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[Ryzaki]

thatguy212 wrote...

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

Not really. To be a woman Liara would have to be human.

That's not the case.

She's still female though.

[Siansonea]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

They aren't "technically female" because you need to have males to have males and females. But if there were males, all the asari we have encountered would fit our current biological understanding of what makes a creature "female." That is to say, the ability to produce eggs and a birth canal.

That's what I understand, anyway.

Actually, it is incorrect to say you must have males and females for a creature to be female. Female creatures can exist without males, if they have other ways to fertilize eggs. Any species that reproduces sexually MUST have a female variant, but a male variant is optional. It is correct to say that in order to be female, a creature has to produce egg cells. No other criteria is necessary. Even a birth canal isn't a prerequisite, as a female creature could just as easily implant her egg cell into a male creature, where it is fertilized by his spermatozoa, and carried and birthed within his body. Reproductive sex is not the same as gender, and while the asari are mono-gendered, their reproductive sex is unequivocally female, due to the fact that they are able to make more of themselves. 

[PMC65]

hex23 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

It's not a retroactive change for characters who did not romance anyone. It is not a retroactive change for Femsheps who romance Liara and/or Kelly

Kelly is the only gray area here, and even then she's considered a joke character would would sleep with anything with a pulse. Using her as an example honestly hurts your cause more than helps it.

Asari as I previously pointed out, and as evidenced by the bachelor party in "ME2", appear attractive to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Also "not romancing anyone" does not mean they are gay. Gay means you find the same sex attractive....not that you don't pursue sex with anyone.

But if Shepard will sleep with an alien, there is a good chance that Shepard is pretty open minded ... "No, no, I can't sleep with a human female, that is wrong & I don't find females attractive. Hello Asari!" Really?

[Servo to the bitter end]

hex23 wrote...


Kelly is the only gray area here, and even then she's considered a joke character would would sleep with anything with a pulse. Using her as an example honestly hurts your cause more than helps it.

Kelly might. But would straight Shepard?

[SennenScale]

hex23 wrote...

Kelly is the only gray area here, and even then she's considered a joke character would would sleep with anything with a pulse. Using her as an example honestly hurts your cause more than helps it.

Asari as I previously pointed out, and as evidenced by the bachelor party in "ME2", appear attractive to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Also "not romancing anyone" does not mean they are gay. Gay means you find the same sex attractive....not that you don't pursue sex with anyone.

It doesn't matter what Kelly's motivations or drives are. We are talking about Female Shepard. It's not a grey area. A female Shepard with Kelly is a lesbian or bisexual.


Not romancing anyone shows that Shepard is not required to express one way or the other, and the canon Shepard you were talking about? By default, Shepard romances no one. It is open to interpretation by the player.

[Cainne Chapel]

hex23 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

It's not a retroactive change for characters who did not romance anyone. It is not a retroactive change for Femsheps who romance Liara and/or Kelly

Kelly is the only gray area here, and even then she's considered a joke character would would sleep with anything with a pulse. Using her as an example honestly hurts your cause more than helps it.

Asari as I previously pointed out, and as evidenced by the bachelor party in "ME2", appear attractive to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Also "not romancing anyone" does not mean they are gay. Gay means you find the same sex attractive....not that you don't pursue sex with anyone.

How is kelly a "gray" area? Promiscuity aside?  Would that make shephard a "Gray" area as well as he can sleep with the whole ship if he/she tries?  In that respect you're just "TRYING" to split hairs.

Also you're right, not romancing anyone doesn't mean they are gay, however if the player intoned for that to be the case, there it is. If not, its not there. Simple as that.  They just (male side speaking) did not have the option of being able to go m/m where as female shephard could (Liara not being a female arguments not withstanding, the whole looks/walks/quacks like a duck thing..).

So I'm failing to see the argument here...besides its not like BOOM ME3 starts and your Ashley loving Shephard all of sudden looks at Thane and says "Hey......Nice gills man..."

[Centauri2002]

thatguy212 wrote...

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

As if my Shepard could say no to her anyway~

[thatguy212]

Ryzaki wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

Not really. To be a woman Liara would have to be human.

That's not the case.

She's still female though.

I was making a joke

[Maugrim]

hex23 wrote...

Also "not romancing anyone" does not mean they are gay. Gay means you find the same sex attractive....not that you don't pursue sex with anyone.

Well FU*K since I haven't slept with anyone, much less a women yet I guess I'm not a real lesbian, guess I came out of the closet to my mom for nothing then:blink:.  Don't know what she'll say about this development



The Insane Troll Logic in this thread is giving me a migraine.

[Sylvianus]

centauri2002 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The Asari have only female appearance, but they are asexual. So yes it it incorrect. If you want to think that they are women, it is your right, but it's still wrong.

The notion of woman / man don't exist, since there are no other gender. We do not know their biology either. As turians.

You are correct, they are not women. Women are human females. They also have no gender. Their sex is female.

That's correct.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 mai 2011 - 08:56 .

[Ryzaki]

thatguy212 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

Not really. To be a woman Liara would have to be human.

That's not the case.

She's still female though.

I was making a joke

Sorry my joke dectector has been destroyed by this thread.

[hex23]

Siansonea II wrote...

So, Male Shepard is doing it with something that "isn't precisely female", and yet he's somehow still "straight"? You can't have it both ways, sweetheart.

Here's your choices:

Asari Are Female [because the ARE]

MaleShepard and Liara: Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Lesbian sex

Asari Aren't Female [because of some technicality that is dubious at best]

MaleShepard and Liara: Not Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Not Lesbian sex

Can't have it both ways, you have to pick Scylla or Charybdis.

False. You're trying to apply human sexual orientation to aliens. You're basically saying Shep is gay because he has sex with an Asari, who "isn't precisely female". Well she isn't male either, so what is your point?

And for the 3rd time the game has mentioned that Asari probably use neuro-chemicals to appear attractive to a wide range of species because that's how they pro-create. Males, females, humans, Turians, etc. Fem Shep finding an Asari attractive has nothing to do with a human term like "lesbianism".

[Servo to the bitter end]

hex23 wrote...

False. You're trying to apply human sexual orientation to aliens. You're basically saying Shep is gay because he has sex with an Asari, who "isn't precisely female". Well she isn't male either, so what is your point?

And for the 3rd time the game has mentioned that Asari probably use neuro-chemicals to appear attractive to a wide range of species because that's how they pro-create. Males, females, humans, Turians, etc. Fem Shep finding an Asari attractive has nothing to do with a human term like "lesbianism".

She is female though. It's in the codex.

In any event, that still doesn't explain why she would take up with Kelly.

Modifié par TommyServo, 18 mai 2011 - 08:58 .

[SennenScale]

hex23 wrote...


False. You're trying to apply human sexual orientation to aliens. You're basically saying Shep is gay because he has sex with an Asari, who "isn't precisely female". Well she isn't male either, so what is your point?

That Shepard has an option to be something other than straight from the get go is Asari are not female. Might not be gay, but it's not straight either.

[Cainne Chapel]

Hex... I feel you're missing the point Sian was making....but *shrug*

[Siansonea]

hex23 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

So, Male Shepard is doing it with something that "isn't precisely female", and yet he's somehow still "straight"? You can't have it both ways, sweetheart.

Here's your choices:

Asari Are Female [because the ARE]

MaleShepard and Liara: Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Lesbian sex

Asari Aren't Female [because of some technicality that is dubious at best]

MaleShepard and Liara: Not Straight sex
FemShepard and Liara: Not Lesbian sex

Can't have it both ways, you have to pick Scylla or Charybdis.

False. You're trying to apply human sexual orientation to aliens. You're basically saying Shep is gay because he has sex with an Asari, who "isn't precisely female". Well she isn't male either, so what is your point?

And for the 3rd time the game has mentioned that Asari probably use neuro-chemicals to appear attractive to a wide range of species because that's how they pro-create. Males, females, humans, Turians, etc. Fem Shep finding an Asari attractive has nothing to do with a human term like "lesbianism".

I'm not talking about the asari's sexuality, I'm talking about Shepard's. If you are a male human, and you have sex with a person who is not female, you are not heterosexual. Depending on the circumstances, you might not precisely be homosexual either, but you're still Not Straight. It really is that simple, asari voodoo pheremones notwithstanding.

[hex23]

makenzieshepard wrote...


Well FU*K since I haven't slept with anyone, much less a women yet I guess I'm not a real lesbian, guess I came out of the closet to my mom for nothing then:blink:.  Don't know what she'll say about this development



The Insane Troll Logic in this thread is giving me a migraine.

Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game. So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other characters.

[ipgd]

I'm sure if Asari were somehow an all-male race, the same people who emphatically declare female Asari "don't count" as f/f would be falling all over themselves to fight anyone who might claim that wouldn't be gay.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Siansonea II wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

They aren't "technically female" because you need to have males to have males and females. But if there were males, all the asari we have encountered would fit our current biological understanding of what makes a creature "female." That is to say, the ability to produce eggs and a birth canal.

That's what I understand, anyway.

Actually, it is incorrect to say you must have males and females for a creature to be female. Female creatures can exist without males, if they have other ways to fertilize eggs. Any species that reproduces sexually MUST have a female variant, but a male variant is optional. It is correct to say that in order to be female, a creature has to produce egg cells. No other criteria is necessary. Even a birth canal isn't a prerequisite, as a female creature could just as easily implant her egg cell into a male creature, where it is fertilized by his spermatozoa, and carried and birthed within his body. Reproductive sex is not the same as gender, and while the asari are mono-gendered, their reproductive sex is unequivocally female, due to the fact that they are able to make more of themselves. 

Right right. This is what i get for trying to science without coffee.

I also don't have the energy to try to science this further right now. Point is, codex says Asari are all biologically female.

[Russalka]

hex23 wrote...

Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had
sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same
sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In
the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game.
So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and
purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other
characters.

Clearly he is, now that he finally gets options to express it.

Modifié par Russalka, 18 mai 2011 - 09:01 .

[SennenScale]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm not talking about the asari's sexuality, I'm talking about Shepard's. If you are a male human, and you have sex with a person who is not female, you are not heterosexual. Depending on the circumstances, you might not precisely be homosexual either, but you're still Not Straight. It really is that simple, asari voodoo pheremones notwithstanding.

Bolded, because it needs to be.

Exactly what I was expressing. If Liara is not female, male Shepard isn't straight. That doesn't mean he's gay, but he is attracted to something that is not female.

[Centauri2002]

hex23 wrote...

False. You're trying to apply human sexual orientation to aliens. You're basically saying Shep is gay because he has sex with an Asari, who "isn't precisely female". Well she isn't male either, so what is your point?

And for the 3rd time the game has mentioned that Asari probably use neuro-chemicals to appear attractive to a wide range of species because that's how they pro-create. Males, females, humans, Turians, etc. Fem Shep finding an Asari attractive has nothing to do with a human term like "lesbianism".

You're applying alien sexual orientation to a human. Whatever the sexual orientation of the aliens Shepard can sleep with does not effect Shepard's. You have to put yourself in his/her situation to understand really. 

For example, if I came across a Turian or Krogan, for example, I wouldn't find them attractive. Sure, I might like them as individuals but there's nothing to spur sexual attraction for me, personally. However, an asari looks like a human female for the most part, so I'm likely to find them attractive. That's because I'm attracted to human women. 

This asari attraction debate is all hypothetical since we've never been given a proper answer on it. And saying just because Kelly's promiscuous doesn't make FemShep gay is silly. A lesbian can be equally attracted to a chaste woman and a promiscuous woman. A straight woman should not be attracted to either.

[hex23]

Siansonea II wrote...
I'm not talking about the asari's sexuality, I'm talking about Shepard's. If you are a male human, and you have sex with a person who is not female, you are not heterosexual. Depending on the circumstances, you might not precisely be homosexual either, but you're still Not Straight. It really is that simple, asari voodoo pheremones notwithstanding.

No offense but what you're saying has nothing to do with the topic. Shep having sex with aliens has nothing to do with whether or not he's hetero/homosexual. Be it Asari or Turian. "Not straight" =/= gay.....as a matter of fact the term "straight" has no meaning in this context because you're applying a human sexuality term to aliens.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

hex23 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...


Well FU*K since I haven't slept with anyone, much less a women yet I guess I'm not a real lesbian, guess I came out of the closet to my mom for nothing then:blink:.  Don't know what she'll say about this development



The Insane Troll Logic in this thread is giving me a migraine.

Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game. So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other characters.

So you're saying that a girl who likes dudes, but is too shy to hit on them, is gay? Or a girl who likes dudes, but feels that workplace relationships are a bad idea, and doesn't get much chance to meet people outside their workplace, she's gay too? I know a lot of perpetually single people of every orientation. I know some people who never talk about their sexual proclivities to anyone, because they feel that such things are personal. Shepard could be like that.

Maybe Shepard hasn't slept with anyone because he or she is a professional. I don't see how not sleeping with anyone at all, not flirting with anyone at all, and rejecting all flirtation determines your sexuality.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 09:04 .

[PMC65]

centauri2002 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Asari are all female, and not asexual, and as for liara saying that she's not precisely a woman, it was obviously a lie so that female Shepard would sleep with her, damn she's manipulative

As if my Shepard could say no to her anyway~

And she said it as she poured Shepard a glass of wine ... seductive little tease!