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SennenScale wrote...
To those who are worried: Us having the option doesn't make your Shepard gay. Your Shepard can be straight as an arrow. You can just not choose the romance dialogue and politely refuse if any wires get crossed.
That can change.And after all these riots,it is very possible.ReveurIngenu wrote...
I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it. Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game? Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you? Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?
Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on. It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included. I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?
It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right. So why so much effort in a pointless debate? One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?
Zulmoka531 wrote...
I'm gonna re-emphasize the last part of your post, and I feel a lot of this discussion is due mainly out of fear that previously established NPCs will be rewritten with "pandering" in mind.
Not entirely my personal view, as I felt making the entire cast (well most of the LIs) in DA2 Bi was a bit of a mistake (again before you get PC on me here, Im not against it, but it's not doing anyone of either side any favors to tailor characters this way).
I think it would be best to just inrtoduce new Lis with bi/homosexual gamers in mind. Everyone gets a clean slate and given Biowares track record, the characters new and old would be handled well.
I'd also like to throw an idea out there and just bear with me. How about rejection from potential Lis.
This male character is into men, Female Shepard is rejected when flirting.
This female character is into women. Male Shepard is rejected when flirting.
And it could go other ways as well.
Modifié par TommyServo, 18 mai 2011 - 10:38 .
Phaelducan wrote...
Blah blah blah. Excuses. The scenes were functional as is, they were removed for reasons having nothing to do with time and expenditure. They were cut because Bioware didn't want more controversy, and didn't think a gay male protagonist helped their product. 100th level clue? They were right, it wouldn't have, and we would have heard more vitriolic garbage coming from Fox News.
Polliot wrote...
That can change.And after all these riots,it is very possible.ReveurIngenu wrote...
I think what it comes down to at the end of the day is just accepting it. Even if Bioware admits that it is a "retcon" in adding same sex romances, what does that change if they have already accepted to include it in the game? Even if we all go "Oh, yes, you are so right, making Shepard gay in ME3 breaks the continuity of the first two games," what would that give you? Do you think Bioware would remove it just because you proved that you are right?
Seriously, I think it's time for people to accept it and move on. It doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, it's being included. I mean, what, you think that Bioware will read your arguments and go "He's right, so we must remove it to prevent breaking continuity!"?
It's IN, and unless Bioware chickens out, it'll stay in regardless of who's right. So why so much effort in a pointless debate? One more time, what would being right bring you that you just can't seem to leave the topic?
The fact is that BioWare thought about adding M/M content in,but in the end they decided not to. There were people who weren't satisfied with that,but when ME2 came,BioWare sticked to theirs decision. Two full games without it,but now they decided to put it. There is much more to this than mere game,politics are included and pressure was on BioWare.
But now they have released hell and you can see it by number of pages this thread achieved in only few days. There is no reason good enough to change the franchise this late. I trust BioWare,but I really think they made a mistake on this one.
Modifié par Erani, 18 mai 2011 - 10:38 .
Guest_mrsph_*
Adding any kind of new romances is too much for me.There are already too many.Russalka wrote...
Apparently even adding new bisexual companions is too much for some.
Erani wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
Erani wrote...
^ Thanks Tommy and Ryz and Abispa
I wonder what the geth think of romantic relationships and sex....I mean, turns out they probably have a soul after all and over a thousand of them are kinda crushing on Shepard.
It depends on whether or not the Quarians progammed rule 34 into them, I guess.
Legion said geth observe organics/humans...so maybe they've watched people going at it.
Edit: Ryz, you are so dirty-minded.
I agree with this solution, the best actually, adding new bisexual compagnons.. They may be even only gay, that doesn't bother me and many others. Because, there are no retcon, no inconsistencies. Or even include some aliens, why not.Russalka wrote...
Apparently even adding new bisexual companions is too much for some.
Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 mai 2011 - 10:39 .
Sylvianus wrote...
But not everyone, never I'll agree with
this ridiculous system. Straight, bi, gay romance, the best and the only
good solution.
Modifié par Russalka, 18 mai 2011 - 10:40 .
bald man in a boat wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
To those who are worried: Us having the option doesn't make your Shepard gay. Your Shepard can be straight as an arrow. You can just not choose the romance dialogue and politely refuse if any wires get crossed.
Dammit stop making sense!
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Polliot wrote...
Adding any kind of new romances is too much for me.There are already too many.Russalka wrote...
Apparently even adding new bisexual companions is too much for some.
Modifié par TommyServo, 18 mai 2011 - 10:41 .
Considering you are intensely confrontational yourself, I'm not sure why you're telling other people to not be! Especially since she... isn't really being confrontational at all.Phaelducan wrote...
Already addressed. Plenty of reasons why you can't romance Tali/Garrus in ME1 whereas you can in two... both keeping in line with the other options for romance in ME1. Stop being so confrontational at the end of your posts, too. It doesn't help credibility, it hinders it. Ending with "what's it to you, anyway" does nothing to make you sound level-headed and logical. Clearly it matters or he woudn't have posted.
For me,that'S definitely one more reason to play it 
Guest_AwesomeName_*
Polliot wrote...
Adding any kind of new romances is too much for me.There are already too many.Russalka wrote...
Apparently even adding new bisexual companions is too much for some.
Guest_Nyoka_*
Modifié par Nyoka, 18 mai 2011 - 10:56 .
Ryzaki wrote...
Erani wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
Erani wrote...
^ Thanks Tommy and Ryz and Abispa
I wonder what the geth think of romantic relationships and sex....I mean, turns out they probably have a soul after all and over a thousand of them are kinda crushing on Shepard.
It depends on whether or not the Quarians progammed rule 34 into them, I guess.
Legion said geth observe organics/humans...so maybe they've watched people going at it.
Edit: Ryz, you are so dirty-minded.
don't you know it.
And really...my Shepard is gay. Some Shepards are straight, some are bi, some are lesbians, some are asexual.
The world isn't going to explode just beacuse our Shepards aren't all the same.
Russalka wrote...
A while ago, the people opposing this were arguing that the cut gay scenes were nothing and owed no significance, saying that they no doubt recorded all of it due to protocol. Now it suddenly matters.
One more thing.ME2 was originally said to be released in spring,but later they announced January release date. They could have easily sticked to spring release if they needed more time to patch things up.Phaelducan wrote...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Do the cinematics in ME2 cause your game to crash? Do they just suddenly stop for no reason? Implemented does not mean "completely perfect" it means functional. You just don't understand what fully implemented means, or the time it takes. Implementation comes first, then polish; while the cinematics in ME2 may not be polished, they were sure as heck implemented. Sometimes things are released that are implemented but not polished. Sometimes QA misses bugs. it happens.Phaelducan wrote...
CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
SennenScale wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
Again, you are metagaming. Bioware would not have programmed lesbian = ok and gay = not ok. Male shep was not gay at the time of ME1 and ME2. If he was, the option would have been there, period. It's not an omission on the behalf of the programmers. No whoops moment here. If it was so, it would be coded, period.
They recorded the lines for it. Male Shepard had s/s lines.
They recorded S/S lines again in ME2, with male Shepard.
They've been asked why it wasn't included in the final product. They've said it was time constraints, I believe.
TIme constraints my left fore-tentacle. If it was recorded, they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there. Hence why it took modders so little time to get those scenes in the game.
You obviously known absolutely nothing about game design and release.
If something isn't 100% implemented, it doesn't go live. Period. If it's 78% done, it doesn't go in. I've seen CITIES burned to the ground, cities with months of work put into them, because they were only 50% done. Cities that were in the design document from day one, cast aside because you needed their teams to work on other content, content that was 90% done, and higher on the priorities list.
Time is time. If something's not finished, it can't go in. Time constraints are very real things. And deciding what gets crossed off that feature list is devastating and painful. So don't tell me "they would have put it in the game if they wanted it there." Game design does not work that way! Assuming that it does is... just beyond maddening. When a game comes out with partially implemented features, it's usually not because the devs "didn't want to put in" the full features. It's because of time.
Fail and fail. Things go in ALL THE TIME that aren't ready in AAA games. Look at the cinematics in ME2 when you go through the Omega-4. No way was that completely done, it was choppy as all hell.
In this case we are talking about a 2 minute cinematic with one character.... which was already animated for the other gender. The lines were recorded... and the animations were complete..... if you honestly say they cut s/s romances because they didn't have time, you are rocking the ganj.
Fully implemented doesn't mean 100% perfect. It means "can be played through entirely without crashing, and has at least made it through a desultory QA test without any catastrophic bugs." This can include content that has bugs which QA missed. It often does. Sometimes QA would need 50 or hours to test every single possible permutations of a quest (Ok, what happens if I do this quest right after doing quest A? quest B? quest C? What if I go to town H before town G?) Some studios are more notorious for launching with gamestopping bugs than others, but pretty much everything in game went through QA at least once, and got approved.
Sometimes there are things cut from a game at launch that would take a developer only five or six days to finish implementing. The problem is, you can't pull five or six days out of nowhere, when you're already working 80 hour weeks. Having to scrap something that is tantalizingly close to being done is painful, but you can't work more than 120 hours a week without doing serious injury to yourself, and you can only work more than 100 hours a week for so long before you can feel your body start to die. Sometimes "5 days" or "40 hours" might as well be forever.
So yes, I can believe that getting Kaidan's m/m romance and Ash's f/f romance fully implemented might have taken one developer a week or so, and they just couldn't spare anyone for the extra week. It's also possible that midway through implementation, they discovered "Crap! The confrontation scene was only coded for two LIs. We'd have to completely redo that scene if we all three LIs are available. Crap crap crap! Guess we'll have to confine players to 2 LIs." And then someone facepalmed and s/s LIs were cut. There are a thousand possibilities, and I don't presume to tell you which one actually happened. But if you had ever worked in game development, you'd know how many things can contribute to a feature cut.
When a developer tells me something was cut because they didn't have time? And they invested enough cash in that feature to record VO lines for it? I believe them. If they never intended to put it in, having VAs record those lines would be a ludicrous waste of money. If there's VO for it, it was on the design document for a long, long time.
Blah blah blah. Excuses. The scenes were functional as is, they were removed for reasons having nothing to do with time and expenditure. They were cut because Bioware didn't want more controversy, and didn't think a gay male protagonist helped their product. 100th level clue? They were right, it wouldn't have, and we would have heard more vitriolic garbage coming from Fox News.
No way implementing s/s romances for male shep's would not have been included if Bioware thought it pertinent, relevant, and important to the narrative (even at 5-6 days... which no way would it have taken that long either... the scenes were completed... not mostly but actually finished, hence the mods out there).
They weren't actually finished. In the Kaidan scene, for example, male Shepard magically turns into a woman during the sex cutscene itself. Kaidan also refers to him as a woman directly after the act. There are also some missing lines that weren't recorded.Phaelducan wrote...
No way implementing s/s romances for male shep's would not have been included if Bioware thought it pertinent, relevant, and important to the narrative (even at 5-6 days... which no way would it have taken that long either... the scenes were completed... not mostly but actually finished, hence the mods out there).
Modifié par ipgd, 18 mai 2011 - 10:44 .
Yes. Some i'v read. It's their right to think it's good, as it's my right to think it's ridiculous.Russalka wrote...
A while ago, the people opposing this were arguing that the cut gay scenes were nothing and owed no significance, saying that they no doubt recorded all of it due to protocol. Now it suddenly matters.Sylvianus wrote...
But not everyone, never I'll agree with
this ridiculous system. Straight, bi, gay romance, the best and the only
good solution.
Has anyone even suggested that recently?
Russalka wrote...
Phaelducan wrote...
Blah blah blah. Excuses. The scenes were functional as is, they were removed for reasons having nothing to do with time and expenditure. They were cut because Bioware didn't want more controversy, and didn't think a gay male protagonist helped their product. 100th level clue? They were right, it wouldn't have, and we would have heard more vitriolic garbage coming from Fox News.
Why do you think the Fox News fiasco hurt Mass Effect's sales and after presenting false information about it, they would do so again? Why would they feel better about it now?
Zulmoka531 wrote...
I'm gonna re-emphasize the last part of your post, and I feel a lot of this discussion is due mainly out of fear that previously established NPCs will be rewritten with "pandering" in mind.
I think it would be best to just inrtoduce new Lis with bi/homosexual gamers in mind. Everyone gets a clean slate and given Biowares track record, the characters new and old would be handled well.
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