6696 réponses à ce sujet

[thatguy212]

Something I think people need to realize are three things, first off there will be same sex romances in ME3, deal with it, secondly there has been no official word about X becoming bisexual so stop complaining about that, if they are said to be bisexual now then you're allowed to complain, and lastly even if they do become bisexual they are still the exact same people expect they might like like shepard if you pursue their romance, they aren't going to change into some stereotypical gay guy who can't fight because he has cobwebs in his hair, and really if the only reason you liked them before is because they were straight (because being bisexual apparently ruined their character) then you really need to grow up, a person's sexuality is not a factor on whether they are great or not

and PS Liara/FemShep is a lesbian romance

Modifié par thatguy212, 18 mai 2011 - 09:05 .

[SennenScale]

hex23 wrote...


You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

So then, the lack of Shepard pursuing a male love interest before would be irrelevant to whether he could be gay or not.

Therefore, adding the option to ME3 isn't contradicting anything.

[Saeran]

hex23 wrote...
Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game. So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other characters.

The point people are trying to make is, when did my Shepard bang women? Because mine's rejected every single one who's made a pass at him. Since forever. My Shepard is gay because I decided he is gay.

And you seem to be trying to contradict the fact that same-sex content already exists in the game due to female Shepard. The Asari are stated to be in the codex, an "all-female" race. You can claim they mind control you however much you want, but that makes Fem!Shep attracted to a female. And my Shepard apparently didn't fall for the "Asari Trap".

[ipgd]

hex23 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...


Well FU*K since I haven't slept with anyone, much less a women yet I guess I'm not a real lesbian, guess I came out of the closet to my mom for nothing then:blink:.  Don't know what she'll say about this development



The Insane Troll Logic in this thread is giving me a migraine.

Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game. So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other characters.

So if you're a gay man living in a hick town in Alabama where you have no chance of getting any, you're actually straight.

Shepard not having the option to pursue an m/m romance in ME1 or 2 says nothing about Shepard's sexuality. It just means none of the male romance options were gay or bisexual. He could easily be crying himself to sleep at night with his hand and a tub of astroglide.

[Siansonea]

hex23 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I'm not talking about the asari's sexuality, I'm talking about Shepard's. If you are a male human, and you have sex with a person who is not female, you are not heterosexual. Depending on the circumstances, you might not precisely be homosexual either, but you're still Not Straight. It really is that simple, asari voodoo pheremones notwithstanding.

No offense but what you're saying has nothing to do with the topic. Shep having sex with aliens has nothing to do with whether or not he's hetero/homosexual. Be it Asari or Turian. "Not straight" =/= gay.....as a matter of fact the term "straight" has no meaning in this context because you're applying a human sexuality term to aliens.

You're right, Not Straight ≠ Gay.

But by the same token, Not Straight ≠ STRAIGHT.

So the fallacy that Shepard is "canonically straight" is fallacious on a number of counts, not the least of which is, you know, that there IS no canon.

And all this lawyering about asari sex/gender doesn't take away from the FemShep/Kelly relationship. You can dismiss it as a joke if you want, but there's Miss Shepard in her quarters, watching another human female grind like an Afterlife stripper, with some lap-sitting and bed-cuddling to boot. 

[hex23]

centauri2002 wrote...

You're applying alien sexual orientation to a human. Whatever the sexual orientation of the aliens Shepard can sleep with does not effect Shepard's. You have to put yourself in his/her situation to understand really. 

For example, if I came across a Turian or Krogan, for example, I wouldn't find them attractive. Sure, I might like them as individuals but there's nothing to spur sexual attraction for me, personally. However, an asari looks like a human female for the most part, so I'm likely to find them attractive. That's because I'm attracted to human women. 

This asari attraction debate is all hypothetical since we've never been given a proper answer on it. And saying just because Kelly's promiscuous doesn't make FemShep gay is silly. A lesbian can be equally attracted to a chaste woman and a promiscuous woman. A straight woman should not be attracted to either.

Again, re-watch the bachelor party scene in "ME2". Your character doesn't find them attractive because they look like a human female. That's made obvious by that scene, considering everyone at the table thought the Asari stripper was hot, and commented on how similar she was to their specific race, despite the fact that she couldn't possibly be.

And that's not what I'm saying about Kelly. I'm saying Kelly would literally sleep with anything, animal/vegetable/mineral in "ME2" so that's not exactly a good example of lesbianism. If I was a homosexual/bi I'd be offended that that's the best example of a bi/lesbian relationship prior to "ME3".

[Siansonea]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Isn't it incorrect to say that Asari aren't female? I thought it was confirmed that they are traditional female mammalian biologically. Not to be course or anything, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Liara is female.... as are all Asari?

They aren't "technically female" because you need to have males to have males and females. But if there were males, all the asari we have encountered would fit our current biological understanding of what makes a creature "female." That is to say, the ability to produce eggs and a birth canal.

That's what I understand, anyway.

Actually, it is incorrect to say you must have males and females for a creature to be female. Female creatures can exist without males, if they have other ways to fertilize eggs. Any species that reproduces sexually MUST have a female variant, but a male variant is optional. It is correct to say that in order to be female, a creature has to produce egg cells. No other criteria is necessary. Even a birth canal isn't a prerequisite, as a female creature could just as easily implant her egg cell into a male creature, where it is fertilized by his spermatozoa, and carried and birthed within his body. Reproductive sex is not the same as gender, and while the asari are mono-gendered, their reproductive sex is unequivocally female, due to the fact that they are able to make more of themselves. 

Right right. This is what i get for trying to science without coffee.

I also don't have the energy to try to science this further right now. Point is, codex says Asari are all biologically female.

No harm done, I know your heart's in the right place. 

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Man, are there still people claiming it's not gay if it's an elf Asari? That's just sad. Though I would point out the corollary to that argument is that, if it's not gay 'cause it's an alien, having Garrus/Thane/Tali available to s/s Sheps shouldn't be bothersome because, hey! Alien!

P.S. Since I'm very late coming back to this (and missed the FFtL thread before it got Achievement Unlocked locked), congrats all agitators. It's well past time the romance double standard got erased from this franchise. W00t!:happy:

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 18 mai 2011 - 09:11 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

hex23 wrote...


And that's not what I'm saying about Kelly. I'm saying Kelly would literally sleep with anything, animal/vegetable/mineral in "ME2" so that's not exactly a good example of lesbianism. If I was a homosexual/bi I'd be offended that that's the best example of a bi/lesbian relationship prior to "ME3".

But in this context we're not talking about Kelly.

We're talking about Shepard. Why would straight Shepard pursue Kelly?

[ipgd]

hex23 wrote...

And that's not what I'm saying about Kelly. I'm saying Kelly would literally sleep with anything, animal/vegetable/mineral in "ME2" so that's not exactly a good example of lesbianism. If I was a homosexual/bi I'd be offended that that's the best example of a bi/lesbian relationship prior to "ME3".

How is it not a "good example" of lesbianism? Promiscuous women are still women, you know. Even if you feel some compulsion to slut shame Kelly out of personhood, it's certainly still gay for Shepard.

[Siansonea]

hex23 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

You're applying alien sexual orientation to a human. Whatever the sexual orientation of the aliens Shepard can sleep with does not effect Shepard's. You have to put yourself in his/her situation to understand really. 

For example, if I came across a Turian or Krogan, for example, I wouldn't find them attractive. Sure, I might like them as individuals but there's nothing to spur sexual attraction for me, personally. However, an asari looks like a human female for the most part, so I'm likely to find them attractive. That's because I'm attracted to human women. 

This asari attraction debate is all hypothetical since we've never been given a proper answer on it. And saying just because Kelly's promiscuous doesn't make FemShep gay is silly. A lesbian can be equally attracted to a chaste woman and a promiscuous woman. A straight woman should not be attracted to either.

Again, re-watch the bachelor party scene in "ME2". Your character doesn't find them attractive because they look like a human female. That's made obvious by that scene, considering everyone at the table thought the Asari stripper was hot, and commented on how similar she was to their specific race, despite the fact that she couldn't possibly be.

And that's not what I'm saying about Kelly. I'm saying Kelly would literally sleep with anything, animal/vegetable/mineral in "ME2" so that's not exactly a good example of lesbianism. If I was a homosexual/bi I'd be offended that that's the best example of a bi/lesbian relationship prior to "ME3".

Kelly's sexuality isn't the point, it's Female SHEPARD'S. Or does Kelly also have special pheremones that blind people to her gender?

[Phaelducan]

ipgd wrote...

I'm sure if Asari were somehow an all-male race, the same people who emphatically declare female Asari "don't count" as f/f would be falling all over themselves to fight anyone who might claim that wouldn't be gay.

Interestingly enough, I don't think you are correct. I think the concept of a Male Asari bonding with a Male Shepard, in the context of the Mass Effect universe, would be just as easy to justify as not being gay. I could be totally incorrect, but I don't have a sense that a male asari would be offensive in the same way a human/human s/s romance would be (will be) to some people.

For what it's worth, I also consider Liara to be a "woman" and for fem-shep to bond with her a strong indication of fem-shep being a lesbian.

[Captain_Obvious]

I'm happy with this development, or at least a couple of my Shepards will be. I knew you could do it, Bioware. Now how about our uber-collector's edition of 1-3? With all of the "redacted" content, if you please.

[Centauri2002]

hex23 wrote...

Again, re-watch the bachelor party scene in "ME2". Your character doesn't find them attractive because they look like a human female. That's made obvious by that scene, considering everyone at the table thought the Asari stripper was hot, and commented on how similar she was to their specific race, despite the fact that she couldn't possibly be.

And that's not what I'm saying about Kelly. I'm saying Kelly would literally sleep with anything, animal/vegetable/mineral in "ME2" so that's not exactly a good example of lesbianism. If I was a homosexual/bi I'd be offended that that's the best example of a bi/lesbian relationship prior to "ME3".

That's fine but that doesn't mean it overrides inherent sexual preference. If they're seeing the asari in their own way, then they're viewing the asari as what they find sexually appealing. My FemShep still views Liara as a female so she must find females appealing. Another FemShep can turn Liara down and say she's not interested in females so it can't all be about pheromones.

This isn't about the portrayal of lesbians and bisexuals in media. This isn't even about Kelly's character. This is about Shepard's perceived sexuality. Since she can flirt, both verbally and physically, with Kelly then she is either bisexual or lesbian if she chooses to do so.

Modifié par centauri2002, 18 mai 2011 - 09:16 .

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try and keep this discussion game-related, please.

[Abispa]

What's your persuasion if you romance LEGION?

[SennenScale]

Abispa wrote...

What's your persuasion if you romance LEGION?

Robosexual with a dash of selfcest, if you consider that he made your armor a part of him?

[Phaelducan]

ipgd wrote...

hex23 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...


Well FU*K since I haven't slept with anyone, much less a women yet I guess I'm not a real lesbian, guess I came out of the closet to my mom for nothing then:blink:.  Don't know what she'll say about this development



The Insane Troll Logic in this thread is giving me a migraine.

Is a male virgin gay because he hasn't had sex with a woman? Hell no.

You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

In the "ME" series the option wasn't even open to you, until the 3rd game. So you could pretend your Shep was gay, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't, either by his actions or interaction with other characters.

So if you're a gay man living in a hick town in Alabama where you have no chance of getting any, you're actually straight.

Shepard not having the option to pursue an m/m romance in ME1 or 2 says nothing about Shepard's sexuality. It just means none of the male romance options were gay or bisexual. He could easily be crying himself to sleep at night with his hand and a tub of astroglide.

That's meta-gaming. Given Bioware's proclivity for programming homosexuality into their recent games (lesbian shep in ME1 included) one can only logically assume that male shep was not meant to be gay at the time of ME1 or ME2. I am really trying to be open minded to the debate in general, but this is a stumbling block that I think will alienate those who think along the lines which I do (which is that gay-m/m shep in ME3 is foolish and a mistake).

He was not always gay, or he would have been able to pursue Kaidan. Stop reading more into the scenario that was there. It's simple programming. 

[hex23]

TommyServo wrote...

But in this context we're not talking about Kelly.

We're talking about Shepard. Why would straight Shepard pursue Kelly?

They did what a lot of college girls do every week end. And most of them don't consider themselves gay or bi. Hell, you could go to a night club and probably see women doing more sexually explicit stuff than the Kelly/fem Shep dance scene any given day of the week.

Like it or not society has a double standard for men and women in these types of situations. If two male characters....let's say male Shep and Jacob....did what fem Shep and Kelly did I would have zero complaints because the standard would've been set already. But what happened in "ME2"....again, females do far more than this and don't consider it gay. Neither does society. I'm not saying it's right but it is what it is.

[Jebel Krong]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's try and keep this discussion game-related, please.

aha a lurking dev!  so what's your take on the... ah, controversy this has created? will the effort spent on this reduce the other relationships or other areas of the game (regarding limited development time for any game)?

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 18 mai 2011 - 09:20 .

[DJSurface]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I'm happy with this development, or at least a couple of my Shepards will be. I knew you could do it, Bioware. Now how about our uber-collector's edition of 1-3? With all of the "redacted" content, if you please.

This...  I'd buy that for $$$ !!!

[PMC65]

SennenScale wrote...

hex23 wrote...


You're gay because you find the same sex attractive. Whether or not you acted on it yet is irrelevant.

So then, the lack of Shepard pursuing a male love interest before would be irrelevant to whether he could be gay or not.

Therefore, adding the option to ME3 isn't contradicting anything.

I saw what you just did there .... BRILLIANT!

[ipgd]

Phaelducan wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I'm sure if Asari were somehow an all-male race, the same people who emphatically declare female Asari "don't count" as f/f would be falling all over themselves to fight anyone who might claim that wouldn't be gay.

Interestingly enough, I don't think you are correct. I think the concept of a Male Asari bonding with a Male Shepard, in the context of the Mass Effect universe, would be just as easy to justify as not being gay. I could be totally incorrect, but I don't have a sense that a male asari would be offensive in the same way a human/human s/s romance would be (will be) to some people.

For what it's worth, I also consider Liara to be a "woman" and for fem-shep to bond with her a strong indication of fem-shep being a lesbian.

It would be just as easy to justify (read: not very much), but there would be a much greater shortage of people who want to believe it. Because, really, the only reason anyone actually believes in this is because people are searching for an after-the-fact justification to cover up the underlying issue.

[hex23]

ipgd wrote...

So if you're a gay man living in a hick town in Alabama where you have no chance of getting any, you're actually straight.

You obviously missed the part where I said "finding the same sex attractive".