6696 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Phaelducan wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

No pretense at civility at this point. Although as a point of reference it does seem like that fight for the love side is getting pretty heavy with the rage....

Edit: Also cracks me up that anyone who would rather male shep not be bi-sexual is virulently anti-homosexual. Logic fail.

So, you think it's perfectly reasonable to prevent other people from playing a gay or bisexual Shepard, even though you can still play your Shepard the way you want? You really think that's reasonable and fair? What. Ever.

I'm preventing two things. Jack and *&&*. I do, however, think Bioware is making a mistake by changing it's gameplan. I played a lesbian shep. I also played a lesbian warden, and a gay warden. I also played a lesbian Hawke and a gay Hawke. With that said, I don't think male shep needs to be flagged for gayness. The story doesn't need it, it didn't have it for two games, and nothing in ANY of the dialog from ME1 or 2 gives any hint whatsoever that he is/could be gay. The mere idea that simply because he doesn't tag any of the female LI is evidence that he is/could be gay is preposterous, even more so because there is no possible way for male shep to pursue a male LI in either of the first two games.

Compounding all of it is the further evidence that at one point Bioware put development time into enabling a gay man-shep, but took it out on purpose. 

My Shep is one of, I don't know, 8 or 9 versions I messed around with, it just so happens none of them were both male and gay. That doesn't  make me homophobic, it makes me someone who invested a lot of play-hours into a character who was never gay, and I don't care for the decision to put a bunch of time and energy into new options "just in case" I want to make him gay next time around.

It's just silly.

Because you didn't appear to read it the first time, here's the  link and quote again: 

Posted: Tuesday, 29 September 2009 05:56AM


I didn't work on ME1 but I would venture to say that most of the
developers feel that Liara/Femshep is an F/F relationship. I don't know
if the "she's an asari" thing was ever intended to take away from the
F/F aspect (since I wasn't around when the idea was put together) but
nevertheless, she was intended as the gay female love interest.

As
far as M/M love interests... I can say that it was planned, but as far
as I know it was cut due to time constraints. Quite frankly the demand
is small. I'm not defending it, but the choice is between a level that
everyone will enjoy and a romance that only a minority will enjoy. We
did it in Jade so we're not afraid of it; there just isn't enough time.

Sorry to all the gay ME fans

-Thomas
  
  


That's a pretty clear indication that they likely took it out due to time constraints. I've already explained in multiple posts how that could happen.  I don't understand where you get the idea that it was taken out on purpose, when nobody has ever presented a single piece of evidence to that effect anywhere that I've seen.

[Phaelducan]

Who is being vulgar and offensive, Sian? Who here is anti-gay? Your post looks a like like illusions and rhetoric, and invented hate. The only really vile comment was from one of your team, a reference to a part of my anatomy and some nebulous pain. No one is persecuting you.

As to Cultural... I read that post before, but I don't buy it. I think the controversy caused them to rethink if they really wanted to do it at that time, and they decided it wasn't worth it. It would have been a negligible increase in time/resources to finish them out.

[Abispa]

billywaffles wrote...

It somehow amuses me just to think about how the hell is bioware going to make the transition between straight shepard to gay shepard.

Read this slowly.

If he has had sex with a woman or female plucked chicken in ME or ME2, he now has the OPTION to be bisexual. If he never had sex with a woman, he now has the OPTION to be gay.

Dear God, the world is going to end. The Pink Mafia is winning.

WE ARE BEING INDOCTRINATED!

[paptschik]

Siansonea II wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

twincast wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Russalka wrote...
What is the purpose of you returning all the time and not trying to start a civil dialogue?

I wasn't aware an arrogance and "we don't owe you 'homophobes' any compromise" was civil dialouge? Sounds more like the words of over-entitled braggarts.

Wee~! Homophobic Troll Alert.


In other news, the Earth travels around the Sun.

Calling someone "homophobic" is civil dialogue?

Only if it's accurate. It cracks me up that people who are virulently opposed to anything related to homosexuality somehow bridle at being called homophobic. 

But, to be fair, in these discussions everyone that is NOT opposed to all things homosexual but still doesn't entirely agree, usually ends up being called a homophobe at least half a dozen times as well.
It's how it always ends up. Yes, one side has annoying, often angry and irrational homophobes.
The other side isn't perfect either and has people yelling "homophobe! gay-hater! burn at the stake!" even when it completely wrong.
It is how it is.

I don't disagree with that, but it seems like there is a bit of a double standard around here. We who support the initiative are expected to act calm, serene and fair, regardless of how offensive and vulgar the anti-gay group behaves. We are expected to answer their insulting questions and preposterous proclamations with roses and bunnies and rainbow cookies no matter how awful they behave. Well, I'd like to aspire to that standard, but in truth, I can't act like people who are behaving badly aren't behaving badly. I don't think it's productive to treat hateful people as if they are making reasonable, logical points, unless they happen to actually be making reasonable, logical points. I do try, BOY do I try, to give them the benefit of the doubt, but all too often it's pretty obvious that they only come in here to poke at us and bully us with hate rhetoric. What do you do with that? There is no classy way to deal with people who are being hateful. I report the ones who are reportable, but there are some crafty ones who know how to walk the fine line, and proclaim innocence whenever they're called on their disruptive behavior. I try to dump as much logic, reason, math, and common sense onto them as I can, but they just ignore that stuff. You can't reason with someone whose argument is based on an irrational fear or hatred of a group of individuals.

Honestly? I often get the feeling there is a double standard, but the other way around. So you see, it's a matter of perspective probably and in the end both sides just have too many people they're really not proud of. (not to mention, I see myself in a gray area anyway, because I am in favor of same sex relationships and being able to choose a sexual orientation for Shepard...I just personally wouldn't want for certain NPCs to be revealed as bi/gay out of personal preference for how I want them to be)

[Erani]

MACharlie1 wrote...

billywaffles wrote...

It somehow amuses me just to think about how the hell is bioware going to make the transition between straight shepard to gay shepard.

Transition? me non comprende...

Maybe it means ... Shepard "comes out" during debriefing:
S:"So we've achieved peace between the geth and quarians....":wizard:
*Legion and Tali hug*<3
S: "Also, just want to let you know James Vega here and I are having hot gay sex regularly":devil:

[Centauri2002]

Erani wrote...
Yes! Aria would be a great option. She's bad*ss and sexy. Also, Carrie-Anne Moss' voice 

*resists the urge to fangirl* She does a really good job of the voice! I'd just like a romance fitting for my RenShep. My canon Shep has one already so it'd be nice to have one for her as well. An apt build up would be nice too. Nothing too sappy but touching enough. 

[paptschik]

Erani wrote...
Yes! Aria would be a great option. She's bad*ss and sexy. Also, Carrie-Anne Moss' voice 

I am of the opinion that Aria is too awesome to be LI. Shepard couldn't handle it.
Oh Aria, how I love thee....

[Some Geth]

 Can someone tell me what "white straight guilt" is?

[Abispa]

This is what I want:

Shepard can talk to it. He can frak it. Or he can kill it. Or he can sit back and watch Joker nuke it from orbit. "It" can be anything or anyone I want. Is that too much to ask?

[paptschik]

Abispa wrote...

Well, since we're arguing about stuff that'll make ME3 seem silly and catering to simple minded fans, why not complain about how Bioware expects us to accept the fantasy that the only way for Shepard to stop an invasion of god-like machines is for him and two buddies to charge into battle with armed with machine guns and rocket launchers plus one or two cinematic cut scenes where Joker flies the ship and does something cool?

Clearly, we need at least three Joker cutscenes.

Seriously though, I hope the end will have a big moment where you send your army of Krogan (if Wrex is the leader), Rachni, Quarians and Geth (assuming you managed to go a diplomatic route) and what else have you to face the damn enemy. 

[Erani]

Some Geth wrote...

 Can someone tell me what "white straight guilt" is?

I have no idea. 
I also have a feeling that even if I knew, the answer would be off-topic. 

[Abispa]

Some Geth wrote...

 Can someone tell me what "white straight guilt" is?

You walk into a bathroom where the faucet has been running for ten minutes and you find a White dude sitting on the throne, reading a Megan Fox issue of MAXIM with one hand.

[PMC65]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't disagree with that, but it seems like there is a bit of a double standard around here. We who support the initiative are expected to act calm, serene and fair, regardless of how offensive and vulgar the anti-gay group behaves. We are expected to answer their insulting questions and preposterous proclamations with roses and bunnies and rainbow cookies no matter how awful they behave. Well, I'd like to aspire to that standard, but in truth, I can't act like people who are behaving badly aren't behaving badly. I don't think it's productive to treat hateful people as if they are making reasonable, logical points, unless they happen to actually be making reasonable, logical points. I do try, BOY do I try, to give them the benefit of the doubt, but all too often it's pretty obvious that they only come in here to poke at us and bully us with hate rhetoric. What do you do with that? There is no classy way to deal with people who are being hateful. I report the ones who are reportable, but there are some crafty ones who know how to walk the fine line, and proclaim innocence whenever they're called on their disruptive behavior. I try to dump as much logic, reason, math, and common sense onto them as I can, but they just ignore that stuff. You can't reason with someone whose argument is based on an irrational fear or hatred of a group of individuals.

It's called taking the high road. Bioware has added s/s relationships and that should be the focus on the thread. What would you like to see in relation to that. This thread is not about gloating or changing other peoples viewpoint ... If a person is just adding a little "ugly" on either side it is just better to ignore the post.

I have seen some really great ideas thrown out on this thread that were completely ignored because people were too busy yelling at each other. There are people who don't like gays ... ok. There are people saying "Your Shepard is BI .. deal with it!" ... ok. Now can we talk about the game and what you would like to see.

[Some Geth]

Abispa wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

 Can someone tell me what "white straight guilt" is?

You walk into a bathroom where the faucet has been running for ten minutes and you find a White dude sitting on the throne, reading a Megan Fox issue of MAXIM with one hand.

[Phaelducan]

Abispa wrote...

billywaffles wrote...

It somehow amuses me just to think about how the hell is bioware going to make the transition between straight shepard to gay shepard.

Read this slowly.

If he has had sex with a woman or female plucked chicken in ME or ME2, he now has the OPTION to be bisexual. If he never had sex with a woman, he now has the OPTION to be gay.

Dear God, the world is going to end. The Pink Mafia is winning.

WE ARE BEING INDOCTRINATED!

Again... it's your side of the argument getting snyde and condescending. 

[Erani]

Abispa wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

 Can someone tell me what "white straight guilt" is?

You walk into a bathroom where the faucet has been running for ten minutes and you find a White dude sitting on the throne, reading a Megan Fox issue of MAXIM with one hand.

:happy::lol:

[Centauri2002]

Or how about we throw sexuality and labels out of the window? Shepard sleeps with whoever he damn well pleases for that play through, no labels attached.

Now let's move on to more fun topics, like which non-squaddies you'd like to see as a LI?

[Abispa]

Phaelducan wrote...

Abispa wrote...

billywaffles wrote...

It somehow amuses me just to think about how the hell is bioware going to make the transition between straight shepard to gay shepard.

Read this slowly.

If he has had sex with a woman or female plucked chicken in ME or ME2, he now has the OPTION to be bisexual. If he never had sex with a woman, he now has the OPTION to be gay.

Dear God, the world is going to end. The Pink Mafia is winning.

WE ARE BEING INDOCTRINATED!

Again... it's your side of the argument getting snyde and condescending. 

My side is that hopefully the rest of my Bioware homies have a sense of humor. It seems you don't. My bad.

[Siansonea]

Phaelducan wrote...


I'm preventing two things. Jack and *&&*.

I don't know what this means.

I do, however, think Bioware is making a mistake by changing it's gameplan. I played a lesbian shep. I also played a lesbian warden, and a gay warden. I also played a lesbian Hawke and a gay Hawke. With that said, I don't think male shep needs to be flagged for gayness. The story doesn't need it,

—your story doesn't need it, don't presume to speak for everyone—

it didn't have it for two games, and nothing in ANY of the dialog from ME1 or 2 gives any hint whatsoever that he is/could be gay.

—or NOT gay, or anything other than just a guy on a mission. 

The mere idea that simply because he doesn't tag any of the female LI is evidence that he is/could be gay is preposterous, even more so because there is no possible way for male shep to pursue a male LI in either of the first two games.

So, no evidence of gay = straight? Sorry, but that's not good math. No evidence of gay + no evidence of not gay = no evidence one way or the other.

Compounding all of it is the further evidence that at one point Bioware put development time into enabling a gay man-shep, but took it out on purpose. 

So, you support BioWare's 2007 decision to take it out, but don't support BioWare's 2011 decision to put it back in. After all, as you said, it was to some extent planned, then pulled, but nothing was put in its place to make the idea impossible. They just left it up to the player. A person could easily role play a gay Shepard, just not a gay Shepard in a relationship. You say that's ridiculous, but again, not having the ability to flirt with Kaidan and Jacob is not evidence that Shepard couldn't be gay. The only thing this is evidence of is that Shepard, for whatever reason, chose not to flirt with Kaidan and Jacob at that time.

My Shep is one of, I don't know, 8 or 9 versions I messed around with, it just so happens none of them were both male and gay. That doesn't  make me homophobic, it makes me someone who invested a lot of play-hours into a character who was never gay, and I don't care for the decision to put a bunch of time and energy into new options "just in case" I want to make him gay next time around.


It's just silly.

You know what, your characters still aren't gay. They aren't gay until you say they're gay, or they start flirting with another male character. Having the option for a male Shepard to be gay doesn't make ALL male Shepard's gay, any more than having the option for Shepard to be female makes ALL Shepards female. It's just another option. An option that doesn't take anything away from the existing option. And yet somehow this option you never plan to pursue is so offensive to you just for existing for other players. You act like it's all a concern for continuity, but come on, that ship has sailed. That ship sailed before the title card came up in ME2. If you're really championing retroactive continuity, I find it really strange that this is the place where you draw the line in the sand, and not at the many many MANY other instances of bungled continuity that exist in the game. Just because Shepard didn't wear his gay on his sleeve in the first two games doesn't mean he's a straight dude. That's not how it works in real life, that's not how it should work in a game. Other people's gay Shepards aren't going to infect your Shepard with gayness. Why would you logically oppose this? 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Phaelducan wrote...

Who is being vulgar and offensive, Sian? Who here is anti-gay? Your post looks a like like illusions and rhetoric, and invented hate. The only really vile comment was from one of your team, a reference to a part of my anatomy and some nebulous pain. No one is persecuting you.

As to Cultural... I read that post before, but I don't buy it. I think the controversy caused them to rethink if they really wanted to do it at that time, and they decided it wasn't worth it. It would have been a negligible increase in time/resources to finish them out.

See, this is the problem. This is what is causing me so much frustration. You are insisting that your "hunch" be taken just as seriously as actual quotes from developers.

I literally cannot understand how you could look at actual evidence like that and not say "hmm. Maybe both factors contributed" or whatever. Ah well. Better to get back to actual suggestions for ME3 implementation.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 19 mai 2011 - 01:43 .

[Erani]

centauri2002 wrote...

Or how about we throw sexuality and labels out of the window? Shepard sleeps with whoever he damn well pleases for that play through, no labels attached.

Now let's move on to more fun topics, like which non-squaddies you'd like to see as a LI?

Gianna Parasini would be another good option..or maybe Sha'ira for f/f LIs. 

[MACharlie1]

centauri2002 wrote...

Or how about we throw sexuality and labels out of the window? Shepard sleeps with whoever he damn well pleases for that play through, no labels attached.

Now let's move on to more fun topics, like which non-squaddies you'd like to see as a LI?

Gianna Parasini is at the top there. I would say Shiala but I prefer her to be an epic boss battle where she turns into a Thorian monster. 
An interesting interrupt for Al Jilani might be a kiss. Shepard lays one on her and she starts stalking him. 

[Lenimph]

centauri2002 wrote...

Now let's move on to more fun topics, like which non-squaddies you'd like to see as a LI?

... Non-squaddies? Hmm.... how about I just want them to be human.... no 's.
Other then that I want Miranda. 

[Abispa]

paptschik wrote...

Abispa wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

No pretense at civility at this point. Although as a point of reference it does seem like that fight for the love side is getting pretty heavy with the rage....

Edit: Also cracks me up that anyone who would rather male shep not be bi-sexual is virulently anti-homosexual. Logic fail.

So, you think it's perfectly reasonable to prevent other people from playing a gay or bisexual Shepard, even though you can still play your Shepard the way you want? You really think that's reasonable and fair? What. Ever.

But...I can't play my Shepard as a clumsy, slightly overweight guy that doesn't always succeed but in the end still saves the galaxy and gets the cute girl.
Where is my right to play as the likable, overweight guy?! HUH?!
I call fat-sism!

Seriously, I AM unhappy by the lack of body shape choices. Why not a less chisled look for male Shepard? Or a female Shepard who looks like one of the Williams sisters? Sneaky sniper skinny Goth girl?

I would like more options as well. I mean, I know a "me" is unreasonable, I'm fat, a fat Shepard makes no sense, he/she is a soldier and I don't plan to make Shepard like me anyway (I only have two Shepards so far anyway...one is intended as a half-asian half-caucasian male, the other is a female..both things i am definitely NOT..not sure what my third Shep will be like once I'm done replaying ME2 this week)...but a little variety would be nice. Even if we'd only get three or so body types per gender to pick from.

This is supposed to be THE FUTURE! If I want to be Baron Harkonen, male or female, I should have the option.