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[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

@IoCaster wrote...

I think instead of having stupid and kinda offensive to many people "toggle gay on/off", gay/bi characters shouldn't flirt with Shepard but instead Shepard has to do it first.

So there's an option to AVOID gay romance and any other as well.

Change that to characters period and I'll support it. 

My dude Hawke did not appreciate being hit on. And when some characters did it I got...well it was a :/ moment. 

Well I don't remember any straight character from Bioware that flirted on PC.
Then again I only played KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

All the ME1 LIs flirt with you if you pick Paragon dialogues with them, including the same sex option. In ME2, Thane starts calling you a pet name before you officially start his romance, and a lot of dialogue that seems just "friendly" leads to romance (telling Jack you just want to keep talking with her, asking Miranda about her self-esteem issues, etc.) 

I honestly don't mind any of this flirting, and I like it in a lot of cases: it makes it feel like your LI actually likes Shepard. But it appears that a lot of other people don't like it. Sigh. Sometimes everything seems impossible.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 07:55 .

[Ryzaki]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

@IoCaster wrote...

I think instead of having stupid and kinda offensive to many people "toggle gay on/off", gay/bi characters shouldn't flirt with Shepard but instead Shepard has to do it first.

So there's an option to AVOID gay romance and any other as well.

Change that to characters period and I'll support it. 

My dude Hawke did not appreciate being hit on. And when some characters did it I got...well it was a :/ moment. 

Well I don't remember any straight character from Bioware that flirted on PC.
Then again I only played KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

All the ME1 LIs flirt with you if you pick Paragon dialogues with them, including the same sex option. In ME2, Thane starts calling you a pet name before you officially start his romance, and a lot of dialogue that seems just "friendly" leads to romance (telling Jack you just want to keep talking with her, asking Miranda about her self-esteem issues, etc.) 

^ 

I got caught in a trap with Liara and Ashley I got out of Ashley by nuking her from orbit. Liara I just had to deal with.  

Tali starts telling my Shepard she had a crush on him which kind of soured his mood because he rejected her and she wanted him to go away after that. 

Jack told him to F*** OFF! (Ugh.)

Miranda was all touching his arm and invading his personal space. 

Yeah my Shepard started feeling a little bit suffocated. 

Really romances need to be player initated. It felt a little forced on me the way it was in the ME games. There aren't even easy ways to avoid getting hit on like in DA2. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2011 - 07:56 .

[IoCaster]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

How so?

I'm just extrapolating a toggle for people who don't want homosexuals in their game to people who don't want people of a certain race or religion hitting on them in their game. In your words, they'd simply be not interested in that content. If you don't understand the parallels, you don't understand your own prejudices.

No what you're extrapolating is that not wanting gay romance dialogue that a person isn't interested in is somehow akin to wanting to expunge that character from the game. Then you want to shoehorn race and religion into the discussion as well. That's disingenuous and to then turn around and refer to my 'prejudices' is specious.

But moogle isn't suggesting a toggle that would remove characters from the game, just one that would prevent characters with different skin pigmentation from flirting with you, and would cut off all access to romance lines with them. If it would make someone uncomfortable for someone of a certain race to flirt with them, why not give them the option to turn that off?

If we put in one kind of toggle, then we can put in another kind of toggle for every single thing that might make someone uncomfortable.

Look there is no parallel with toggling off interracial romance dialogue and I haven't seen anyone try to make that case. Injecting that into the discussion at hand is disingenuous and an obvious attempt to ascribe a nefarious motive.

[CroGamer002]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

All the ME1 LIs flirt with you if you pick Paragon dialogues with them, including the same sex option.

I'm pretty sure that my Shepard starts to flirt with them first.

In ME2, Thane starts calling you a pet name before you officially start his romance, and a lot of dialogue that seems just "friendly" leads to romance

Well since it's very subtle, it's very forgivable and very easy to avoid.

(telling Jack you just want to keep talking with her, asking Miranda about her self-esteem issues, etc.) 

Well Shepard is moving first.

[Ryzaki]

Right but to me those dialogues (from what I can recall) didn't feel like he was flirting with them. There are triggers for Ash's romance that lead to Shepard simply asking about her family and saying neutral things that start the romance. (someone had a bunch of images out and I need to dig and find them).  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2011 - 08:00 .

[SennenScale]

IoCaster wrote...

It's not so much that I'm ignoring other solutions, but more that I'm interested in drilling down to let people make their justification for the opposition to what I think is the simplest and most elegant way to let everyone get what they want. Make your choice at the outset and blithely go about your business without regard to potentially cringe worthy moments of dialogue on both sides of the sexual divide. *shrug*

Your supposed "elegant solution" does not fix having the option of the other straight LIs available when you only want one, or vice versa for gay LIs.


MY solution, which is to just not click on the pink text, solves this issue for every romance in the game. Zero unwanted advances because Shep always hits on them first.

So, I call baloney on that one.

I'll leave it to other posters more elegant than I to explain the unfortunate implications of "gay toggle". Pink text and Shepard makes the advances works best, so that argument doesnt have a real leg to stand on.

Modifié par SennenScale, 18 mai 2011 - 08:01 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

IoCaster wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

How so?

I'm just extrapolating a toggle for people who don't want homosexuals in their game to people who don't want people of a certain race or religion hitting on them in their game. In your words, they'd simply be not interested in that content. If you don't understand the parallels, you don't understand your own prejudices.

No what you're extrapolating is that not wanting gay romance dialogue that a person isn't interested in is somehow akin to wanting to expunge that character from the game. Then you want to shoehorn race and religion into the discussion as well. That's disingenuous and to then turn around and refer to my 'prejudices' is specious.

But moogle isn't suggesting a toggle that would remove characters from the game, just one that would prevent characters with different skin pigmentation from flirting with you, and would cut off all access to romance lines with them. If it would make someone uncomfortable for someone of a certain race to flirt with them, why not give them the option to turn that off?

If we put in one kind of toggle, then we can put in another kind of toggle for every single thing that might make someone uncomfortable.

Look there is no parallel with toggling off interracial romance dialogue and I haven't seen anyone try to make that case. Injecting that into the discussion at hand is disingenuous and an obvious attempt to ascribe a nefarious motive.

That's exactly what moogle was suggesting - a toggle for people who don't want X hitting on them in game, where X is any one KIND of person, whether that person be a certain gender, an alien, or [INSERT DEMOGRAPHIC HERE]. That seems to be what you're suggesting... a toggle to prevent a certain kind of person from flirting with you in game, and to prevent you from accidentally flirting with a certain kind of person.

I just want an option where X never hits on me. But what if other people want an option where Y never hits on them, and another group wants an option for Z, and Q, and R? What if someone wants a toggle where brunettes never hit on them, or where nobody who is older than them ever hits on them? What if someone wants a toggle where aliens don't ever hit on them, but any gender of human is fine?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 08:00 .

[Augoeides]

Ryzaki wrote...

Right but to me those dialogues (from what I can recall) didn't feel like he was flirting with them.

Agreed. Those conversations, I have them with people, in the same sort of tonality, and no one has ever minsconstrued that as a flirtation, they simply take it as cioncern and friendliness.

[King Raptor 22]

I really hope Fox News doesn't report on this. I feel Mass Effect 1 was unjustly put on the spotlight from those people whom "thought" the game had full frontal nudity in it. Also if you do not believe in same sex marriage you have two choices you either do not engage in that particular relationship or you simply do not play the game. I don't want to hear ranting about it being immoral or anything like that. I cant wait for this game to come out, play both games multiple time, I have played ME2 6 times for each class. Sorry if I ranted too long, just wanted to get this off my chest.

Modifié par King Raptor 22, 18 mai 2011 - 08:02 .

[IoCaster]

 Anyway it's been an amicable and lively discussion, but I've got some early business to attend to tomorrow and must bid you all adieu. Have fun folks and stay out of trouble. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Right but to me those dialogues (from what I can recall) didn't feel like he was flirting with them. There are triggers for Ash's romance that lead to Shepard simply asking about her family and saying neutral things that start the romance. (someone had a bunch of images out and I need to dig and find them).  

Indeed, asking Kaidan about science fiction books starts a romance. Having a conversation with Ash about literature doesn't start a romance if you're a girl, but does if you're a boy. It's interesting.

And I think Kaidan will accidentally compliment and flirt with you once or twice even if you're in a relationship with Liara. I'm not 100% sure on that, though.

[Ryzaki]

Augoeides wrote...
Agreed. Those conversations, I have them with people, in the same sort of tonality, and no one has ever minsconstrued that as a flirtation, they simply take it as cioncern and friendliness. 

Yeah its kind of weird that dialogue starts a romance. Maybe the ME1 LIs were having an extreme dry season or something. 

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Indeed, asking Kaidan about science fiction books starts a romance. Having a conversation with Ash about literature doesn't start a romance if you're a girl, but does if you're a boy. It's interesting.

And I think Kaidan will accidentally compliment and flirt with you once or twice even if you're in a relationship with Liara. I'm not 100% sure on that, though.

Seriously? *plays Dude Shep* good grief. *rubs temples* What were they thinking? 

The one about her dad right? Yeah...doesn't make much sense to start a romance there :/ 

I'm pretty sure choosing the renedouche no with Liara will not stop the romance for some reason. 

[bald man in a boat]

Do some of you guys/girls ever sleep?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Do some of you guys/girls ever sleep?

Rage is a hell of a... stimulant?

[Augoeides]

Ryzaki wrote...

Augoeides wrote...
Agreed. Those conversations, I have them with people, in the same sort of tonality, and no one has ever minsconstrued that as a flirtation, they simply take it as cioncern and friendliness. 

Yeah its kind of weird that dialogue starts a romance. Maybe the ME1 LIs were having an extreme dry season or something. 

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Indeed, asking Kaidan about science fiction books starts a romance. Having a conversation with Ash about literature doesn't start a romance if you're a girl, but does if you're a boy. It's interesting.

And I think Kaidan will accidentally compliment and flirt with you once or twice even if you're in a relationship with Liara. I'm not 100% sure on that, though.

Seriously? *plays Dude Shep* good grief. *rubs temples* What were they thinking? 

The one about her dad right? Yeah...doesn't make much sense to start a romance there :/ 

I'm pretty sure choosing the renedouche no with Liara will not stop the romance for some reason. 

Daddy issues. She wants Shep to be her daddy. xD

I'm honestly crossing my fingers for Kaidan but I'll deal if it's not him. Thankfully the fiction I am writing concerning him Post-Virmire fits the no-bi/not-yet-bi ambiguity of unestablished orientation. Gives me options for 3. xD

[JamesMoriarty123]

If they turn this into another Anders from DA2, I'll be extremely disappointed. Nothing ruins my immersion more than trying to drum up some "brothers in arms" type camaradarie and then have the guy turn out to be a fooking bender, a blatant bender, intent on bedding me from the off.

Man, they got it waaaayyyy wrong.

Also, if they **** with Kaiden (who is straight, fact) or Garrus (also straight, fact) I'll be most displeased.

Make the new guy gay if you want, but at least let us be his friend without him wanting us to be his butt buddy.

[SennenScale]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Do some of you guys/girls ever sleep?

Of course. I just take my laptop with me everywhere.

Modifié par SennenScale, 18 mai 2011 - 08:19 .

[Augoeides]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Do some of you guys/girls ever sleep?

Too busy cooking to sleep. Oh, and Australia mate.

.......

...You weren't referring to me, were you?

>_<

[Augoeides]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

If they turn this into another Anders from DA2, I'll be extremely disappointed. Nothing ruins my immersion more than trying to drum up some "brothers in arms" type camaradarie and then have the guy turn out to be a fooking bender, a blatant bender, intent on bedding me from the off.

Man, they got it waaaayyyy wrong.

Also, if they **** with Kaiden (who is straight, fact) or Garrus (also straight, fact) I'll be most displeased.

Make the new guy gay if you want, but at least let us be his friend without him wanting us to be his butt buddy.

When and if Casey Hudson or another person in the equivalent position says he is Straight or he is not a Bi option in game/says that he is straight, then you can assert that as fact. What you perceive and want does not equal in-game reality.

Modifié par Augoeides, 18 mai 2011 - 08:20 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Augoeides wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

If they turn this into another Anders from DA2, I'll be extremely disappointed. Nothing ruins my immersion more than trying to drum up some "brothers in arms" type camaradarie and then have the guy turn out to be a fooking bender, a blatant bender, intent on bedding me from the off.

Man, they got it waaaayyyy wrong.

Also, if they **** with Kaiden (who is straight, fact) or Garrus (also straight, fact) I'll be most displeased.

Make the new guy gay if you want, but at least let us be his friend without him wanting us to be his butt buddy.

When and if Casey Hudson or another person in the equivalent position says he is Straight or he is not a Bi option in game/says that he is straight, then you can assert that as fact. What you perceive and want does not equal in-game reality in fiction.

Are you insane? Seriously, that is my question to you. They both talk about former female love interests and are both currently love interests for FemShep.

When will you guys get it into your head, they're not bent, that's it. The twitter post practically confirms as much. Current LI's will not necessarily be bent out of character (lol) to fit into a mould that the gay community seemingly demand on EVERY thread like this.

What you have here is Bioware pandering, pandering their asses off to accomodate the smallest demographic of gamer that actually purchases their games. It saddens me that it isn't about just creating a kick ass game anymore, it's about making sure everything is PC, and the poor uncared for gay gamer is accomodated for. Quite sickening really.

[SennenScale]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...


Are you insane? Seriously, that is my question to you. They both talk about former female love interests and are both currently love interests for FemShep.

When will you guys get it into your head, they're not bent, that's it. The twitter post practically confirms as much. Current LI's will not necessarily be bent out of character (lol) to fit into a mould that the gay community seemingly demand on EVERY thread like this.

First, there is a such thing as bisexuality.

Secondly, if, as you say, that tweet basically confirms that there won't be old LIs opening up to Shep and that's your issue, why are you here?

Thirdly, nobody demanded. People asked for a m/m and a f/f option. The devs responded.

Modifié par SennenScale, 18 mai 2011 - 08:31 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

While there is such a thing as bisexuality, let's face it, it isn't exactly a common thing. And as far as continuity goes, if these people were indeed bisexual it would have been apparent before now.

As I mentioned, as long as it's handled well (basically just avoid another Anders) I'm all for having a gay character, as long as we can be his friend without him coming on to us, but ****ing with the existing toons is what boils my ****** so to speak.

[KawaiiKatie]

I want to romance Kaidan with my gay male Shepard SO BAD. I hope he was first on Bioware's mind when they were discussing same-sex romances in ME3. Because, seriously, while Jacob and Thane and James Vega are all very well and good, Kaidan was here first. <3

[SennenScale]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

While there is such a thing as bisexuality, let's face it, it isn't exactly a common thing. And as far as continuity goes, if these people were indeed bisexual it would have been apparent before now.

As I mentioned, as long as it's handled well (basically just avoid another Anders) I'm all for having a gay character, as long as we can be his friend without him coming on to us, but ****ing with the existing toons is what boils my ****** so to speak.

You can't know a person is bisexual unless you've seen them flirting with both sexes (and you never see any character getting together with anyone BUT Shepard) or if they told you, dude. It isn't going to be apparent otherwise.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'm tired of the Schrodinger's Sexuality argument. Look, we won't know if the cat is bisexual until we open the box, ok? But we can listen to the scratching and make some guesses. Also, we can all be murdered by radioactive zombie cats. It's not an exact science.

That said, it's possible to know someone for a very long time and not have their bisexuality come up. I'm not saying that it's likely, I'm saying that it's possible. Can we all just agree "unlikely, but possible, won't know until we open the box." and move on?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 08:40 .