6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Erani]

hex23 wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Nitpicking because you can, hm?

They were designed to be discount lesbians. Shepard's attraction and viewpoint is the only thing that matters, she sees them as a woman, ergo it is a lesbian relationship.

False. As I previously stated Mordin points out that Asari are attractively to virtually everyone because they most likely release neuro-chemicals making them desirable to a wide variety of races, sexes, and species. This is further illustrated in the "bachelor party scene" in "ME2", where different species comment on how similar the Asari stripper is to their specific race, even though that's obviously impossible.

So yeah, not lesbianism. Neuro-chemicals.

Yes, the neuro-chemicals make them desirable females. 
They are still female (according to codex).

Remember that girl Nef in Samara's loyalty quest? When you listen to her journal, in one of the entries, she's like "omg am I a freak, Morinth is a girl and not human..." This shows that:
1) Same-sex relationships appear to be not very common, or at least somewhat eccentric, or not totally accepted.
2) Humans see asari as females, enough for Nef to see Morinth as a "girl" and therefore their relationship not very "normal"

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

hex23 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

How is finding men attractive impossible in the first two games? There is nothing that suggests my Shepard can't blissfully ignore Miranda's shapely ass, lock himself in his cabin and beat off to the thought of Kaidan. Again, having sex is not a prerequisite of attraction. Reciprocation is not a prerequisite of attraction.

The problem is you're creating scenarios in your mind where your Shep was gay, but these don't exist in 1 or 2. That's all I'm saying. Your Shep could've been gay in your mind but Bioware didn't give you the option, and there was no indication that Shep was into that sort of thing, so it comes off as really heavy handed and honestly kinda lame.

So what? I don't care that they didn't "intend" for my Shepard to be gay. They didn't do anything to prevent it, even if they didn't help it along. So I have a gay Shepard.

I agree with hex23. And Siansonea,try with better answers than I don't care,it just pisses people off and further makes them sure they are right. You are actually hurting your own case.

You're reading that "I don't care" out of context, I think.  It wasn't directed at Hex, it was directed at Bioware.

That said, what she says is accurate - there's nothing in ME1 or 2 that suggests Shepard can't be gay. He just doesn't have anyone to return the sentiment.

[Polliot]

ReconTeam wrote...

jakal66 wrote...
My way or the highway is just NOT the way to go people.

Oh but my or the highway is ALWAYS the way to go when you can play the "homophobe" card and somehow link it with race. The hypocrisy astounds me, though I suppose it shouldn't. People always cloak their intentions.

Apparently being tolerant doesn't count these days, you have to be "accepting" in the sense that you let them get whatever they want.

It isn't "optional" when characters are being rewritten if that indeed occurs. (I don't consider "oh, they happened to just be bisexual the whole time" to be a real argument.) If this James Vega fellow is merely token gay guy fan service, that doesn't seem optional either. I for one would rather see "boring old Jacob" have more personality.

Glad to see there are still reasonable people here.

[Abispa]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

hex23 wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Nitpicking because you can, hm?

They were designed to be discount lesbians. Shepard's attraction and viewpoint is the only thing that matters, she sees them as a woman, ergo it is a lesbian relationship.

False. As I previously stated Mordin points out that Asari are attractively to virtually everyone because they most likely release neuro-chemicals making them desirable to a wide variety of races, sexes, and species. This is further illustrated in the "bachelor party scene" in "ME2", where different species comment on how similar the Asari stripper is to their specific race, even though that's obviously impossible.

So yeah, not lesbianism. Neuro-chemicals.

Except that the actual dialogue from the bachelor party has each guy remarking on the physical attribute of the Asari they find most similar to their own species. Hence the Turian remarking on the head fringe, and the Salarian commenting on the (I think) skin colouring. Guess which physical bit of the Asari is most attractive to humans? (Psst. My own bet is that from the neck down they look like a curvy human lady with nice boobs.)

While the in-game explanation might include neuro-chemicals that attract, I will point out that there are plenty of people who resist the apparently alluring call of the Asari; at a guess, I'd postulate that the chemicals can't bridge the whole gap. Something else there has to appeal.

ME2 fandom has proved that some people prefer their alien lover to have her head in a bucket.

[hex23]

TommyServo wrote...

It still comes back to Kelly, though.

I already addressed Kelly. Her character came off as more of a fan service to horny males, than some kind of serious pro-gay/lesbian statement. Also, as I said before, females who consider themselves straight sometimes do far more than fem Shep/Kelly so their little interaction isn't an indication that fem Shep was a lesbian, or even bi.

Modifié par hex23, 18 mai 2011 - 10:09 .

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Abispa wrote...

ME2 fandom has proved that some people prefer their alien lover to have her head in a bucket.

Well, who are any of us to stand in the way of HumanMale/Wide-hippedChickenLegBucketHeadAlien loving?

[hex23]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Except that the actual dialogue from the bachelor party has each guy remarking on the physical attribute of the Asari they find most similar to their own species. Hence the Turian remarking on the head fringe, and the Salarian commenting on the (I think) skin colouring. Guess which physical bit of the Asari is most attractive to humans? (Psst. My own bet is that from the neck down they look like a curvy human lady with nice boobs.)

While the in-game explanation might include neuro-chemicals that attract, I will point out that there are plenty of people who resist the apparently alluring call of the Asari; at a guess, I'd postulate that the chemicals can't bridge the whole gap. Something else there has to appeal.

Boobs. It's the boobs.

Modifié par hex23, 18 mai 2011 - 10:12 .

[Abispa]

Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Why is Shepard having a relationship with someone of the same gender so controversial? I mean, depending how you played ME2, Shepard has already made passionate love with a plucked chicken?

LOL or a dinosaur.

No, I'm pretty sure it was a plucked chicken.

That's mean to Garrus. I think Tali is more on the chicken side. Garrus looks like BA Dino.

[ipgd]

hex23 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

It still comes back to Kelly, though.

I already addressed Kelly. Her character came off as more of a fan service to horny males, than some kind of serious pro-gay/lesbian statement. Also, as I said before, females who consider themselves straight sometimes do far more than fem Shep/Kelly so their little interaction isn't an indication that fem Shep was a lesbian, or even bi.

I have no idea what "serious pro-gay/lesbian statements" have to do with the existence of a lesbian relationship. Even if Kelly is a ****ty lesbian romance option, she's still a lesbian romance option.

It is possible to roleplay a straight-identified WSW Shepard, but it is also possible to roleplay Shepard's interest in Kelly as "genuinely" lesbian. You're kind of reaching to absurd levels of denial with this whole thing.

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.

Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.

[Abispa]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

Abispa wrote...

ME2 fandom has proved that some people prefer their alien lover to have her head in a bucket.

Well, who are any of us to stand in the way of HumanMale/Wide-hippedChickenLegBucketHeadAlien loving?

That's my Tali, the plucked chicken. Hot, sexy plucked chicken. Those breasts, those legs... Oh, what a cloaca...

[ReveurIngenu]

I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it.  Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game?  Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you?  Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?

Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on.  It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included.  I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?

It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right.  So why so much effort in a pointless debate?  One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?

[Centauri2002]

hex23 wrote...

I already addressed Kelly. Her character came off as more of a fan service to horny males, than some kind of serious pro-gay/lesbian statement. Also, as I said before, females who consider themselves straight sometimes do far more than fem Shep/Kelly so their little interaction isn't an indication that fem Shep was a lesbian, or even bi.

What do you require as proof? Shepard is whatever sexuality the player decides he/she is. Why try to force your view of Shepard on other players? No one is doing that with you. Do you require to see FemShep tonguing all of the female crew in order to be convinced? 

I don't see why it's so unreasonable to conclude a FemShep taking those options with Liara and Kelly could be considered bisexual or gay.

Clearly, you're convinced of your own view and won't be swayed so I think it's best we move onto another topic now. We're merely going in circles.

[Servo to the bitter end]

hex23 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

It still comes back to Kelly, though.

I already addressed Kelly. Her character came off as more of a fan service to horny males, than some kind of serious pro-gay/lesbian statement. Also, as I said before, females who consider themselves straight sometimes do far more than fem Shep/Kelly so their little interaction isn't an indication that fem Shep was a lesbian, or even bi.

EDIT: Nevermind. Centauri was a lot more eloquent than me.

Modifié par TommyServo, 18 mai 2011 - 10:16 .

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.

Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.

Yet you can still flush the toilet! WHO THE HELL IS USING IT!? Boo, the space hamster?

[mopotter]

Good. Out of my many Female Shepards and a couple of male Shepards, I will have one each who will find this something to look forward to. I'm glad to see a couple of new characters being brought in for them.

[Erani]

Ryzaki wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.

Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.

Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.

[Darth Death]

After 132 pages later, this debate did a complete 360. In other words we're back where we started lol. How are people able to continue battling is beyond me, although I'm having a good time reading what some have posted. I wonder what BioWare thinks of this thread.

[rapscallioness]

Oh, but BTW, just make the options for entering a same sex relationship a bit more obvious..maybe it's me, but I remember talking to Liara about..something..and she wanted to dissect me, etc. Honestly, I didn't think anything of it, lol. Not until I was back talking to my Boo, Kaidan, and he was like --well, I don't wanna get in the middle of your thing w/Liara. What? What thing? The thing the whole ship was gossiping about. What? What thing? Lol. No, Kaidan, Baby, it's not like that.

Little did I know he was gonna dump me in ME2. Then send some lame email...."I just don't know." Bah. (I still kept his pic up, tho. I'm a romantic...

[Siansonea]

hex23 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

So what? I don't care that they didn't "intend" for my Shepard to be gay. They didn't do anything to prevent it, even if they didn't help it along. So I have a gay Shepard.

Uh....they programmed 2 full games where it obviously wasn't possible, or even hinted at. I'd say that's preventing it.

Well, it wasn't possible to lust after a wide-hipped chicken in a wetsuit in the first game, but lo and behold, in the second game Shep can get freaky with a quarian—as implausible as that is. So hey, I can still maintain that my celibate Shepard is waiting for the right man. The game isn't telling me I can't, any more than ME1 told the Talimancers that Shepard couldn't lust after Tali. Characters actually do grow and change over the course of a narrative you know. So my lonely boy will find another boy to love in the third game. What's it to you, anyway?

[Abispa]

Erani wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.

Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.

Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.

MIne wears a codpiece. Made of liquorice. Male Shepard is waiting. Kaiden drools...

[Servo to the bitter end]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, it wasn't possible to lust after a wide-hipped chicken in a wetsuit in the first game, but lo and behold, in the second game Shep can get freaky with a quarian—as implausible as that is. So hey, I can still maintain that my celibate Shepard is waiting for the right man. The game isn't telling me I can't, any more than ME1 told the Talimancers that Shepard couldn't lust after Tali. Characters actually do grow and change over the course of a narrative you know. So my lonely boy will find another boy to love in the third game. What's it to you, anyway?

Quoting this awesome thing.

[Sylvianus]

ReveurIngenu wrote...

I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it.  Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game?  Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you?  Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?

Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on.  It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included.  I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?

It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right.  So why so much effort in a pointless debate?  One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?

Wathever the side, everyone has his concerns, his hopes, his expectations. Nobody will leave without having first expressed all he wants to say and it can take time.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 mai 2011 - 10:22 .