6696 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

@paptschik:

Just on your comment above about how this would all be more believable if it were planned from the start of the series: you're totally correct. That's true.

It was planned (or at least recorded) in ME; due to time constraints or other concerns, they were cut. It was (allegedly) planned in ME2, again it was cut.

The fact that Bioware have (finally) decided to follow through with S/S in ME3 shouldn't be used to decry the decision; if anything the willingness to innovate and open up the romances in response to requests from a not-insignificant number of people is a wonderful thing.

I can't fathom the argument that 6 months extra of development time can't or shouldn't be used to deepen the relationships of the game - friendships and romances, including S/S content - in addition to making everything else more amazing. How is providing more content for people to use - assuming it's written well - ever a bad thing?

[STG]

centauri2002 wrote...

STG wrote...

ME had mouse sensitivity in options. ME2 didn't, but it did have 6 available romances. Maybe it got overlooked or developers were just lazy, I don't know. Which is why if Bioware continues this trend, I'm done with them.

Providing most basic options to PC gamers shouldn't be more difficult than providing gay gamers with romance options.

I fail to see how they're even remotely similar. That would be like me saying... "BioWare, if you offer a helmet toggle in ME3 and no m/m romances, I'm never buying another of your games!" 

Have you complained about the fact that they're offering weapon customisability in ME3 but there's no mention of mouse sensitivity options? 

Besides, it's early days yet and there's still a lot of development time and announcements to be made. If you really care so much about mouse sensitivity options then go make a thread on this forum about it. Get your opinion heard. Threatening to raegquit because you're not getting what you want but others are isn't going to get any improvements added. 

I happen to think that PC players should have sensitivity options in the menu, but I don't understand how it's related to same sex romances at all.

I brought up mouse sensitivity for several reasons.

Unlike gay romance, mouse sensitivity option is requred in order for any PC gamer to have an enjoyable and smooth gameplay. You simply need that option and depending on your PC and setup you might be unable to play the game without it available (though you can mod certain files to adjust it you shouldn't be forced to do it). This is not a small part of an even smaller optional part of the game we're talking here, this is basic neccesity of anyone who owns a PC.

Coding and providing mouse sensitivity is (probably) not a difficult, resource heavy task. I am not knowledgeable on technical aspects but the fact that some 95% of PC games do provide that option must mean that it's not rocket science. Now comparing that to romances in general which require writing, cinematics, voice actors and whatever other resources there is I don't see how one can rationalize availability of one but not the other. Next to romances, mouse sensitivity looks like peanuts. And yet, Bioware can't provide those peanuts.

Reason why I posted here is because, among other things, this is a thread for those who feel that they are being ignored, neglected or simply treated poorly and as a PC gamer this is exactly how I feel.

[Centauri2002]

STG wrote...

I brought up mouse sensitivity for several reasons.

Unlike gay romance, mouse sensitivity option is requred in order for any PC gamer to have an enjoyable and smooth gameplay. You simply need that option and depending on your PC and setup you might be unable to play the game without it available (though you can mod certain files to adjust it you shouldn't be forced to do it). This is not a small part of an even smaller optional part of the game we're talking here, this is basic neccesity of anyone who owns a PC.

Coding and providing mouse sensitivity is (probably) not a difficult, resource heavy task. I am not knowledgeable on technical aspects but the fact that some 95% of PC games do provide that option must mean that it's not rocket science. Now comparing that to romances in general which require writing, cinematics, voice actors and whatever other resources there is I don't see how one can rationalize availability of one but not the other. Next to romances, mouse sensitivity looks like peanuts. And yet, Bioware can't provide those peanuts.

Reason why I posted here is because, among other things, this is a thread for those who feel that they are being ignored, neglected or simply treated poorly and as a PC gamer this is exactly how I feel.

I can see where you're coming from. I agree that the option should be there, even though I never once had to adjust the mouse sensitivity when I played through both games. 

I still think you should bring this up in a separate thread, perhaps with a list of other improvements you'd like to see. This thread is for dicussing the inclusion of same sex romances. I don't see that one should be included above the other. They should both be there. As you say though, adding in mouse sensitivity options is a minor thing and it has been a complaint for ME2 so I really don't see them excluding it again.

I'll just point out though that coming into this thread and saying that you disapprove if a feature you want to see isn't included when same sex romances is, isn't going to be received particularly well. It's been a long, hard slog to get same sex romances included when it really shouldn't have been. Put in some time to express your own views on what you want to see and you might be pleasantly surprised as well. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 18 mai 2011 - 02:36 .

[HolyMoogle]

STG wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

STG wrote...

ME had mouse sensitivity in options. ME2 didn't, but it did have 6 available romances. Maybe it got overlooked or developers were just lazy, I don't know. Which is why if Bioware continues this trend, I'm done with them.

Providing most basic options to PC gamers shouldn't be more difficult than providing gay gamers with romance options.

I fail to see how they're even remotely similar. That would be like me saying... "BioWare, if you offer a helmet toggle in ME3 and no m/m romances, I'm never buying another of your games!" 

Have you complained about the fact that they're offering weapon customisability in ME3 but there's no mention of mouse sensitivity options? 

Besides, it's early days yet and there's still a lot of development time and announcements to be made. If you really care so much about mouse sensitivity options then go make a thread on this forum about it. Get your opinion heard. Threatening to raegquit because you're not getting what you want but others are isn't going to get any improvements added. 

I happen to think that PC players should have sensitivity options in the menu, but I don't understand how it's related to same sex romances at all.

I brought up mouse sensitivity for several reasons.

Unlike gay romance, mouse sensitivity option is requred in order for any PC gamer to have an enjoyable and smooth gameplay. You simply need that option and depending on your PC and setup you might be unable to play the game without it available (though you can mod certain files to adjust it you shouldn't be forced to do it). This is not a small part of an even smaller optional part of the game we're talking here, this is basic neccesity of anyone who owns a PC.

Coding and providing mouse sensitivity is (probably) not a difficult, resource heavy task. I am not knowledgeable on technical aspects but the fact that some 95% of PC games do provide that option must mean that it's not rocket science. Now comparing that to romances in general which require writing, cinematics, voice actors and whatever other resources there is I don't see how one can rationalize availability of one but not the other. Next to romances, mouse sensitivity looks like peanuts. And yet, Bioware can't provide those peanuts.

Reason why I posted here is because, among other things, this is a thread for those who feel that they are being ignored, neglected or simply treated poorly and as a PC gamer this is exactly how I feel.

A legitimate concern, but something which I think needs its own topic, and doesn't belong in this thread.

[Someone With Mass]

That must be the most trivial complaint I've ever heard of in my entire life.

[Servo to the bitter end]

I think it's a pretty valid complaint. Definitely for another topic in another forum, however.

[Illeuad]

Valcutio wrote...

More pandering to the 3-4% and alienating (pun intended) of the vast majority? Score another success like DA2 for Bioware! /sarcasm

BTW, I think it's time people started letter-writing campaigns to EA shareholders. Hit them in their wallets and maybe they'll focus on their priorities again.

Oh please. The "vast majority" won't even realise that M/M romance is possible! Think back to the stats bioware put up, what was the staggering number of people whom didn't even open the Krogran tank? 

You're projecting your beliefs onto the masses, and you're forgetting that just by being here at the fourms, and caring for "little" details like this -- you yourself are most likely in a minority.

M/M relationships really aren't scary, I assume the character will be way more subtle than Zevran and Anders anyway, so let the gays/bis/girls and open minded guys have their fun.  

Augoeides wrote...

Marta Rio wrote...

Illeuad wrote...

I can easily see Kaidan admitting to having feelings for M!Shep, that tirade he comes up with in ME2 seems very emotion fuelled.

Shep practically ripped through and changed his life in ME1, then disappeared for 3 years. I definitely think soul searching and dwelling on Shep for all that time could definitely allow Kaidan to realise feelings for his old commander.

Of course, the M|M interest could just be a new team member .That or Samara has a surprise peen. lol.

Does Kaidan say the "losing a limb" line regardless of Shep's gender?  (I think he's only been alive in my FemShep playthroughs.)  If so I don't think it's much of a stretch to have him reveal feelings for ManShep in ME3.

Yes, with enough sap to preserve mosquitoes filled with dino blood thus setting the stage for one man's dream of a theme park with real dinosaurs.

Lmfao, "this"?  

[M-Sinistrari]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


No, just that a lot of people have come here with arguments so poorly-reasoned that they are anti-convincing. Like if I were reading a book and someone came by and said "oh, I love that book! It's where I learned that the clockwork in our teeth makes us all forget high school German!" I'd probably start... reconsidering the value of that book.

At first I didn't want a situation where everyone revealed themselves to be bi because everyone being bisexual would interfere with my suspension of disbelief. I thought ok, maybe one or two of the old squad might be bi... still, nobody can agree on which one or two would make the most sense, so the safest bet is to introduce a few new same-sex-exclusive love interests. (possibly with an official "no gender flag" mode to achieve what the modders do with modding - out of continuity head-canon romances.) 

Then, as people came in here shouting "It is a fact that X is straight because he once looked at a girl," and other things that were far, far worse, my feelings began to shift. I already believed that it was reasonable to assume guys who liked girls were probably straight, but to claim it was a fact showed immense arrogance. People said it would ruin the games, destroy Bioware, etc, and  I thought.. my god, do I sound like that? When I say "it would disturb my suspension of disbelief" am I being that selfish and aggro? Maybe and maybe not, but sheesh.

I still think that the best option is a few new s/s exclusive romances, no new straight romances whatsoever, and a patch or option that makes all romances available to their non-canon gender, outside of canon, just for fun. But now I realize that most of the crazier people would be just as enraged by that as by any other possibility. So everything seems hopeless.

I always thought you did come up with some pretty good comprimises for this situation.  And I do feel in the end, there's going to have to be a comprimise especially once one of the news networks decides to go crazy with misinformation on it.

I also will admit during some of the more heated discussion on this, I have had my moments of thinking "Just take out all the romances, they cause too much damn drama."  But that's rectified with just stepping away from the computer for a few and rationality returns.  'Tis my flaw to really get into a good meaty debate.

With some of the arguements on both sides of the debate, I'm still shaking my head at the level of vitriol flung around, and sadly any good points that might come up get steamrolled by it.

No matter what happens in the end, this is pretty damn momentus.  I think we're all fully aware of that and know how horribly this could end up if handled poorly, and how revolutionary if handled rightly.

I do understand where each side's coming from, even when they're expressing themselves more like a rabid wombat than a thinking person.

And during all the ups and downs in this thread, we have actually hit on some commonality we all do agree on.  We want good writing for this whether it's for a new LI or established ones, and no ninjamancing.

As much as DA2 gets flung up and we all know it's under a different team than ME, it's all still Bioware and there's that little whispery voice in the back of the head that does say "What if?".  It's normal to be a bit antsy on this simply because it's pretty revolutionary.

Going from all the assorted posts I've seen since I started in here back on page 5, there's been commentary over some feeling forced to play thier game a certain way that usually gets rebutted with 'then don't do it' for that point.  The correct response should've been "Why do you feel forced?" so there can be some discussion over what about it makes that person feel forced rather than just shut them up as if they're talking crazy and make them feel they're not bringing up a concern.

Even with that damn toggle discussion for how many pages it went, I honestly thought we'd be discussing the logistics and scope of it, but instead it went on a wild tangent of censorship.  Silly M...thinking people wouldn't freak out about it.

Somewhere along the line, and it was pretty much inevitable in light of this weighty topic, there's been sniping over interpretations of characters with both sides often bringing up the same examples to prove thier points.  To me that says more to each of us sees things differently on what's essentially a blank template than a "you're interpreting this wrong".

To use an example, let's look at Kaidan.  Many see him as potentially bi, I don't.  Going over the reasons stated of "He feels that way" or such, doesn't make either of us wrong.  We're just interpreting him differently according to our worldview.  If he does end up bi in game, it's not going to send me to a frothing gnashing of the teeth, but more along the lines of an eye roll like I did with the Garrus/Tali change to LI status.  Won't impact any of my playthroughs other than one of my Sheps'll be likely breaking into a chorus of "Oh Happy Day!".

And really, the argument of "He never said he wasn't bi" is like a default 'Nuh-uh', in debate.  Just because I've never said I'm royalty doesn't mean I am.  Just because none of the characters have said they're bi, it just means that they either aren't or maybe they are.  It's not a definite.

With the existing LIs there sure is a trend of either "I want the LI I like to be the orientation I want" or "I'm fine with s/s with any of the LIs but not the ones my Shep's with".  Neither view's too condusive for discussion since we're all pretty damn attached to them and as we've seen in the fan threads, we'll defend them tooth and nail.

Somewhere in all this I think I was aiming for a specific point.

I guess when all's said and done, we all agree that we want what's best for an enjoyable game.  As far as getting to that point, we all have differing opinions.  This thread's here for us to come to some common points to help Bioware get there with our assorted perspectives.

[STG]

Yeah sorry about the derail there, I get easily irritated by big publishers and developers providing lazy ports but charging same amount of money.

[Marta Rio]

M-Sinistrari wrote...
Going from all the assorted posts I've seen since I started in here back on page 5, there's been commentary over some feeling forced to play thier game a certain way that usually gets rebutted with 'then don't do it' for that point.  The correct response should've been "Why do you feel forced?" so there can be some discussion over what about it makes that person feel forced rather than just shut them up as if they're talking crazy and make them feel they're not bringing up a concern.

This is a really good point to bring up, and as it can be generally applied to all gameplay (not just the same-sex romance options).  For example, I recall Casey Hudson talking about planet scanning in ME2, and how it wasn't Bioware's intention for people to feel forced to do it.  It was just supposed to be a diversion.  But yet most gamers felt like it was a requirement.  Personally, I think S/S dialogue options will turn out to be a lot easier to ignore than planet scanning, as they will not have major ramifications, but I think that there are people out there that do not feel this way. 

As to why they feel that S/S dialogue options are forcing them to play a certain way - I once had an interesting conversation with a very homophobic person on these forums, who was dead set against gay romances in the game.  His reasoning was that "the dialogue choices represent Shep's actual thoughts," meaning that if there were two dialogue options regarding something like killing the Rachni, that would represent Shep's inner turmoil regarding having to make that decision.  And so because this person was using that reasoning, he felt that if same-sex dialogue options that would be akin to Shepard being sexually confused.

Now I don't agree with this particular line of reasoning (because if it's true then Shep seems like he has a severe case of multiple-personality disorder), but on some level I can kind of understand it.  People have different interpretations of how the role playing aspect of the game works, and it's up to the devs whether they want to take into account these views or not.

Although, at some point, it can get so ridiculous that you just have to cross your arms and say "deal with it."

[Eromenos]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

If they turn this into another Anders from DA2, I'll be extremely disappointed. Nothing ruins my immersion more than trying to drum up some "brothers in arms" type camaradarie and then have the guy turn out to be a fooking bender, a blatant bender, intent on bedding me from the off.

Man, they got it waaaayyyy wrong.

Also, if they **** with Kaiden (who is straight, fact) or Garrus (also straight, fact) I'll be most displeased.

Make the new guy gay if you want, but at least let us be his friend without him wanting us to be his butt buddy.

Did you locate the jagged red heart icon in DA2? Well, did you?

Until the day when Kaidan and Garrus come off the way you do as loudly gay-hating to the core, then and only then will anyone be able to pretend they're exclusively hetero. More likely, but oh...is there 100% certainty? I'm so curious if you think there is.

You would want that, I'm sure. Reassurance of having true bros from BioWare. Your true bros can only be straight bros, eh?

[ElitePinecone]

M-Sinistrari wrote...
Somewhere in all this I think I was aiming for a specific point.

I guess when all's said and done, we all agree that we want what's best for an enjoyable game.  As far as getting to that point, we all have differing opinions.  This thread's here for us to come to some common points to help Bioware get there with our assorted perspectives.

Pretty much this (though it took you a while to get to it ) 

I have a lot of faith in Bioware to juggle the competing expectations of supporters and detractors of S/S, especially since this is the final (and supposedly most epic) game in the series and not something they'd be liable to put a half-baked effort into.

In the end I trust the quality of the writing and design team to overcome the challenges, if any exist, of implementing S/S for both male and female Shepard with new or old characters, or any combination of the above. 

I suspect - and I could be wrong - that a significant segment of the negative reaction is instinctive and visceral, rather than rational. I totally acknowledge that many people have issues with continuity (especially with past characters) and I share many of their concerns. But I would suggest that a not-insignificant amount of detractors are hiding their personal discomfort behind a hyper-inflated devotion to continuity at all costs, as if it hasn't been shattered to pieces by many of the changes from ME to ME2 and again from ME2 to ME3. 

That being said, I absolutely prioritise the quality of the content above all else, and I think it's a point we can all agree on. If it's done well - and I'm certain it will be - then I fully expect that what is already shaping up to be a great game will become even better. 

[Sphynx118]

*eats popcorn while watching the s/s people call everyone with a different opinion ignorants or trolls while the homophobes rage their heads off*

You people fit so well together

[Centauri2002]

Sphynx118 wrote...

*eats popcorn while watching the s/s people call everyone with a different opinion ignorants or trolls while the homophobes rage their heads off*

You people fit so well together

You're looking at a very different thread to me then. I think the majority of people from both sides are being reasonable and civil. Instead of trying to rile people up, why don't you add something constructive to the debate? If not, perhaps it would be best to find something else to do?

[SennenScale]

@Sphynx I believe the feeling behind much of this current page went: "We need to hear each other out more, and there's been knee-jerk reactions on both side."

[PMC65]

Illeuad wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

More pandering to the 3-4% and alienating (pun intended) of the vast majority? Score another success like DA2 for Bioware! /sarcasm

BTW, I think it's time people started letter-writing campaigns to EA shareholders. Hit them in their wallets and maybe they'll focus on their priorities again.

Oh please. The "vast majority" won't even realise that M/M romance is possible! Think back to the stats bioware put up, what was the staggering number of people whom didn't even open the Krogran tank? 

You're projecting your beliefs onto the masses, and you're forgetting that just by being here at the fourms, and caring for "little" details like this -- you yourself are most likely in a minority.

M/M relationships really aren't scary, I assume the character will be way more subtle than Zevran and Anders anyway, so let the gays/bis/girls and open minded guys have their fun.  

The Sims 3 has an option for s/s relationships that include woo hoo, commitment ceremonies and adopting babies ... This is an EA/Maxis Game which is quite popular and makes $$$$$ ....

If you have a straight ME world then it will remain a straight ME world.

Tali & Garrus are still "just friends" with my Shepards (never took the romance option) and so the fact that they became romanceable ... it has never impacted my game play.

This is just one small part of the game that will be optional. Bioware has stated that they are increasing the friendship dialogue after listening to the fan base about "Calibrations" complaint so you will be able to continue the "just friends" path with your squad and old ME pals.

[Sphynx118]

centauri2002 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

*eats popcorn while watching the s/s people call everyone with a different opinion ignorants or trolls while the homophobes rage their heads off*

You people fit so well together

You're looking at a very different thread to me then. I think the majority of people from both sides are being reasonable and civil. Instead of trying to rile people up, why don't you add something constructive to the debate? If not, perhaps it would be best to find something else to do?

You calmed down abit these last pages but DW it will start again. *Keeps eating*

[Centauri2002]

Sphynx118 wrote...
You calmed down abit these last pages but DW it will start again. *Keeps eating*

There have been people who have never stooped to insults, irrationality or provoking. Of course there are always going to be people who are overly passionate about a subject but if we all stay respectful I think a dialogue can remain open. That said, there are more than two sides to this debate. I'm not sure why this "us" and "them" mentality keeps cropping up.

And your attitude isn't helping much either, might I add. Do you actually have anything constructive to say?

[Sphynx118]

centauri2002 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
You calmed down abit these last pages but DW it will start again. *Keeps eating*

There have been people who have never stooped to insults, irrationality or provoking. Of course there are always going to be people who are overly passionate about a subject but if we all stay respectful I think a dialogue can remain open. That said, there are more than two sides to this debate. I'm not sure why this "us" and "them" mentality keeps cropping up.

And your attitude isn't helping much either, might I add. Do you actually have anything constructive to say?

Introduce s/s but dont change existing characters sexuality unless it was hinted at in previous installments? *Popcoorrrrn*

[Siansonea]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


No, just that a lot of people have come here with arguments so poorly-reasoned that they are anti-convincing. Like if I were reading a book and someone came by and said "oh, I love that book! It's where I learned that the clockwork in our teeth makes us all forget high school German!" I'd probably start... reconsidering the value of that book.

At first I didn't want a situation where everyone revealed themselves to be bi because everyone being bisexual would interfere with my suspension of disbelief. I thought ok, maybe one or two of the old squad might be bi... still, nobody can agree on which one or two would make the most sense, so the safest bet is to introduce a few new same-sex-exclusive love interests. (possibly with an official "no gender flag" mode to achieve what the modders do with modding - out of continuity head-canon romances.) 

Then, as people came in here shouting "It is a fact that X is straight because he once looked at a girl," and other things that were far, far worse, my feelings began to shift. I already believed that it was reasonable to assume guys who liked girls were probably straight, but to claim it was a fact showed immense arrogance. People said it would ruin the games, destroy Bioware, etc, and  I thought.. my god, do I sound like that? When I say "it would disturb my suspension of disbelief" am I being that selfish and aggro? Maybe and maybe not, but sheesh.

I still think that the best option is a few new s/s exclusive romances, no new straight romances whatsoever, and a patch or option that makes all romances available to their non-canon gender, outside of canon, just for fun. But now I realize that most of the crazier people would be just as enraged by that as by any other possibility. So everything seems hopeless.

I always thought you did come up with some pretty good comprimises for this situation.  And I do feel in the end, there's going to have to be a comprimise especially once one of the news networks decides to go crazy with misinformation on it.

I also will admit during some of the more heated discussion on this, I have had my moments of thinking "Just take out all the romances, they cause too much damn drama."  But that's rectified with just stepping away from the computer for a few and rationality returns.  'Tis my flaw to really get into a good meaty debate.

With some of the arguements on both sides of the debate, I'm still shaking my head at the level of vitriol flung around, and sadly any good points that might come up get steamrolled by it.

No matter what happens in the end, this is pretty damn momentus.  I think we're all fully aware of that and know how horribly this could end up if handled poorly, and how revolutionary if handled rightly.

I do understand where each side's coming from, even when they're expressing themselves more like a rabid wombat than a thinking person.

And during all the ups and downs in this thread, we have actually hit on some commonality we all do agree on.  We want good writing for this whether it's for a new LI or established ones, and no ninjamancing.

As much as DA2 gets flung up and we all know it's under a different team than ME, it's all still Bioware and there's that little whispery voice in the back of the head that does say "What if?".  It's normal to be a bit antsy on this simply because it's pretty revolutionary.

Going from all the assorted posts I've seen since I started in here back on page 5, there's been commentary over some feeling forced to play thier game a certain way that usually gets rebutted with 'then don't do it' for that point.  The correct response should've been "Why do you feel forced?" so there can be some discussion over what about it makes that person feel forced rather than just shut them up as if they're talking crazy and make them feel they're not bringing up a concern.

Even with that damn toggle discussion for how many pages it went, I honestly thought we'd be discussing the logistics and scope of it, but instead it went on a wild tangent of censorship.  Silly M...thinking people wouldn't freak out about it.

Somewhere along the line, and it was pretty much inevitable in light of this weighty topic, there's been sniping over interpretations of characters with both sides often bringing up the same examples to prove thier points.  To me that says more to each of us sees things differently on what's essentially a blank template than a "you're interpreting this wrong".

To use an example, let's look at Kaidan.  Many see him as potentially bi, I don't.  Going over the reasons stated of "He feels that way" or such, doesn't make either of us wrong.  We're just interpreting him differently according to our worldview.  If he does end up bi in game, it's not going to send me to a frothing gnashing of the teeth, but more along the lines of an eye roll like I did with the Garrus/Tali change to LI status.  Won't impact any of my playthroughs other than one of my Sheps'll be likely breaking into a chorus of "Oh Happy Day!".

And really, the argument of "He never said he wasn't bi" is like a default 'Nuh-uh', in debate.  Just because I've never said I'm royalty doesn't mean I am.  Just because none of the characters have said they're bi, it just means that they either aren't or maybe they are.  It's not a definite.

With the existing LIs there sure is a trend of either "I want the LI I like to be the orientation I want" or "I'm fine with s/s with any of the LIs but not the ones my Shep's with".  Neither view's too condusive for discussion since we're all pretty damn attached to them and as we've seen in the fan threads, we'll defend them tooth and nail.

Somewhere in all this I think I was aiming for a specific point.

I guess when all's said and done, we all agree that we want what's best for an enjoyable game.  As far as getting to that point, we all have differing opinions.  This thread's here for us to come to some common points to help Bioware get there with our assorted perspectives.

These are both great posts. As for me, I don't care how they implement s/s in the game, new characters or old characters or both. New characters is probably easiest, and yet I know some older characters might have a little more dramatic weight for the story and all that. Either way, if it's written well, I'm in. I think that's how most people feel. I think making romance dialog very clear is a great idea, having all be the Paragon choices is kind of silly. I always thought to romance somebody like Jack, you should have had to say a lot of Renegade things, etc. A simple [Flirt] tag before the text seems to solve the problem. Not interested in the character? Don't flirt with them, they won't flirt with you. If you don't start nothin', it ain't gonna be nothin'.

As far as the endless arguments about existing LI characters being bisexual, the bottom line is that nothing is defined. We know parts of their history. We can assume a lot, and we might be right, but there's a chance we don't know everything. In any case, neither side can "prove" that a character is bisexual or straight based on what we've seen previously. Technically it's an open question. But it's perfectly reasonable to assume in the absence of any new information that they're straight. It's also perfectly reasonable that one or two of them might surprise you with some new facts about themselves. It's not like a dextro-chiral alien with an exoskeleton suddenly being open to having sex with...oh wait.  I agree that an all-bi free-for-all might be fun for some, but I would think it was rather "meta". Much like Shepard dying and coming back to life just to reset the skill trees and equipment inventory.

I'm kind of in the "I might not like everything, but not much will break the game for me" camp. I didn't like a lot of things in ME2 (pointless and silly death and resurrection, working for Cerberus, liquid human smoothies for baby Reapers, calibrations, Tali romance, Garrus romance, Thane romance, etc.) but none of them broke the game for me. I played the heck out of that game, and I still play it. I'm even doing some ME1>ME2 replays of my canon characters to get just the right mix of pre-ME3 save game variations. 

I guess my point is that I like options. Options are good. Even options I don't like. The Garrus romance option makes a lot of people happy, even though I would SO not go there (giant crickets aren't my thing) but it's presence as an option makes my decision to pick Jacob or whoever that much more of a conscious choice. In ME1, if I wanted to romance a dude, it had to be Kaidan. In ME2, I at least got to choose between Jacob and two male aliens, even though I would never go for either of those aliens. Some would argue that the quality of those romances wasn't all that great, but I think given how different each of them was, it was quite a feat to pull it off. 

So yay more options.

[ME_Fan]

nah nevermind

Modifié par ME_Fan, 18 mai 2011 - 03:37 .

[jlb524]

snfonseka wrote...

Even though Casey said otherwise, I have a feeling that most popular LI characters will be bi-sexual in ME3.

He really hasn't debunked this regardless...his statement about it was pretty vague.  the only thing I think his statement may have debunked is the idea that all past LIs will now be bisexual (which won't happen...too much work anyway).

So, having one or two past LIs come out as bisexual seems still seems likely to me.

[JetsoverEverything]

the game is about saving the universe and all you guys do is argue about romance.

[Someone With Mass]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

the game is about saving the universe and all you guys do is argue about romance.

Yep. Saving the galaxy is their excuse to pork people they've known for only a few hours.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 18 mai 2011 - 03:52 .

[ElitePinecone]

It will calm down in a few days, hopefully. The media attention and the fact that this thread is stickied is attracting a lot of random supporters and opponents who come in guns blazing for their particular side.

I'd hope that once everyone realises this isn't going to "OMGZ RUIN EVERYTHING" that we can get back to a forum that isn't two pages of locked threads discussing the same topic - a topic that accounts for a few lines of dialogue in a 40-hour game. Here's hoping some of the combat reveals at E3 and before then will grab some of the attention.

Because - as I've maintained personally for a long time - the romances really aren't the focus of ME, nor should they be. It's one small facet of a much, much wider game and narrative. Something that could've been improved, yes - and now it has been - but not a game-defining, deal-breaking feature. There are many other exciting and engaging parts of the series.