6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Siansonea II wrote...
"BioWare is giving everyone options in the game now! That's so unfair!"

"I don't want a some sort of option at the start of the game because it would be a 'negative message' about my cause of choice."

[Phaelducan]

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

[M-Sinistrari]

Phaelducan wrote...

Opening a thread is fine... opening dozens and blasting the forums with thousands of posts demanding gay romance options?

Irritating.

If memory serves those threads did get closed down and people directed over to the Fight for the Love thread.

[Centauri2002]

ReconTeam wrote...

There is nothing wrong with a toggle option except that a few people consider it "offensive". Some people find the whole concept of homosexual relationships offensive. If were doing everything to be politically correct, shouldn't they matter?

I would much rather have this toggle and experience the game with the characters as they originally were as opposed to their new bisexual versions. It might make Jacob 2.0 slightly more tolerable too.

It's been repeated many times throughout this thread. Not everyone is going to be bisexual. There hasn't even been an announcement about established characters being bisexual. 

[jlb524]

Phaelducan wrote...

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

You keep bumping the thread.

[SalsaDMA]

I get busy with real life, this thread gets created, and it's at 108 pages before I even get to read the first message in it... I'm not even gonna contemplate wasting the time to go through all that to 'catch up' on stuff being said.

Irrespective of ones opinions on the subject, I think it is of worth to note a few things:

-There are people that actively say they won't purchase the product solely because of this choice. I haven't heard anyone claim they won't buy a game yet because of the opposite (ie. people saying they won't buy a game if it doesn't incorporate homosexual stuff). In this regard, even a neutral standpoint should acknowledge that the inclusion of the option only serves to cut down on sales, whatever the actual number may be.

-Peoples focus have made a sharp turn from being occupied about how the game dealt with the plot and gameplay, to it being 'the spacegay game'. Presumably, LI interactions should have been a minor thing in the game, just one extra thing to add atmosphere. At this point, it seems as if it is all the game is about, as far as where the 'post moving' happens. Is this really a desirable thing for the development team? That their actual game be overshadowed (both in peoples reasoning for purchasing it, as well as what people seemingly care about) by what should have been just a minor feature in their game? If a 'homosexual interaction simulator' is really what people are discussing, and there is a market for such, why not just create such a product seperately and market it as such, instead of risking a succesfull franchise being turned into another product in peoples minds than what it was supposed to be?

-Lots of peple are going to get really pissed if the writers aren't extremely carefull with how they treat established characters, and careless or bad writing on the parts of any exisiting characters run a real risk of 'fan-hate'. Again, are the developers really prepared to devote the resources needed for making a supposedly minor feature not turn into a sword of Damocles?

[Centauri2002]

Phaelducan wrote...

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

You does not equate to "most of us". If you care so little for this topic, why are you posting so often in this thread? Why are you even reading it? If you find it annoying, simply do not click on it. Better that than to cause an argument over something so trivial, no? 

[Cootie]

Phaelducan wrote...

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

Because there is apparently an ongoing discussion regarding it. And if you are not interested, ignore it.
Unless you wish to suggest there to be a toggle to filter out homosexual content from the social network.

[Phaelducan]

Yeah.... because if I didn't post this thread would totally go away.

The reason it's still around is because all the Fight for the Love junkies want to feel validated and self-righteous about their victory.

You got what you wanted, Shep is going to be S/S enabled. It's not even a discussion anymore, as Bioware has confirmed it.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Phaelducan wrote...
There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

Because now half of them want most characters to turn bisexual, and any notion of compromising with those who find this sort of thing offensive is "just wrong" because somehow sexuality = skin color.

Some seem quite insistent on letting everybody know they're gay. Take that for what you will.

[Wereparrot]

RinjiRenee wrote...

The Narrator wrote...

so by merging a sarcastic heterosexual rebellious wizard, with a Spirit with no sexual feelings or physical attatchments bent on justice and truth at any cost.

makes a homosexual.

Makes perfect sense.

1) Anders was bisexual before merging with Justice
2) He is bisexual

Makes sense to me.

Up from the depths, but anyway...

I don't remember any evidence in Awakening suggesting that Anders was bi, apart from being a bit camp. He did say, however, about his desire to find a nice girl and shoot lightning at fools. I'm sorry, but why is it wrong to, from this evidence and the lack of any hard evidence to the contrary, to assume that he is straight? What else is he supposed to do, randomly break out in conversation that 'oh, by the way, I'm straight'? Ironically, that would be your evidence.  

[SennenScale]

Phaelducan wrote...

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

We're discussing how it might be implemented, avoiding ninjamances in general, etc. We aren't bugging you unless just having this thread exist is bugging you (which is a bit unreasonable) or dragging you into this thread against your will.

[Siansonea]

ReconTeam wrote...

There is nothing wrong with a toggle option except that a few people consider it "offensive". Some people find the whole concept of homosexual relationships offensive. If were doing everything to be politically correct, shouldn't they matter?

I would much rather have this toggle and experience the game with the characters as they originally were as opposed to their new bisexual versions. It might make Jacob 2.0 slightly more tolerable too.

Do we know that any of the existing characters will be bisexual? I haven't heard anything definitive.

I also find it interesting that you—a person who has opposed any sort of accommodation for those of us who support same-sex content—are now stating that BioWare might not be accommodating others by giving them an extra layer of protection from homosexual content in the form of a toggle. To me, having the option of not pursuing a story point is an accommodation, which is more than I can say for my anti-Cerberus feelings. Where was my anti-Cerberus toggle in ME2? I get that some people might be weirded out by the idea of two dudes together. Whatever, I don't see the big deal, but I don't think about it too much. But I do have a real problem with my character working with known terrorists in a game, and yet I was forced to do that very thing in every playthrough, even if I was able to have Shepard say impolite things to the Illusive Man every now and then. I don't know, I guess I care more about things like that than I do about other people's sexuality, but maybe I'm in the minority.

[Sahariel]

Great news that s/s romances will be supported in ME3. That said I have a few concerns I've picked up from threads like these and playing some of Bioware's past rpg's.

1. Don't make every romance option Bi, it's tired and it's lazy. I felt that a lot of the romances in DA2 felt a bit generic as a result. Making every character the same in any way, wether it's race, religon or sexual orientation, robs us of variety and depth.

2. Don't stop NPC's hitting on Shepherd. Although I'm straight, and I always pursue hetero romances, I really liked Zevran, and the fact that he hits on anything that moves (wether it's my character or not) is part of his personality. Just having a collection of shy retiring wallflowers who always wait on the main character to make the first move again just leads to tired and generic romances.

3. If I choose NOT to romance someone I still want in depth friendships, choosing not to romance Morrigan in DA:O, led to an incredibly heart warming scene I found incredibly moving, an experiance I would not have had if I had romanced her. Romances should not always be seen as the top of the pyramid in rpg relationship arcs.

4. A toggle is just ridiculous, if you don't want to romance someone tell them in the game no. No one is going to make anyone sit through a love scene they haven't brought about themselves. Homosexuality is a fact of life get over it. It may not be as common as some on these threads have argued, but it's there and it's no reason to hate anyone.

[Cootie]

Phaelducan wrote...

Yeah.... because if I didn't post this thread would totally go away.

The reason it's still around is because all the Fight for the Love junkies want to feel validated and self-righteous about their victory.

You got what you wanted, Shep is going to be S/S enabled. It's not even a discussion anymore, as Bioware has confirmed it.

We're quite honestly discussing the implications and possibilities and so forth. The only reason there is still tension in the air is because of the opposition's rather aggressive methods of, well, buzzkilling.

I never said this would go away. It might grow into something less of a conflict and more of a discussion if people would let it.
So shhh. There, there.

[M-Sinistrari]

centauri2002 wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

There is something wrong with bugging the hell out of the other users on the forum. Most of us don't give two rips whether Shep wanted to tag men, women, or rutabagas, we just wanted you to shut-up about it. You've won now, so why is this stupid issue still not going away?

You does not equate to "most of us". If you care so little for this topic, why are you posting so often in this thread? Why are you even reading it? If you find it annoying, simply do not click on it. Better that than to cause an argument over something so trivial, no? 

I can understand where Phaelducan's coming from.  We all have the basic human point of "I want to be heard.", but with that goes the concern of if group X is being heard, is less attention being paid to the rest of the groups.

That this thread exists for discussion, to me at least, is proof that Bioware wants to hear from everyone about this.

[Centauri2002]

SalsaDMA wrote...

-There are people that actively say they won't purchase the product solely because of this choice. I haven't heard anyone claim they won't buy a game yet because of the opposite (ie. people saying they won't buy a game if it doesn't incorporate homosexual stuff). In this regard, even a neutral standpoint should acknowledge that the inclusion of the option only serves to cut down on sales, whatever the actual number may be.

To be fair, this only really indicates that one side of the fence is a bit more reasonable than the other. 

-Peoples focus have made a sharp turn from being occupied about how the game dealt with the plot and gameplay, to it being 'the spacegay game'. Presumably, LI interactions should have been a minor thing in the game, just one extra thing to add atmosphere. At this point, it seems as if it is all the game is about, as far as where the 'post moving' happens. Is this really a desirable thing for the development team? That their actual game be overshadowed (both in peoples reasoning for purchasing it, as well as what people seemingly care about) by what should have been just a minor feature in their game? If a 'homosexual interaction simulator' is really what people are discussing, and there is a market for such, why not just create such a product seperately and market it as such, instead of risking a succesfull franchise being turned into another product in peoples minds than what it was supposed to be?

It's a hot topic at the moment, it'll die down eventually. That, and it's one of a few details that have been released about ME3 so people have jumped on it. That people are so opinionated on something that doesn't even effect them is rather curious though.

-Lots of peple are going to get really pissed if the writers aren't extremely carefull with how they treat established characters, and careless or bad writing on the parts of any exisiting characters run a real risk of 'fan-hate'. Again, are the developers really prepared to devote the resources needed for making a supposedly minor feature not turn into a sword of Damocles?

People will get pissed if characters aren't written well anyway. This is no different. Why should bisexual characters have to be held to a higher standard than heterosexual characters?

Apparently BioWare are willing to take all of these risks. And I applaud them for that.

[Inquisitor Recon]

centauri2002 wrote...
It's been repeated many times throughout this thread. Not everyone is going to be bisexual. There hasn't even been an announcement about established characters being bisexual. 

Considering Bioware's track record here, I'll believe they aren't "rewriting" any of the existing crew members when I see it announced. I can't say I really enjoy the idea of these crew-members who are Shepard's friends basically announcing "oh I am into dudes now, because somebody on the forums complained"
<_<

Modifié par ReconTeam, 18 mai 2011 - 05:08 .

[Phaelducan]

A toggle is stupid, but so is enabling the S/S romances to begin with in the third game of a Trilogy. It's got nothing to do with this issue though. There won't be a toggle, Bioware wouldn't do that.

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

[massive_effect]

centauri2002 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Responding to the OP:
This is a disturbing development. The gay community filibustered the forums with their year-long "fight for the love" threads. Their behavior was the equivalent of flashing themselves in a gay-pride parade. Bioware listened to them?

Actually, some of the most vocal members of that thread were straight. Your rebuttal?

Everyone is straight.

[NICKjnp]

Real life doesn't have a toggle and neither should the game. If you are this offended then don't buy the game.

[Centauri2002]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

I can understand where Phaelducan's coming from.  We all have the basic human point of "I want to be heard.", but with that goes the concern of if group X is being heard, is less attention being paid to the rest of the groups.

That this thread exists for discussion, to me at least, is proof that Bioware wants to hear from everyone about this.

I don't mind someone wanting to discuss an alternate viewpoint to mine. I even enjoy the debate. But saying we should stop giving our opinions because we've "won" when others are voicing their own opinion against the decision is just nonsensical.

[Centauri2002]

massive_effect wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Responding to the OP:
This is a disturbing development. The gay community filibustered the forums with their year-long "fight for the love" threads. Their behavior was the equivalent of flashing themselves in a gay-pride parade. Bioware listened to them?

Actually, some of the most vocal members of that thread were straight. Your rebuttal?

Everyone is straight.

Which completely invalidates your previous statement. Well done. 

[thatguy212]

massive_effect wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Responding to the OP:
This is a disturbing development. The gay community filibustered the forums with their year-long "fight for the love" threads. Their behavior was the equivalent of flashing themselves in a gay-pride parade. Bioware listened to them?

Actually, some of the most vocal members of that thread were straight. Your rebuttal?

Everyone is straight.

Even Neil Patrick Harris?