6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Siansonea II wrote...
I also find it interesting that you—a person who has opposed any sort of accommodation for those of us who support same-sex content—are now stating that BioWare might not be accommodating others by giving them an extra layer of protection from homosexual content in the form of a toggle. To me, having the option of not pursuing a story point is an accommodation, which is more than I can say for my anti-Cerberus feelings. Where was my anti-Cerberus toggle in ME2? I get that some people might be weirded out by the idea of two dudes together. Whatever, I don't see the big deal, but I don't think about it too much. But I do have a real problem with my character working with known terrorists in a game, and yet I was forced to do that very thing in every playthrough, even if I was able to have Shepard say impolite things to the Illusive Man every now and then. I don't know, I guess I care more about things like that than I do about other people's sexuality, but maybe I'm in the minority.

Of course I oppose pandering under the guise of "accommodating" to begin with. Yet if they are going to go ahead and do this anyway they might as well give people the ability to opt out of it completely. To basically get the same deal you were getting in ME1 and ME2. Considering Cerberus is hardly a terrorist organization in the conventional sense, and that is a major plot point of the game, I don't think those complaints have much merit. Are you implying that homosexuality should be some sort of major plot point of the game?

[Centauri2002]

ReconTeam wrote...
Considering Bioware's track record here, I'll believe they aren't "rewriting" any of the existing crew members when I see it announced. I can't say I really enjoy the idea of these crew-members who are Shepard's friends basically announcing "oh I am into dudes now, because somebody on the forums complained"
<_<

Do you really think the writing will be so poor that you're going to witness the couple of bisexual love interests in the game announcing their sexuality to the world? It shouldn't even come up unless you show romantic interest in them. 

[Nashiktal]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Opening a thread is fine... opening dozens and blasting the forums with thousands of posts demanding gay romance options?

Irritating.

If memory serves those threads did get closed down and people directed over to the Fight for the Love thread.

Is Phaelducan ignoring the dozens of posts and petitions demanding to remove gay romance? Its not limited to one group you know.

*ahem*

In any case I have a question. If we are going to have previous characters turn BI, which ones would you think are the most acceptable to change story wise? I always thought that Tali was one who would be most likely BI, she seemed to have a crush on femshep. Garrus also to me seems another likely case, he starts the romance with femshep mostly out of respect instead of attraction.

[Sahariel]

Phaelducan wrote...

A toggle is stupid, but so is enabling the S/S romances to begin with in the third game of a Trilogy. It's got nothing to do with this issue though. There won't be a toggle, Bioware wouldn't do that.

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

There is nothing stupid about tolerance and inclusion, and giving people a "put your fingers in your ears and go NANANANANANAN" toggle is.

Hmmm so just because when someone finds themselves in a minority they should accept not being represented? That is one of the most asinine repsonses I've seen on a forum in a long time.

It is hugely different, first of all when a class forum whines in an MMO that group will be made up of rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight, male, female gamers. When s/s options are left out that alienates an entire real world group.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

"I'm against BioWare changing the game to accommodate forum complaints so I'm complaining on the forums in hopes that they will accommodate me."

[Inquisitor Recon]

centauri2002 wrote...
Do you really think the writing will be so poor that you're going to witness the couple of bisexual love interests in the game announcing their sexuality to the world? It shouldn't even come up unless you show romantic interest in them. 

So what is that supposed to mean? If you don't select that option they are straight, and if you do they are bisexual? How is this an ideal compared to the "offensive" toggle?

[horizon011]

There once was a time where i would pretty much assume anything released by bioware would be of quality and worthy of money but now my faith in the bioware company is slowly depleting away with its shocking bad release of Dragon Age 2 with its gay stuff everywhere and recyled environments over n over until u bang your head against the wall. Its very limited map... But now Mass Effect 3 is slowly going downhill with its now promised gay stuff..

If the gay stuff was something u needed to go out of your way to do than sure i dont care but in Dragon Age 2 i immediately thought what the ************************ i got guys coming onto me everywhere. call me whatever you please but the majority of gamers dont want to be forced into ****** stuff with every male character they see.Im sure the 1% of gays loved the idea of every guy hitting on them.

I wont be buying Mass Effect 3 until reviews come out showing all these problems that plagued dragon age dont exist.Please reinstall the faith of a large group of people who are now saying Bioware is now dead ! Bring Mass Effect 3 out with alot of PC support and dont let it be a port ! no recycled environments! no forcing gay stuff on the player over n over!

This being said im sure the game is probably already built and theres a big chance this game is very similia to dragon age 2s problems.

sorry if u think im being closed minded ** reposted in here due to mod


***************************


Atleast have a option at the start to OPT out of the same sex stuff at the front of the game.

[ShadyKat]

I just hope to god, that everyone isn't bisexual in ME3. That had to be the absolutely, dumbest thing ever in DA2.

Kaidan - he was originally going to be bi in ME1. So I'd be okay if he is in ME3.

Ashley - Should be straight.

Liara - Bi

Garrus - straight

Miranda - straight

Jacob - straight

Thane - straight

Tali - bi

[M-Sinistrari]

centauri2002 wrote...

I don't mind someone wanting to discuss an alternate viewpoint to mine. I even enjoy the debate. But saying we should stop giving our opinions because we've "won" when others are voicing their own opinion against the decision is just nonsensical.

Still ties in with the perspective of "If others are being heard, I might be ignored".  I do get the vibe from many of the more intense of the anti- crowd that it is a valid fear of thier viewpoint being ignored especially when compared to the conviction the Fight for the Love crowd proved with sticking with a subject that they knew was going to get a lot of flack just on principle.  Looking at how long people stuck with it, that's very impressive, especially with how fleeting things can be on the internet.

So, deconstructing the example in your post, someone stating that 'you've won so shut up about it' comes across to me as someone who feels that their opinon's potentially going to be ignored.  That they don't elaborate as to the whys to thier opinion doesn't really contribute to much beyond snarking tempers.

[jlb524]

Nashiktal wrote...

In any case I have a question. If we are going to have previous characters turn BI, which ones would you think are the most acceptable to change story wise? I always thought that Tali was one who would be most likely BI, she seemed to have a crush on femshep. Garrus also to me seems another likely case, he starts the romance with femshep mostly out of respect instead of attraction.

I honestly think they could make sense of it with any character.

Tali might fit more, given her 'awkward' behavior around FemShep in ME2. 

Garrus too, as he only goes for FemShep b/c of personality, having zero physical attraction for humans.

[Centauri2002]

Nashiktal wrote...

Is Phaelducan ignoring the dozens of posts and petitions demanding to remove gay romance? Its not limited to one group you know.

*ahem*

In any case I have a question. If we are going to have previous characters turn BI, which ones would you think are the most acceptable to change story wise? I always thought that Tali was one who would be most likely BI, she seemed to have a crush on femshep. Garrus also to me seems another likely case, he starts the romance with femshep mostly out of respect instead of attraction.

I think for the sake of keeping the most amount of people happy and for compromise, I would prefer to see the same sex romances limited to fresh characters. I'm getting so tired of the same excuses cropping up about how it would ruin existing characters. Obviously enough people are against it to merit some thought on it though. I'm willing to accept that compromise if others are willing to compromise and stop complaining about optional content being in the game that they don't even have to see.

[Phaelducan]

centauri2002 wrote...

M-Sinistrari wrote...

I can understand where Phaelducan's coming from.  We all have the basic human point of "I want to be heard.", but with that goes the concern of if group X is being heard, is less attention being paid to the rest of the groups.

That this thread exists for discussion, to me at least, is proof that Bioware wants to hear from everyone about this.

I don't mind someone wanting to discuss an alternate viewpoint to mine. I even enjoy the debate. But saying we should stop giving our opinions because we've "won" when others are voicing their own opinion against the decision is just nonsensical.

No it isn't, it's called being graceful. You complained and complained for years now, you got what you want, now accept that victory as well as accept that some people aren't happy with said victory. 

I didn't want S/S romances in ME3. Boo frickin hoo, they are there anyway. I'll still buy the game. Life goes on.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
"I'm against BioWare changing the game to accommodate forum complaints so I'm complaining on the forums in hopes that they will accommodate me."

If they are going to bother to pander to individuals like yourself they should take a minimal amount of effort to respect the viewpoints of others. At least I never played the "woe is us, Bioware is being bigots" card while objecting to any form of compromise along the lines of a "toggle" at the start of the game.

[Cainne Chapel]

Really Horizon011? Really?

I've played DA2... and the only character i even remotely remember coming on to Hawke was Zevran and he was known to swing that way since DAO

and how does a same sex romance option (which has been in ME since 1) have anything to do with recycle environments? Talk about mashing two completely divergent topics together.

Seriously man, sit back, take a deep breath and relax. Remember ME team and DA team are two completely different teams.

and I've yet to hear ANYONE say bioware is dead....anywhere.

[Nashiktal]

horizon011 wrote...

There once was a time where i would pretty much assume anything released by bioware would be of quality and worthy of money but now my faith in the bioware company is slowly depleting away with its shocking bad release of Dragon Age 2 with its gay stuff everywhere and recyled environments over n over until u bang your head against the wall. Its very limited map... But now Mass Effect 3 is slowly going downhill with its now promised gay stuff..

If the gay stuff was something u needed to go out of your way to do than sure i dont care but in Dragon Age 2 i immediately thought what the ************************ i got guys coming onto me everywhere. call me whatever you please but the majority of gamers dont want to be forced into ****** stuff with every male character they see.Im sure the 1% of gays loved the idea of every guy hitting on them.

I wont be buying Mass Effect 3 until reviews come out showing all these problems that plagued dragon age dont exist.Please reinstall the faith of a large group of people who are now saying Bioware is now dead ! Bring Mass Effect 3 out with alot of PC support and dont let it be a port ! no recycled environments! no forcing gay stuff on the player over n over!

This being said im sure the game is probably already built and theres a big chance this game is very similia to dragon age 2s problems.

sorry if u think im being closed minded ** reposted in here due to mod


***************************


Atleast have a option at the start to OPT out of the same sex stuff at the front of the game.

BWAHAHAHAHAA

Coming onto you everwhere? Someone didn't play DA2.

[Centauri2002]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Still ties in with the perspective of "If others are being heard, I might be ignored".  I do get the vibe from many of the more intense of the anti- crowd that it is a valid fear of thier viewpoint being ignored especially when compared to the conviction the Fight for the Love crowd proved with sticking with a subject that they knew was going to get a lot of flack just on principle.  Looking at how long people stuck with it, that's very impressive, especially with how fleeting things can be on the internet.

So, deconstructing the example in your post, someone stating that 'you've won so shut up about it' comes across to me as someone who feels that their opinon's potentially going to be ignored.  That they don't elaborate as to the whys to thier opinion doesn't really contribute to much beyond snarking tempers.

I can see that viewpoint as well. The most reasonable way to be heard is to engage in civil debate though. Anger and snarkiness is rarely going to be taken seriously. Even a single post as to why you don't like the idea of something is less likely to be seen than an ongoing debate. So a dialogue between two sides of an argument is probably the easiest way for your point to be seen, even if it is mixed in with an opposing one.

[SennenScale]

Same for me. I was never hit on except by Isabela.


Oh, but nobody is upset about unwanted advances by a female character. *eye roll*

[Phaelducan]

Sahariel wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

A toggle is stupid, but so is enabling the S/S romances to begin with in the third game of a Trilogy. It's got nothing to do with this issue though. There won't be a toggle, Bioware wouldn't do that.

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

There is nothing stupid about tolerance and inclusion, and giving people a "put your fingers in your ears and go NANANANANANAN" toggle is.

Hmmm so just because when someone finds themselves in a minority they should accept not being represented? That is one of the most asinine repsonses I've seen on a forum in a long time.

It is hugely different, first of all when a class forum whines in an MMO that group will be made up of rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight, male, female gamers. When s/s options are left out that alienates an entire real world group.

No it's not. It's exactly the same. Whine whine whine, boo hoo, poor pitiful me I don't have what I want now so I'm going to complain about it until I do. Star Wars didn't have a homosexual love interest, neither did Lord of the Rings, there are tons of others. You choose to feel disenfranchised, it wasn't the lack of S/S options for Shepard. Hell you had them in Dragon Age 1 and 2, and Liara is functionally half of that equation for ME.

I don't care what color or orientation you are, but all representations don't HAVE to be represented in every single game product out there. Even worse is that ME1 and 2 were already established, so it's even more assinine to add it now.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
If they are going to bother to pander to individuals like yourself they should take a minimal amount of effort to respect the viewpoints of others. At least I never played the "woe is us, Bioware is being bigots" card while objecting to any form of compromise along the lines of a "toggle" at the start of the game.

The game already has a toggle for same-sex relationships; it's called NOT PURSUING THEM.

And the fact that it is optional does respect the viewpoints of others.  That's why it's an option.

So, yes, a "toggle" is not a compromise.  It's a stupid idea meant to pander to homophobes who are afraid of accidentally seeing gayness, or something.  Whatever your excuse is as to why you deem this absurd toggle necessary.

[horizon011]

the reason why it was mashed because i made a seperate topic but the mod thought it be better in the same sex section < so i reposted and edited it because of that <

im sure not everyone is in the same circles cainne u dont have to agree with me but its there eitherway.

i just want it to be strictly optional...have an option to disallow it for people who are not gay,who has religious , who dislike homosexuality because of some personal belief, or just me who doesnt enjoy being hit on by male characters forcefully.

[Erani]

Phaelducan wrote...

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

I'd like to add that just because someone was not too active in the FFTL group/thread (perhaps just joined or lurked in shadows, busy with work, school etc) does not mean that he/she wouldn't support or enjoy s/s content.
In other words, there a people like myself who didn't open any threads or write many comments but still are happy with this new development. What's with this minority crap? How do you know how many people support or oppose s/s content? Maybe it's the other way, and it's those who don't want s/s LIs who are in the minority...I don't know, don't see any numbers. Obviously, BioWare decided to include romantic content for all orientations; didn't do it in the past, are doing it now, so what? Grow up.

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

-There are people that actively say they won't purchase the product solely because of this choice. I haven't heard anyone claim they won't buy a game yet because of the opposite (ie. people saying they won't buy a game if it doesn't incorporate homosexual stuff). In this regard, even a neutral standpoint should acknowledge that the inclusion of the option only serves to cut down on sales, whatever the actual number may be.

To be fair, this only really indicates that one side of the fence is a bit more reasonable than the other.

Now you are the one being unreasonable. People are entitled to their opinions regarding the issue, and not purchasing a product that advocates stuff they don't agree with or find personally distatefull is a personally reasonable response. I'm sorry, but your opinion does not hold more 'worth' than their opinion, and certainly not when the matter concerns how they should spend their money.

-Peoples focus have made a sharp turn from being occupied about how the game dealt with the plot and gameplay, to it being 'the spacegay game'. Presumably, LI interactions should have been a minor thing in the game, just one extra thing to add atmosphere. At this point, it seems as if it is all the game is about, as far as where the 'post moving' happens. Is this really a desirable thing for the development team? That their actual game be overshadowed (both in peoples reasoning for purchasing it, as well as what people seemingly care about) by what should have been just a minor feature in their game? If a 'homosexual interaction simulator' is really what people are discussing, and there is a market for such, why not just create such a product seperately and market it as such, instead of risking a succesfull franchise being turned into another product in peoples minds than what it was supposed to be?

It's a hot topic at the moment, it'll die down eventually. That, and it's one of a few details that have been released about ME3 so people have jumped on it. That people are so opinionated on something that doesn't even effect them is rather curious though.

But it does affect them. Wether they want to or not, they will have to deal with it every time they play the game, if they decide to get it anyway in spite of this issue.

-Lots of peple are going to get really pissed if the writers aren't extremely carefull with how they treat established characters, and careless or bad writing on the parts of any exisiting characters run a real risk of 'fan-hate'. Again, are the developers really prepared to devote the resources needed for making a supposedly minor feature not turn into a sword of Damocles?

People will get pissed if characters aren't written well anyway. This is no different. Why should bisexual characters have to be held to a higher standard than heterosexual characters?

Apparently BioWare are willing to take all of these risks. And I applaud them for that.

Badly written characters, and badly written characters doing 180 degrees on who they are as a person is not even the same thing. Anders from DA2 is still hotly debated because of this, and he was even a 'minor' character in peoples mind compared to what the NPCs in the ME series are.

You applaud them. I am appalled at them for giving in to a vocal minority if said group just spam enough about a topic.

If anything, the u-turn should act as fuel for anyone to start campaigns for 'their view of the game'. After all, as we witnessed even with this issue, nothing is written in stone untill the game is released.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Like it or not Bioware does not have the best track record here. Despite how Horizon phrased his argument your telling me his views don't matter? Is this 18th century France or something? "The opinions of those classless, rude commoners doesn't matter." Your entire cause reeks of elitism.

[Siansonea]

Phaelducan wrote...

A toggle is stupid, but so is enabling the S/S romances to begin with in the third game of a Trilogy. It's got nothing to do with this issue though. There won't be a toggle, Bioware wouldn't do that.

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

A parable:

A restaurant that previously only served beef and chicken is now also serving tofu. For most customers, it's no big deal, they'll just keep ordering beef or chicken, in fact the restaurant is also offering some wonderful new beef and chicken dishes. Others might order beef and chicken most of the time, but also order a new tofu dish now and then, just for variety. But for others, the very idea that somebody could be ordering tofu in their restaurant when it wasn't on the menu from the beginning, well, that's just an outrage! They've been coming here for years, and never had to see tofu on the menu! If this restaurant wants to continue having their business, then they are going to have to have tofu-free menus, and rooms where people who want tofu can be seated away from everyone else, so no one else has to see them having their tofu. Or better yet, NO TOFU!! Those tofu people can make that stuff in the privacy of their own homes if they want, but don't go flaunting it in the rest of our faces. The very idea that somebody could be eating tofu...ewwwwwww. 

Really, that's what this all sounds like to me.