains that there is none.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Doesn't matter; the point is that discussing one relationship does not give other people the entire romantic history of that person.

Quite the contrary, I think "flawed thinking" would be telling yourself that Garrus's story proves he is straight and will never diverge from it.  That line of thinking is purely arrogant and rife with assumptions.  Are you just afraid that your assumption might be wrong?  Did you place that much importance on your one little assumption derived from a single conversation?

He has only ever mentioned his interest in women, even discarding that discussion probability would suggest he is straight and not bisexual. Seems pretty straightfoward thinking to me.

[corporal doody]

if dialogue is going to be included to initiate a s/s relationship.....repercussions should be included as well. cuz im pretty sure not all characters are going to made bi/gay now. if shep wants to push the issue with a character that isnt written as open to it...and informs shepard by ignoring the statements, changing subjects, or throws out more obvious hints that they dont appreciate it. cuz No means no shep....drop it!

[onelifecrisis]

Ryzaki wrote...

No one should be accidently stumbling into an unwanted romance. 

Well I accidentally stumbled into an unwanted romance on my first ME1 playthrough and accidentally stumbled into two unwanted romances in my first ME2 playthrough. Forgive me if I don't have faith in Bioware's ability to properly handle this in ME3.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 16 mai 2011 - 04:59 .

[diskoh]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
No it isn't very possible, especially when they've only ever hinted their interest in women. Basically you want to have Bioware go with these absurd scenario for personal reasons, suspension of disbelief be damned.

I honestly find it hard to believe that your suspension of disbelief can be threatened by the mere idea of being bisexual when we are talking about a game that scientific ressurection from death, presumedly immortal space cuttlefish, aliens that mostly look human and even communicate with human expressions (like finger quotes), MAss Relays, brain-washing, mind-melding, floating jellyfish, and countless other things...

No, no, it's the mere possiblity that the guy who only mentioned one woman might like other guys which is truly outrageous and absurd.

Nevermind the fact that he is an entirely different species. If there is humping to be done with an alien, I think their sex is pretty far down the list of important things in the situation. Because at that point what does their sex mean? If I'm humping a raptor, does it make me gay if it's a male raptor?

Modifié par diskoh, 16 mai 2011 - 05:00 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
He has only ever mentioned his interest in women, even discarding that discussion probability would suggest he is straight and not bisexual. Seems pretty straightfoward thinking to me.

In terms of making assumptions, sure.

In terms of claiming that one conversation makes him straight and therefore any divergence from said straightness at any point in the future must be a teribly written retcon, no.

Not straight-forward or logical at all.

[Mr.House]

corporal doody wrote...

if dialogue is going to be included to initiate a s/s relationship.....repercussions should be included as well. cuz im pretty sure not all characters are going to made bi/gay now. if shep wants to push the issue with a character that isnt written as open to it...and informs shepard by ignoring the statements, changing subjects, or throws out more obvious hints that they dont appreciate it. cuz No means no shep....drop it!

A male Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Garrus, Thane, Kaidan, Jacob.
A Female Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Ash and Miri.

You don't know how they would act, all you can do is assume. If Garrus or anyone else is bi in ME3, it's no diffrent then what they did with Garrus and Tali in ME2.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mr.House wrote...
People, stop contradicting your self's please. Thank you and bye.

You got your way in DA2. It was very poorly handled, it made some of the characters seem less real, in the end it was an effort to pander to a very small but vocal element of the fanbase with the least amount of effort possible. I don't want to see this repeated in ME2.

[Xilizhra]

Fun fact: almost every instance of complaining about specific relationships has been towards M/M. Is this significant? I can't imagine that it isn't.

[diskoh]

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

I met my wife in college, was friends with her for about 5 years, then we admitted our feelings and started dating.

Apparently to many people this is a retcon, because people can only be attracted if they announce it when you first meet.

The issue is not that a certain character is going to "admit feelings" for Shepard, it's that the character is suddenly revealing a new/different orientation that was not previously evident.

Any character that turns bi/gay would have a new/different orientation.  Yes, no character ever signed a paper that said they were straight.  But they give no evidence to the contrary.  Some people (because of fasicnations, personal orientation, or fantasies) wish they had shown signs of a different oreientation and try to produce evidence, but the fact remains that there is none.

Evidence is not needed. It may have simply been something they didn't want to talk about, which would be their right wouldn't it?

My friend Ryan from high school didn't come out as gay until many many years later. That kind of thing happens. Every day.

[corporal doody]

Mr.House wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

if dialogue is going to be included to initiate a s/s relationship.....repercussions should be included as well. cuz im pretty sure not all characters are going to made bi/gay now. if shep wants to push the issue with a character that isnt written as open to it...and informs shepard by ignoring the statements, changing subjects, or throws out more obvious hints that they dont appreciate it. cuz No means no shep....drop it!

A male Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Garrus, Thane, Kaidan, Jacob.
A Female Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Ash and Miri.

You don't know how they would act, all you can do is assume. If Garrus or anyone else is bi in ME3, it's no diffrent then what they did with Garrus and Tali in ME2.

we are talking about ME3.

[Insom]

The best compromise here I think is making the *new* squad members bisexual. That way no one will flip out when anyone established like Garrus and Kaidan and whoever else makes unwanted advances. I'll gladly avoid talking to the new squad members if they hit on you for being a paragon.

[Eradyn]

Species preference is not inclusive of gender preference. Someone can want to "hump an alien" but still prefer to "hump an alien of the opposite gender" and there is no hypocrisy in that. Again, both criteria are mutually exclusive traits.

Modifié par Eradyn, 16 mai 2011 - 05:05 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Eradyn wrote...

One should also not make the mistake of lessening the importance of sexual orientation and gender identity.  It cannot be understated how important these are to people as individuals and as societies.  Laws are enacted and torn down around these premises.  Throughout history, and even in a number of countries today, people are tortured and murdered over sexual orientation and gender identity.  Were it not important to people, were people not so defined by their sexual orientation and gender identity, there would not be this debate, there would not be LGBT or hetero pride marches, there would not be fights over legislation.

These facets of our persona are that important to us that people will fight for them.  They help define a huge chunk of who we are as individuals (and from indivudals to societies) and how we view other individuals.  You cannot pretend it wouldn't be drastic.  Already, a mere tweet, vague and not naming or defining ANY specific ME3 LIs this applies to, has caused an eruption of sorts in the forum.  And no names have even been dropped as to what characters will or will not be affected.

Whether or not this should be an "issue" is not relevant before reality.  The reality is that it does affect people of all orientations and identities.  People are not merely reacting over pixels, they are reacting over clashes of real world philosophies and beliefs that affect each of us intimately.  But then, this is the power of video games in today's world.

This is correct. Otherwise there wouldn't exist people who have the mental issue where some people are born as one sex but feel as though they are another (tired forgot the exact name) and this need to have the outside match the in is so strong they will go through surgery to obtain it.  It is so strong they can't experience a normal life, they can't feel happy no matter what they do until they are who they always viewed themselves to be. If people didn't subconsciously value their own sexual identity and how that relates to their partnerships and happiness and quality of life then this illness would not be these people would not care what they looked like or who they pared off with.  

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
In terms of making assumptions, sure.

In terms of claiming that one conversation makes him straight and therefore any divergence from said straightness at any point in the future must be a teribly written retcon, no.

Not straight-forward or logical at all.

And it is a very reasonable assumption to make.

Yes that
technically would not be a retcon but still terrible writing (to pander
to a very small element of the fanbase) and very unlikely.

I'd much rather have a more believable scenario at the cost of you not getting your way.

[Raiders Fan 223]

Mr.House wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

if dialogue is going to be included to initiate a s/s relationship.....repercussions should be included as well. cuz im pretty sure not all characters are going to made bi/gay now. if shep wants to push the issue with a character that isnt written as open to it...and informs shepard by ignoring the statements, changing subjects, or throws out more obvious hints that they dont appreciate it. cuz No means no shep....drop it!

A male Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Garrus, Thane, Kaidan, Jacob.
A Female Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Ash and Miri.

You don't know how they would act, all you can do is assume. If Garrus or anyone else is bi in ME3, it's no diffrent then what they did with Garrus and Tali in ME2.

Not a good argument.

New/developed LI  =/=  New orientation.

[javierabegazo]

Please relocate discussion here:
- Wider options for Romance in ME3, including Same-sex -

[Inquisitor Recon]

Xilizhra wrote...
Fun fact: almost every instance of complaining about specific relationships has been towards M/M. Is this significant? I can't imagine that it isn't.

Cause hot lesbians/bisexual women are hot. Welcome to the real world.

[Raiders Fan 223]

Insom wrote...

The best compromise here I think is making the *new* squad members bisexual. That way no one will flip out when anyone established like Garrus and Kaidan and whoever else makes unwanted advances. I'll gladly avoid talking to the new squad members if they hit on you for being a paragon.

Honestly, that is the best solution IMO

[TheMarshal]

corporal doody wrote...

if dialogue is going to be included to initiate a s/s relationship.....repercussions should be included as well. cuz im pretty sure not all characters are going to made bi/gay now. if shep wants to push the issue with a character that isnt written as open to it...and informs shepard by ignoring the statements, changing subjects, or throws out more obvious hints that they dont appreciate it. cuz No means no shep....drop it!

I wouldn't mind that.  If there were characters who were explicitly not interested in Shepard, or not interested in Shepard because of a mismatched sexual preference, I'd be fine with it.  Of course it would fly in the face of the current established standard of "If it moves in the ME-verse, it probably wants to have sex with Shepard" because aside from Mordin and Samara, nobody turns down the Shep.