6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Centauri2002]

TommyServo wrote...

horizon011 wrote...

I felt i needed to click the gay stuff just to get him loyal i felt like i was in the situation where i needed to say things that to me sounded gay. I didnt take it to the end but alot of the conversation with that guy seemed highly gay. And that to me is forced

Well, you felt wrong. I turned him down and maxed his friendship early on. 10 rivalry is a drop in the bucket.

Indeed. As a LadyHawke I didn't even have him proposition me. In fact, I didn't have any romantic interest from any male characters. Just as I wanted it.

[horizon011]

no i mean like when u click New Campaign a pop up comes up " Do You Allow Homosexuality In The Game " thus removing alot of peoples issue and keeping the gays/bi curious people happy.

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Now you are the one being unreasonable. People are entitled to their opinions regarding the issue, and not purchasing a product that advocates stuff they don't agree with or find personally distatefull is a personally reasonable response. I'm sorry, but your opinion does not hold more 'worth' than their opinion, and certainly not when the matter concerns how they should spend their money.

You're making an assumption and if you'd taken any time to read through part of this thread at all, you would have seen I don't consider my view more important than anyone else's. I just don't think coming into a thread and throwing a tantrum is a very reasonable thing to do. However, voicing your opinion in a cohesive manner, even if it is opposing to mine is very reasonable. Such as you're doing. Just minus the assumptions.

And, no, it doesn't affect them. Everyone here is in agreement that ninjamancing should be excluded from the game. Shepard has to pursue any romantic interest to initiate it. Therefore, you won't have to deal with anything unwanted. 

If you're appalled by inclusiveness, I just hope that you never find yourself excluded from anything.

Nice try, but doesn't fly.

First of all, the only assumption I made was that you specifically said that people not buying the game because it contained stuff they didn't like were 'unreasonable'. I refuted your claim and showed that it was in fact reasonable. Therefore, you, by calling them unreasonable is the very definition of being unreasonable.

Second, yes it does affect them. I need only point at Jacob and Female Shepards for a case in point. If people want their Shepard to be this 'manly man' that no gay would ever dream of on hitting, they suddenly can't do that anymore, when the game pops homosexual advances into their screen.

And I told you I was appaled by a small vocal minority getting catered to the at the expense of the general customer group. That has nothing to do with what you claimed I was appalled by.

[MACharlie1]

Sphynx118 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

horizon011 wrote...

I felt i needed to click the gay stuff just to get him loyal i felt like i was in the situation where i needed to say things that to me sounded gay. I didnt take it to the end but alot of the conversation with that guy seemed highly gay. And that to me is forced

You are aware you can rival people and they're still loyal, aren't you?

And if he doesnt want a rival relationship?

Plenty of opportunities after turning him down to get a friendship. 

[Servo to the bitter end]

Sphynx118 wrote...

And if he doesnt want a rival relationship?

He can have one? As I said - I shot him down and maxed friendship before the mid point of act 2.

[James2912]

 I am a straight man. i just want people to be able to roleplay THEIR Shepards the way they want. I will keep playing as heteroshepard this doesn't really affect me it just allows more people on this planet to be happy and thats always a good thing! 

[MACharlie1]

horizon011 wrote...

no i mean like when u click New Campaign a pop up comes up " Do You Allow Homosexuality In The Game " thus removing alot of peoples issue and keeping the gays/bi curious people happy.

Whats wrong with just freakin saying NO to the character instead of wasting resources creating a script that removes each line and a script that generates the dialog box in the first place? We NEVER had this option in ME1 and yet we still have Liara acting all "You INTRIGUE me Shepard!" to my FemShep. 

[horizon011]

how open are we allowed to talk on here before a moderator bans us or restricts what we say ?? im not being a troll but im unsure on the boundary when it comes to this gay stuff <... can a mod please inform me ?

[SennenScale]

Sphynx118 wrote...

And if he doesnt want a rival relationship?

It's incredibly, laughably easy to undo a few rivarly points. You have more than enough to completely friend Anders with out.

EDIT: Just cutting down on the quote pyramid issue. It bugged me after seeing the post posted.

Modifié par SennenScale, 18 mai 2011 - 05:55 .

[Sphynx118]

MACharlie1 wrote...

horizon011 wrote...

no i mean like when u click New Campaign a pop up comes up " Do You Allow Homosexuality In The Game " thus removing alot of peoples issue and keeping the gays/bi curious people happy.

Whats wrong with just freakin saying NO to the character instead of wasting resources creating a script that removes each line and a script that generates the dialog box in the first place? We NEVER had this option in ME1 and yet we still have Liara acting all "You INTRIGUE me Shepard!" to my FemShep. 

Implying that script would take more than 3 hours to make^

[SennenScale]

SalsaDMA wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Shepard isn't set in stone. I think you are missing that.
Having the option to pursue a gay romance doesn't make your Shepard gay if you don't want them to be.
Hell, you have the option to pursue a gay romance IRL but you don't. Just because it's possible that you could if you wanted to doesn't mean you want to.

In real life you have 100% control over how you carry yourself, in appearance, manner and speech.

In the game you don't have such a control. Need I remind you of practically anyone playing a female Shepard NOT interested in having Jacob as LI, yet feeling extremely uncomfortably by talking with him because of how Shepard acted in conversations with him?

My point still stands. Having it be possible doesn't change YOUR Shepard.

Did we ever ask for a Jacob? Hell no. If Bioware does that, that is not our fault and we wouldn't like it either.

It's not what we have asked for.

[Siansonea]

Phaelducan wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

A toggle is stupid, but so is enabling the S/S romances to begin with in the third game of a Trilogy. It's got nothing to do with this issue though. There won't be a toggle, Bioware wouldn't do that.

Truth is, a certain, VERY small minority of the purchasers of ME1 and 2 spammed the forums repeatedly whining that their minority wasn't properly represented.... and it payed off by having the developers give them what they want.

Functionally it's no different than MMO forum spammers whining about their perceived class inbalances until they either get a boost or someone else gets nerfed.

A parable:

A restaurant that previously only served beef and chicken is now also serving tofu. For most customers, it's no big deal, they'll just keep ordering beef or chicken, in fact the restaurant is also offering some wonderful new beef and chicken dishes. Others might order beef and chicken most of the time, but also order a new tofu dish now and then, just for variety. But for others, the very idea that somebody could be ordering tofu in their restaurant when it wasn't on the menu from the beginning, well, that's just an outrage! They've been coming here for years, and never had to see tofu on the menu! If this restaurant wants to continue having their business, then they are going to have to have tofu-free menus, and rooms where people who want tofu can be seated away from everyone else, so no one else has to see them having their tofu. Or better yet, NO TOFU!! Those tofu people can make that stuff in the privacy of their own homes if they want, but don't go flaunting it in the rest of our faces. The very idea that somebody could be eating tofu...ewwwwwww. 

Really, that's what this all sounds like to me.

I'll see your parable, and raise you the same parable which actually applies.

Say I go to "Jack's House of Dead Cow + Sauce." They serve dead cow... with some sauce. Say I've gone there for 3 years because sometimes... I like the idea of a carnivorous dining experience, where I know I won't hear some Vegan next to me complaining that they don't have any Soy or Seytan or w/e the heck they want for a meat substitute.

Now... "Jack's House of Dead Cow + Sauce" decides that because a small group of Vegans has picketted outside their restaurant for long enough to be irritating enough to the management that they are going to add tofu and soy options.

That's their right, it's their restaurant. However, can they really be surprised if some of their already established client base thinks it's a stupid idea to cave?

Would I stop eating there? No, I like the food. Will I still enjoy it when I'm sitting there face deep in greasy BBQ ribs and some yahoo at the next table loudly proclaims "I'm glad they finally saw the sense in putting this tofu burger on the menu!"?

Nope, not as much.

Except, you know, in this case there won't be anyone actually having tofu while you're eating your ribs. You'll be in your own little dining room/world. Now, if the ME3 game had a moment where a character named Siansonea shows up and says to Phaelducan Shepard  "Suck it Shepard, same-sex content for the win!", then your parallel would hold up. And naturally, this Siansonea character would be a beautiful asari with awesome cleavage, but that's neither here nor there. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 18 mai 2011 - 05:57 .

[SalsaDMA]

MACharlie1 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Shepard isn't set in stone. I think you are missing that.

Having the option to pursue a gay romance doesn't make your Shepard gay if you don't want them to be.

Hell, you have the option to pursue a gay romance IRL but you don't. Just because it's possible that you could if you wanted to doesn't mean you want to.

In real life you have 100% control over how you carry yourself, in appearance, manner and speech.

In the game you don't have such a control. Need I remind you of practically anyone playing a female Shepard NOT interested in having Jacob as LI, yet feeling extremely uncomfortably by talking with him because of how Shepard acted in conversations with him?

Not all gay men carry themselves as some pixie. I would say most of them behave as you would expect a man to behave. 

And not all women behave like a **** when approaching a man for a friendly conversation. Yet this was how Female Shepard approached Jacob irrespective of the desire of the actual player.

[Centauri2002]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Nice try, but doesn't fly.

First of all, the only assumption I made was that you specifically said that people not buying the game because it contained stuff they didn't like were 'unreasonable'. I refuted your claim and showed that it was in fact reasonable. Therefore, you, by calling them unreasonable is the very definition of being unreasonable.

Second, yes it does affect them. I need only point at Jacob and Female Shepards for a case in point. If people want their Shepard to be this 'manly man' that no gay would ever dream of on hitting, they suddenly can't do that anymore, when the game pops homosexual advances into their screen.

And I told you I was appaled by a small vocal minority getting catered to the at the expense of the general customer group. That has nothing to do with what you claimed I was appalled by.

I'm not sure what I'm meant to be "trying" for. But okay.

Then you assumed wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you'll not buy something. But to come in here and throw around hateful words and then demand things be changed or you won't buy a product is a tantrum, in my opinion. I haven't seen any example of the former but a few of the latter. Hence my opinion.

I don't see BioWare making that mistake again. Not only because there is so much complaint about same sex romances in the first place but because there was a lot of complaint about the FemShep/Jacob dialogue. You're assuming that will happen and we don't have the details on it. We're asking that there be no occurrences of that in ME3. You can feel free to ask for that right along with us.

I fail to see how the general customer group is going to feel any negative impact because of this inclusiveness. That is, if ninjamancing is not present in ME3, which we all hope it won't be.

[Phaelducan]

Wittand25 wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...
I'll see your parable, and raise you the same parable which actually applies.

Say I go to "Jack's House of Dead Cow + Sauce." They serve dead cow... with some sauce. Say I've gone there for 3 years because sometimes... I like the idea of a carnivorous dining experience, where I know I won't hear some Vegan next to me complaining that they don't have any Soy or Seytan or w/e the heck they want for a meat substitute.

Now... "Jack's House of Dead Cow + Sauce" decides that because a small group of Vegans has picketted outside their restaurant for long enough to be irritating enough to the management that they are going to add tofu and soy options.

That's their right, it's their restaurant. However, can they really be surprised if some of their already established client base thinks it's a stupid idea to cave?

Would I stop eating there? No, I like the food. Will I still enjoy it when I'm sitting there face deep in greasy BBQ ribs and some yahoo at the next table loudly proclaims "I'm glad they finally saw the sense in putting this tofu burger on the menu!"?

Nope, not as much.

Sorry that does not apply at all. since everyone has their own game and does not get information on other player´s games. So your straight Shepard, who by the way can actually make clear that he is straight for the first time by saying no to the male LI, will not affected by my gay one who romances a male LI.
You are upset about something that you will only see if you want it to see. Pick the "No thanks, I am straight" response and your Shepard will remain straight.

I'm not upset that he can be gay, I'm irritated that he wasn't able to be gay for two games (which was not an oversight, it was a dev decision), and now he is because if incessant whining.

As to remaining straight, I've played a gay protagonist in Dragon Age 1 and 2, as well as in Fallout: NV. The difference is that they were gay since the origin of the character. They started that way, they didn't just all of a sudden have a switch thrown (a toggle, if you will?) and have it be an option.

That's why it's so stupid, Shep was one way, now he/she's another, and the ONLY reason they  are the new way is because of the complaining of a vocal minority. 

The whole "my shep was always gay" argument is ludicrous. Shep wasn't gay in 1 and 2, and only delusional thinking indicates otherwise. No more logical than Mario being gay.

[MACharlie1]

SalsaDMA wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Shepard isn't set in stone. I think you are missing that.

Having the option to pursue a gay romance doesn't make your Shepard gay if you don't want them to be.

Hell, you have the option to pursue a gay romance IRL but you don't. Just because it's possible that you could if you wanted to doesn't mean you want to.

In real life you have 100% control over how you carry yourself, in appearance, manner and speech.

In the game you don't have such a control. Need I remind you of practically anyone playing a female Shepard NOT interested in having Jacob as LI, yet feeling extremely uncomfortably by talking with him because of how Shepard acted in conversations with him?

Not all gay men carry themselves as some pixie. I would say most of them behave as you would expect a man to behave. 

And not all women behave like a **** when approaching a man for a friendly conversation. Yet this was how Female Shepard approached Jacob irrespective of the desire of the actual player.

We all agree THAT was a mistake on Jennifer Hale and whoever was in charge of VOs. Without a doubt. But gay Shepard =/= ascot wearing pixie. And I think no matter what, the devs would not ever change Shepard into that. Why can't he just be the same badass we love and like guys? Ever see Mark Meers voice over for when he says "Sorry, I'm only into men"? Carries that out like he would any other line. No raised voice. Just plain Mark Meer. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 18 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[SalsaDMA]

Nyoka wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

If people want their Shepard to be this 'manly man' that no gay would ever dream of on hitting, they suddenly can't do that anymore, when the game pops homosexual advances into their screen.

Casey Hudson's tweet was:
"Happy to confirm #ME3 supports wider options for love interests incl. same-sex for m&f chars, reactive to how you interact w/them in-game."

So the game won't pop anything. You will start the romance, and they will react to your advances.

And showcasing of scripts affecting enviroments were described as 'the player will feel anything can happen at anytime' which is the very opposite of scripted events...

Colour me un-impressed

[horizon011]

Why is this even a topic ? what crazy idea sparked this into bioware ? the 1% gay increase in sales alongwith probably 10% drop in sales from people with strong beliefs against it ?? is this just some market ploy to spark group conversations on the interwebs and help promote the title.. "Even negative promotion is still Promotion"..

How did this even come up ? im being serious ? theres no gain for bioware by doing this why is it even going to be there in the first place ? theres probably a larger racist community out there than gays who would prefer "white aliens/humans" but they dont do that ?. Theres probably alot of muslims out there who would want alot of things changed but they dont do that ? Why are the gays being catered to at all ? And what seperates them from other bigger communities who would want differently ?..

Not being a troll so please just someone inform me on how this is please ? help me understand what there thinking?!

[Sphynx118]

horizon011 wrote...

Why is this even a topic ? what crazy idea sparked this into bioware ? the 1% gay increase in sales alongwith probably 10% drop in sales from people with strong beliefs against it ?? is this just some market ploy to spark group conversations on the interwebs and help promote the title.. "Even negative promotion is still Promotion"..

How did this even come up ? im being serious ? theres no gain for bioware by doing this why is it even going to be there in the first place ? theres probably a larger racist community out there than gays who would prefer "white aliens/humans" but they dont do that ?. Theres probably alot of muslims out there who would want alot of things changed but they dont do that ? Why are the gays being catered to at all ? And what seperates them from other bigger communities who would want differently ?..

Not being a troll so please just someone inform me on how this is please ? help me understand what there thinking?!

Its the "cool" thing to do right now. Scream that you are Ok with gay and people will think you are the ultimate hipster. Nothing wrong with being gay tho. 

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

I fail to see how the general customer group is going to feel any negative impact because of this inclusiveness. That is, if ninjamancing is not present in ME3, which we all hope it won't be.

Including stuff means exluding other stuff. Resources (both time and money) aren't limitless, after all. Especially at this point in time of the games development.

Token guy getting included while previous fan-favourites get booted to a cameo role = people getting less game because of it.

Previous fan favourites getting re-written to cater to the vocalists = people liking the characters as they were getting disregarded because of it.

doesn't matter how you play it out. Including it means you are excluding something or someone else, and that means it negatively affects other customers.

[bald man in a boat]

Phaelducan wrote...

Clearly I have stated that I will "deal with it" as I will play ME3.

If you've truly dealt with it you wouldn't be in here.

However, to your narrow-minded over generalization... allow me to retort.

Uh i'm not being narrow minded considering i'm Straight and I support this option for the people who want it. You also mention "your complaining" down below. I've never complained nor even petitioned for s/s romance. Nice work with the over generalization.

You can RP anything you want. You can be gay Mario if you think that's how he rolls. What you can't do is say "Shep always was gay, I just couldn't actually be gay within the parameters of the programming" (well you can say it, clearly you are saying that, but that's childish).

Congrats on calling a demographic of players childish.

If shep was gay, there would have been gay options. It was left out... *gasp*... because Shep wasn't gay. Two games where Shep was straight. Now in the third, it's been enabled to appease your complaining. RP has nothing to do with it, again, you can RP Shep as a necrophage if you want, but that doesn't make it so.

This statement just gets a facepalm. Shep didn't have gay options before but does now. Therefore, Shep could've always been gay but just lacked potential partners and it has everything to do with RP.

[horizon011]

how is this cool ?? most people i know hate gays and avoid anything gay

[jlb524]

horizon011 wrote...

Why is this even a topic ? what crazy idea sparked this into bioware ? the 1% gay increase in sales alongwith probably 10% drop in sales from people with strong beliefs against it ?? is this just some market ploy to spark group conversations on the interwebs and help promote the title.. "Even negative promotion is still Promotion"..

How did this even come up ? im being serious ? theres no gain for bioware by doing this why is it even going to be there in the first place ? theres probably a larger racist community out there than gays who would prefer "white aliens/humans" but they dont do that ?. Theres probably alot of muslims out there who would want alot of things changed but they dont do that ? Why are the gays being catered to at all ? And what seperates them from other bigger communities who would want differently ?..

Not being a troll so please just someone inform me on how this is please ? help me understand what there thinking?!

Well, you're assuming there will be a '10% drop in sales' but apparently they are not worried about it.  You are also assuming that the people who play the s/s content are in a very very small minority and are only homosexual people.  Apparently their dev team isn't worried about such things, and they do have more information on this than you do.