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hex23 wrote...
TommyServo wrote...
It still comes back to Kelly, though.
I already addressed Kelly. Her character came off as more of a fan service to horny males, than some kind of serious pro-gay/lesbian statement. Also, as I said before, females who consider themselves straight sometimes do far more than fem Shep/Kelly so their little interaction isn't an indication that fem Shep was a lesbian, or even bi.
Guest_lightsnow13_*
ReveurIngenu wrote...
I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it. Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game? Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you? Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?
Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on. It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included. I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?
It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right. So why so much effort in a pointless debate? One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?
Abispa wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.
Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.
Yet you can still flush the toilet! WHO THE HELL IS USING IT!? Boo, the space hamster?
He keeps forgetting to flush the toilet so Shepard has to do it for him. Erani wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Shepard
should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS
supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their
own hands.
Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.
Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.
Shepard lets it all hang out huh? 
Abispa wrote...
Erani wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.
Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.
Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.
MIne wears a codpiece. Made of liquorice. Male Shepard is waiting. Kaiden drools...
Is that like a pouch covering the *cough* front area?
Sylvianus wrote...
Wathever the side, everyone has his concerns, his hopes, his expectations. Nobody will leave without having first expressed all he wants to say and it can take time.ReveurIngenu wrote...
I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it. Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game? Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you? Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?
Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on. It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included. I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?
It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right. So why so much effort in a pointless debate? One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?
Erani wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.
Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.
Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.
noun a pouch, esp. a conspicuous and decorativeErani wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Erani wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Abispa wrote...
Shepard should be try-sexual. S/he should be able to try anything. This IS supposed to be an RPG, dammit. One where people can't eat using their own hands.
Indeed. I suppose its impossible for Shepard to take a ****** too since we never see him/her do it in either of the ME games.
Also, Shepard goes commando all the time since he/she doesn't own any underpants.
MIne wears a codpiece. Made of liquorice. Male Shepard is waiting. Kaiden drools...
What's a codpiece?
Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2011 - 10:25 .
Erani wrote...
What's a codpiece?
Modifié par TommyServo, 18 mai 2011 - 10:25 .
Is that like a pouch covering the *cough* front area?
Yes. But as an argument for the idea that Shepard must be straight, it's a pretty flimsy one.Siansonea II wrote...
So, I can have sex with another woman, and not be gay or bisexual?
Modifié par Erani, 18 mai 2011 - 10:28 .
Erani wrote...
^ Thanks Tommy and Ryz and Abispa
I wonder what the geth think of romantic relationships and sex....I mean, turns out they probably have a soul after all and over a thousand of them are kinda crushing on Shepard.
Guest_AwesomeName_*
ReconTeam wrote...
jakal66 wrote...
My way or the highway is just NOT the way to go people.
Oh but my or the highway is ALWAYS the way to go when you can play the "homophobe" card and somehow link it with race. The hypocrisy astounds me, though I suppose it shouldn't. People always cloak their intentions.
Apparently being tolerant doesn't count these days, you have to be "accepting" in the sense that you let them get whatever they want.
It isn't "optional" when characters are being rewritten if that indeed occurs. (I don't consider "oh, they happened to just be bisexual the whole time" to be a real argument.) If this James Vega fellow is merely token gay guy fan service, that doesn't seem optional either. I for one would rather see "boring old Jacob" have more personality.
[Image removed]
Modifié par RaenImrahl, 19 mai 2011 - 12:30 .
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
SennenScale wrote...
Erani wrote...
^ Thanks Tommy and Ryz and Abispa
I wonder what the geth think of romantic relationships and sex....I mean, turns out they probably have a soul after all and over a thousand of them are kinda crushing on Shepard.
It depends on whether or not the Quarians progammed rule 34 into them, I guess.
TommyServo wrote...
You're reading that "I don't care" out of context, I think. It wasn't directed at Hex, it was directed at Bioware.
That said, what she says is accurate - there's nothing in ME1 or 2 that suggests Shepard can't be gay. He just doesn't have anyone to return the sentiment.
SennenScale wrote...
Erani wrote...
^ Thanks Tommy and Ryz and Abispa
I wonder what the geth think of romantic relationships and sex....I mean, turns out they probably have a soul after all and over a thousand of them are kinda crushing on Shepard.
It depends on whether or not the Quarians progammed rule 34 into them, I guess.
Modifié par Erani, 18 mai 2011 - 10:32 .
Do the cinematics in ME2 cause your game to crash? Do they just suddenly stop for no reason? Implemented does not mean "completely perfect" it means functional. Implementation comes first, then polish; while the cinematics in ME2 may not be polished, they were sure as heck implemented. Sometimes things are released that are implemented but not polished. Sometimes QA misses bugs. it happens.Phaelducan wrote...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
Again, you are metagaming. Bioware would not have programmed lesbian = ok and gay = not ok. Male shep was not gay at the time of ME1 and ME2. If he was, the option would have been there, period. It's not an omission on the behalf of the programmers. No whoops moment here. If it was so, it would be coded, period.
They recorded the lines for it. Male Shepard had s/s lines.
They recorded S/S lines again in ME2, with male Shepard.
They've been asked why it wasn't included in the final product. They've said it was time constraints, I believe.
TIme constraints my left fore-tentacle. If it was recorded, they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there. Hence why it took modders so little time to get those scenes in the game.
You obviously known absolutely nothing about game design and release.
If something isn't 100% implemented, it doesn't go live. Period. If it's 78% done, it doesn't go in. I've seen CITIES burned to the ground, cities with months of work put into them, because they were only 50% done. Cities that were in the design document from day one, cast aside because you needed their teams to work on other content, content that was 90% done, and higher on the priorities list.
Time is time. If something's not finished, it can't go in. Time constraints are very real things. And deciding what gets crossed off that feature list is devastating and painful. So don't tell me "they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there." Game design does not work that way! Assuming that it does is... just beyond maddening. When a game comes out with partially implemented features, it's usually not because the devs "didn't want to put in" the full features. It's because of time.
Fail and fail. Things go in ALL THE TIME that aren't ready in AAA games. Look at the cinematics in ME2 when you go through the Omega-4. No way was that completely done, it was choppy as all hell.
In this case we are talking about a 2 minute cinematic with one character.... which was already animated for the other gender. The lines were recorded... and the animations were complete..... if you honestly say they cut s/s romances because they didn't have time, you are rocking the ganj.
Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 11:40 .
Siansonea II wrote...
hex23 wrote...
Siansonea II wrote...
So what? I don't care that they didn't "intend" for my Shepard to be gay. They didn't do anything to prevent it, even if they didn't help it along. So I have a gay Shepard.
Uh....they programmed 2 full games where it obviously wasn't possible, or even hinted at. I'd say that's preventing it.
Well, it wasn't possible to lust after a wide-hipped chicken in a wetsuit in the first game, but lo and behold, in the second game Shep can get freaky with a quarian—as implausible as that is. So hey, I can still maintain that my celibate Shepard is waiting for the right man. The game isn't telling me I can't, any more than ME1 told the Talimancers that Shepard couldn't lust after Tali. Characters actually do grow and change over the course of a narrative you know. So my lonely boy will find another boy to love in the third game. What's it to you, anyway?
AwesomeName wrote...
I think it's worth noting that giving a male gay option in ME3 isn't a retcon since it doesn't automatically make your male Shepard gay (or even bi); if your male Shepard has been, as far as you're concerned, straight the whole time, then he'll stay that way i.e. when the male gay option flirts with your Shepard, presumably you can tell that character that you're not gay, or politely refuse.
...*sniffle*
Abispa wrote...
Temper_Graniteskul wrote...
Well, who are any of us to stand in the way of HumanMale/Wide-hippedChickenLegBucketHeadAlien loving?Abispa wrote...
ME2 fandom has proved that some people prefer their alien lover to have her head in a bucket.
That's my Tali, the plucked chicken. Hot, sexy plucked chicken. Those breasts, those legs... Oh, what a cloaca...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Do the cinematics in ME2 cause your game to crash? Do they just suddenly stop for no reason? Implemented does not mean "completely perfect" it means functional. You just don't understand what fully implemented means, or the time it takes. Implementation comes first, then polish; while the cinematics in ME2 may not be polished, they were sure as heck implemented. Sometimes things are released that are implemented but not polished. Sometimes QA misses bugs. it happens.Phaelducan wrote...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
Again, you are metagaming. Bioware would not have programmed lesbian = ok and gay = not ok. Male shep was not gay at the time of ME1 and ME2. If he was, the option would have been there, period. It's not an omission on the behalf of the programmers. No whoops moment here. If it was so, it would be coded, period.
They recorded the lines for it. Male Shepard had s/s lines.
They recorded S/S lines again in ME2, with male Shepard.
They've been asked why it wasn't included in the final product. They've said it was time constraints, I believe.
TIme constraints my left fore-tentacle. If it was recorded, they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there. Hence why it took modders so little time to get those scenes in the game.
You obviously known absolutely nothing about game design and release.
If something isn't 100% implemented, it doesn't go live. Period. If it's 78% done, it doesn't go in. I've seen CITIES burned to the ground, cities with months of work put into them, because they were only 50% done. Cities that were in the design document from day one, cast aside because you needed their teams to work on other content, content that was 90% done, and higher on the priorities list.
Time is time. If something's not finished, it can't go in. Time constraints are very real things. And deciding what gets crossed off that feature list is devastating and painful. So don't tell me "they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there." Game design does not work that way! Assuming that it does is... just beyond maddening. When a game comes out with partially implemented features, it's usually not because the devs "didn't want to put in" the full features. It's because of time.
Fail and fail. Things go in ALL THE TIME that aren't ready in AAA games. Look at the cinematics in ME2 when you go through the Omega-4. No way was that completely done, it was choppy as all hell.
In this case we are talking about a 2 minute cinematic with one character.... which was already animated for the other gender. The lines were recorded... and the animations were complete..... if you honestly say they cut s/s romances because they didn't have time, you are rocking the ganj.
Fully implemented doesn't mean 100% perfect. It means "can be played through entirely without crashing, and has at least made it through a desultory QA test without any catastrophic bugs." This can include content that has bugs which QA missed. It often does. Sometimes QA would need 50 or hours to test every single possible permutations of a quest (Ok, what happens if I do this quest right after doing quest A? quest B? quest C? What if I go to town H before town G?) Some studios are more notorious for launching with gamestopping bugs than others, but pretty much everything in game went through QA at least once, and got approved.
Sometimes there are things cut from a game at launch that would take a developer only five or six days to finish implementing. The problem is, you can't pull five or six days out of nowhere, when you're already working 80 hour weeks. Having to scrap something that is tantalizingly close to being done is painful, but you can't work more than 120 hours a week without doing serious injury to yourself, and you can only work more than 100 hours a week for so long before you can feel your body start to die. Sometimes "5 days" or "40 hours" might as well be forever.
So yes, I can believe that getting Kaidan's m/m romance and Ash's f/f romance fully implemented might have taken one developer a week or so, and they just couldn't spare anyone for the extra week. It's also possible that midway through implementation, they discovered "Crap! The confrontation scene was only coded for two LIs. We'd have to completely redo that scene if we all three LIs are available. Crap crap crap! Guess we'll have to confine players to 2 LIs." And then someone facepalmed and s/s LIs were cut. There are a thousand possibilities, and I don't presume to tell you which one actually happened. But if you had ever worked in game development, you'd know how many things can contribute to a feature cut.
When a developer tells me something was cut because they didn't have time? And they invested enough cash in that feature to record VO lines for it? I believe them. If they never intended to put it in, having VAs record those lines would be a ludicrous waste of money. If there's VO for it, it was on the design document for a long, long time.
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