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[Phaelducan]

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

[Servo to the bitter end]

hex23 wrote...



Sexually female doesn't mean they have a recognizably human vagina. Why? Because they aren't human. Liara herself says Asari "aren't precisely female".

Actually, the line is "not precisely a woman."

Not exactly the same thing.

[Ryzaki]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Wait, default Shepard doesn't romance Liara.

Yeah default Shepard doesn't romance anyone.

But the guy is saying that what appears in the marketing materials is what is "canon" and in the marketing materials Liara is often shown as being hot and heavy for him, and LotSB kind of implies it too, no matter which way you actually went. I was trying to take that line of reasoning to its utterly irrational conclusion, sorry for the confusion.

So the default Shepard is asexual? Good to know. (edit: this is also jokes.)

Ah okay.

Actually I think its reasonable to assume he is (or he's gay). He has droves of attractive females throwing themselves at him and he's all "no thanks." 

After al since not expressing interest in males works for onenot being bisexual surely it works for not being straight.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2011 - 08:43 .

[Abispa]

So, was anyone angry that Bioware did a "recon" on Garrus? He said himself that he was never into aliens until female Shepard propositioned him.

Even if a character was "never" bi or gay, I don't see why a similar OPTIONAL tact can't be taken with Shepard IF YOU WANT TO. Throughout much of human history males have been hetero-flexible, where men, especially warriors like the Spartans and Japanese samurai, may have been "straight," but still may have sexual and/or intense personal relationships with other men (the history of gay sex among women, like most women's history, it sketchy at best).

EDIT: In short, maybe the characters never considered having a same sex relationship before, but they may be interested in a relationship with SHEPARD.

Modifié par Abispa, 18 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[Polliot]

Siansonea II wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
And we're back around to "asari aren't female, so FemShep ain't gay". Okay, so if asari aren't female, then is MaleShep gay because he's doing it with a creature that isn't female?

Even BioWare is not sure about that one,so how can we be.We should invent new sexual orientation - asarisexuality.

Well, "asarisexual" still means one thing—NOT heterosexual. So the old saw that "Shepard is straight" would have to be put to rest. You can't be a straight male if you're sleeping with somebody who isn't female. 

I thought it was an obvious joke.Well,never mind then...

[Siansonea]

hex23 wrote...

Chouan wrote...

Actually, we do:

"while asari have only one gender, they are not asexual like single-celled life—all asari are sexually female"-Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183

Sexually female doesn't mean they have a recognizably human vagina. Why? Because they aren't human. Liara herself says Asari "aren't precisely female".

And for the record Mordin says Asari possibly use neuro-chemicals to appear attractive to all kinds of people and races to insure their genepool stays diversified. So that's why fem Shep finds Asari attractive. Not lesbianism.

So, Male Shepard is doing it with something that "isn't precisely female", and yet he's somehow still "straight"? You can't have it both ways, sweetheart.

Here's your choices:

Asari Are Female [because the ARE]

MaleShepard and Liara: Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Lesbian sex

Asari Aren't Female [because of some technicality that is dubious at best]

MaleShepard and Liara: Not Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Not Lesbian sex

Can't have it both ways, you have to pick Scylla or Charybdis.

[SennenScale]

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

Yes, that would be correct, and also what the codex says.

Which would mean it was possible for a Femshep to be attracted to a female from the beginning. Therefore, lesbian/bisexuality was the in very first game.

[ipgd]

Asari are female in the same way the New Mexico whiptail is female.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

They aren't "technically female" because you need to have males to have males and females. But if there were males, all the asari we have encountered would fit our current biological understanding of what makes a creature "female." That is to say, the ability to produce eggs and a birth canal.

That's what I understand, anyway.

[Maugrim]

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

Seriously people don't get this?

No matter how the phobes kick and scream non-heterosexuality has been in Mass Effect since the very beginning.  Either the asari are female and Shepard can be a lesbian/bisexual or they are not and a Liara-mancing Male Shepard is in a genderqueer, non-straight relationship.

There is no way around this argument and the pathetic attempts made against it just expose the hypocrisy and double standards.

[Sylvianus]

The Asari have only female appearance, but they are asexual. So yes it it incorrect. If you want to think that they are women, it is your right, but it's still wrong.

The notion of woman / man don't exist, since there are no other gender. We do not know their biology either. As turians.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 mai 2011 - 08:46 .

[PMC65]

No matter who I romance, if they are not a crewmember or a crewmember in a portion of the game .. can we get an occasional vid-mail? After a mission or two have a new one .. just thinking of those that romanced Jacob, Miranda, etc.

Of course, my femshep would have liked to have went to her cabin after a mission (especially on Illium) to find flowers from Liara. But nope, that little blue gal never sent my Shep anything.

A vid-mail instead of some short e-mail would have been nice after Horizon, but we can't move backwards.

[Siansonea]

Polliot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
And we're back around to "asari aren't female, so FemShep ain't gay". Okay, so if asari aren't female, then is MaleShep gay because he's doing it with a creature that isn't female?

Even BioWare is not sure about that one,so how can we be.We should invent new sexual orientation - asarisexuality.

Well, "asarisexual" still means one thing—NOT heterosexual. So the old saw that "Shepard is straight" would have to be put to rest. You can't be a straight male if you're sleeping with somebody who isn't female. 

I thought it was an obvious joke.Well,never mind then...

Oh, I got it. But it gave me an opportunity to illustrate a point that people who strenuously insist that FemShep can't be a lesbian don't seem to get when they try to argue that asari aren't female because of some bogus technicality: that whatever they do to one side of the equation, the also have to do to the other side of the equation. That's pretty basic math, but it kind of gets swept under the rug a LOT in these discussions.

[Abispa]

ipgd wrote...

Asari are female in the same way the New Mexico whiptail is female.

Well, according to the bachelor party scene in ME2, a New Mexico whiptail would still think an Asari is hot.

[.shea.]

SennenScale wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

Yes, that would be correct, and also what the codex says.

Which would mean it was possible for a Femshep to be attracted to a female from the beginning. Therefore, lesbian/bisexuality was the in very first game.

Also, femShep can turn Liara down in ME1 because she isn't attracted to women. Anyway, I find it hilarious that my (female) Shepard who slept with Sha'ira, turned Kaidan and the male LIs in ME2 down, romanced and slept with Liara, flirted with Samara and had a fling with Kelly (you know, a human female) would be straight...

[Maugrim]

PMC65 wrote...

No matter who I romance, if they are not a crewmember or a crewmember in a portion of the game .. can we get an occasional vid-mail? After a mission or two have a new one .. just thinking of those that romanced Jacob, Miranda, etc.

Of course, my femshep would have liked to have went to her cabin after a mission (especially on Illium) to find flowers from Liara. But nope, that little blue gal never sent my Shep anything.

A vid-mail instead of some short e-mail would have been nice after Horizon, but we can't move backwards.

Something little like this would be cool and make all the difference in the world for making the romances seem more real and alive.

[Cainne Chapel]

Sylvianus wrote...

The Asari have only female appearance, but they are asexual. So yes it it incorrect. If you want to think that they are women, it is your right, but it's still wrong.

The notion of woman / man don't exist, since there are no other gender. We do not know their biology either. As turians.

Well as been pointed out Syl from the codex all asari are "Functionally Female".  If they were Asexual that wouldn't have a gender at all and would be closer to singular cell organisms which they are not as is specifically noted... once again by the Codex.

But the point put forth still stands, either their female and therefore there are lesbian/bisexual relationships already IN ME or they're not, and shephard and most other aliens are getting down on some truly freaky stuff....

[Centauri2002]

Sylvianus wrote...

The Asari have only female appearance, but they are asexual. So yes it it incorrect. If you want to think that they are women, it is your right, but it's still wrong.

The notion of woman / man don't exist, since there are no other gender. We do not know their biology either. As turians.

No, they're specifically stated as not being asexual. They are cited as being female in the codex.

You are correct, they are not women. Women are human females. They also have no gender. Their sex is female.

[hex23]

SennenScale wrote...

It's not a retroactive change for characters who did not romance anyone. It is not a retroactive change for Femsheps who romance Liara and/or Kelly

Kelly is the only gray area here, and even then she's considered a joke character would would sleep with anything with a pulse. Using her as an example honestly hurts your cause more than helps it.

Asari as I previously pointed out, and as evidenced by the bachelor party in "ME2", appear attractive to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Also "not romancing anyone" does not mean they are gay. Gay means you find the same sex attractive....not that you don't pursue sex with anyone.

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

They aren't "technically female" because you need to have males to have males and females. But if there were males, all the asari we have encountered would fit our current biological understanding of what makes a creature "female." That is to say, the ability to produce eggs and a birth canal.

That's what I understand, anyway.

Not really. By definition, a female is a life form that produces ova. There are animal species on Earth that do not have males but are certainly female. Asari are sexually female.

What Asari are not is necessarily female gendered. There is a difference.

[PMC65]

Abispa wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Asari are female in the same way the New Mexico whiptail is female.

Well, according to the bachelor party scene in ME2, a New Mexico whiptail would still think an Asari is hot.

[Abispa]

Nyoka wrote...

My Shepard has always been gay. I first played ME1 after a Jade Empire playthrough, in which my Scholar Ling romanced Silk Fox, so I had had that experience before playing ME. In my first ME1 playthrough, the moment I saw Ashley Williams I thought she was going to be my Shepard's LI. Turns out she wasn't. She still had the option to romance Liara, since she seemed to be definitely interested in her, but chose not to for several reasons.

Once in ME2, even though she thought about Ashley occasionally, she found in Kelly someone she was pretty comfortable with, and she figured a little fun wouldn't hurt anyone. So they had a little fun. Not what you would call a romance, nothing serious, strictly fun. It wasn't something a heterosexual Femshep would have particularly enjoyed.

I think it's curious how people claim to know my Shepard better than I do.

Because it's pretty obvious you are playing the game the way it was MEANT TO BE, dammit!

[thatguy212]

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

[Servo to the bitter end]

Sylvianus wrote...

The Asari have only female appearance, but they are asexual. So yes it it incorrect. If you want to think that they are women, it is your right, but it's still wrong.

The notion of woman / man don't exist, since there are no other gender. We do not know their biology either. As turians.

Not really. The codex calls them monogendered - and if you are using gender and sex interchangeably, then that's true. But gender =/= sex. It would be more accurate to call them monosexed. That said, they are biologically female. (And if anyone wants to yammer on about canon - that's one thing that is canon).

They don't have much notion of gender, since gender is a social construct, and their species only has one biological sex.

That said - they still possess every aesthetic quality that would appeal to a person who finds human women attractive.