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[1490]

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

If you we count out the accomplishments though, NO ONE can equal up to Shepard!  You have the N7/military hero background, defeating Saren, defeating the Collectors; is there a single person in the galaxy who can even come close to those accolades?  I see Shepard's relationships being more relatable on the personal level, not the soldier level.

[MACharlie1]

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

That does make an interesting dynamic though. The hero of the Citadel with all this experience and the average soldier without a single commendation to his name. Tough shadow to be in. Be interesting if Vega becomes a pupil of Shepard of some sorts. 

[HolyMoogle]

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

Don't worry, we'll take this Vega out and have him go Renegade on some petty street criminals and settlers who are using up too many resources, then he'll be all nice and depressed/world weary!

[Ryzaki]

1490 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I think a bit age gap would make things a little awkward.

Especially if we're assuming Vega is a relatively naive Alliance soldier with little knowledge of politics. It would learn uncomfortably close to exploitation unless there is a well written and clear connection there.

Really? Tali's fairly young and I got not feeling of exploitation in her romance. Why would you feel it was exploitive? 

Though that is why I want him as someone who can hold their ownin combat and in relationships and not some male damsel in distress. 

I don't think Tali is nearly as much of a "damsel in distress" as people make her out to be.  I think that is more some players' perceptions who wish to perceive her in that role because it's more attractive to them.  Her dialogue is "shy," but understandable because it's her first relationship.  I think actions speak louder than words, and Tali is a tough chick.  Think of the battles she's been in (hold the line on Haestrom) and in the first game where she takes on the assassins.  I saw her as a very strong character, and I don't see any "exploitation" either.

Personally I don't think physical age matters much as "maturity age" either, and I think all of the characters Shepard can romance in both games are mature enough (or kinky enough: Jack) for it to seem natural.

...Uh...I totally didn't call Tali a damsel in distress. 

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

That doesn't really make Shepard more mature than Vega. And why are you calling him meek? We don't even know Vega. And honestly no one on Shepard's crew is meek. I don't see why Vega would be different. 

I still don't see where you're coming from. Unless Vega is a 18 year old fanboy that wants to do anything to please Shepard I wouldn't really see any severe power imbalance. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 06:05 .

[Augoeides]

HolyMoogle wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

Don't worry, we'll take this Vega out and have him go Renegade on some petty street criminals and settlers who are using up too many resources, then he'll be all nice and depressed/world weary!

So we'll manipulate him into events that could leave him on the edge of PTSD for the sake of closing a maturity gap? 

[DJSurface]

Augoeides wrote...
So we'll manipulate him into events that could leave him on the edge of PTSD for the sake of closing a maturity gap? 

Um..... Yes? :innocent:

[HolyMoogle]

Augoeides wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

HolyMoogle:

Heh. Vibrant and youthful, definitely ^____^

But comparing Shep's experiences (Torfan/Akuze/Elysium, events of ME, ME2, significant experience of battle, diplomacy, huge galactic shifts) to a relatively meek soldier with no understanding of politics makes me think there's a gap in 'maturity' or 'life history'. Shep's a hero, for want of a better word.

Don't worry, we'll take this Vega out and have him go Renegade on some petty street criminals and settlers who are using up too many resources, then he'll be all nice and depressed/world weary!

So we'll manipulate him into events that could leave him on the edge of PTSD for the sake of closing a maturity gap? 

...

...yes

He'll either become angsty and PTSD, or he'll discover he's a right proper killing machine! Either way it's good for drama. Also, since this line seems to be lasting longer than I thought it would, I'm just having fun

[Ryzaki]

...Why you guys keep trying to make him insane? T_T

[Augoeides]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Why you guys keep trying to make him insane? T_T

Crazy sex is good?

[KawaiiKatie]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Why you guys keep trying to make him insane? T_T

Because it isn't James Vega they want to have sex with: it's Zaeed.

[SennenScale]

centauri2002 wrote...

It's definitely time to sleep for me. I hope this thread continues to be the more fun environment it has become. :3

I'll just leave people with a question to discuss: If you don't get to romance some non-squaddies, who would you like to develop a platonic relationship with instead? Maybe a confidant?

For Ryzaki's sake I hope Joker is romanceable, but I also want to have a very strong friendship with Joker.

Ryzaki wrote...

...Why you guys keep trying to make him insane? T_T

If I may chip in, I would like some more sane squadmates please. I hear Jacob is relatively sane, but it's very hard to talk to him.

Mass Effect could use more sane people. More balanced relationship dynamics, please.. They'll be Shepard's rock instead of the other way around, for once.

Ryzaki wrote...
Guess Shepard's not as good in bed as everyone kept saying. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]
But Conrad has to be good at something after all. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

So that's how he has a wife?

[KawaiiKatie]

SennenScale wrote...

If I may chip in, I would like some more sane squadmates please. I hear Jacob is relatively sane, but it's very hard to talk to him.

Mass Effect could use more sane people. More balanced relationship dynamics, please.. They'll be Shepard's rock instead of the other way around, for once.

Thissssssss. More sane people, please. Or at least give us more indication that Shepard can lean on his/her team the same way they so heavily lean on him/her.

Jacob did fill this role pretty well--if you were in a romance with him. He lets Shepard vent and has a legitimate interest in her problems. If Jacob was made bisexual and had this same attitude towards male Shepard in ME3, I would welcome it wholeheartedly!

But if James Vega is a bisexual option, I have no idea what sort of personality to hope for... Ultimately, I would just hope that his romance offered more than "casual sex," because after two games of bachelor life, my manShep is ready for a real romance.

[1490]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Uh...I totally didn't call Tali a damsel in distress. 

Oh whoops.  I just read your sentence wrong: you were talking about the soldier dude, not Tali.  Sorry, very tired right now.  In either case, I would be agreeing with you.  I don't see any vulnerability in the age or military experience difference. 

[1490]

rynluna wrote...

Not everyone.  I can definitely see Ashley, Kaidan, and Tali open to s/s romance.  Well, I can really see any previous squaddie open to it since no one has flat out said they are straight but many have a problem with that because a past hetero relationship or even a look at the opposite sex is apparently a sure sign they are straight.  I would just be a bit surprised if the three I mentioned first weren't available for s/s love in ME3.  I'd be disappointed if Ashley won't be.  I really want her to be.

I'm happy that there will also be new squaddies up for romance too, though.  Only thing is I wonder how it will work with only one game(the end game) to establish romance.  This is why I prefer romances with people you have a longer history with.

That's kind of one of the reasons I may frown upon making returning characters bisexual.  I mean not that I have a problem with it, I'd probably play through the game again just to try that relationship out, but the "why now" question comes up.  Obviously out-of-game it was because Bioware hadn't implemented same-sex romances yet, but why wouldn't Ashley or Kaiden have shown same-sex interest by now if they've been eager to show opposite-sex interest.  It could be done with the "well I didn't know you liked that..." method, but that almost seems cliche to me.  Tali was the only character that seemed obviously attracted to Femshep; I didn't really get that with any of the other characters.

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...
For Ryzaki's sake I hope Joker is romanceable, but I also want to have a very strong friendship with Joker.

Yesssss. Jokermance with Jokerbromance would be perfect. 

If I may chip in, I would like some more sane squadmates please. I hear Jacob is relatively sane, but it's very hard to talk to him.

Mass Effect could use more sane people. More balanced relationship dynamics, please.. They'll be Shepard's rock instead of the other way around, for once.

Exactly. More sane squaddies are needed. Jacob's too prickly. 

And yes yes yes. I'm sick of being the one they cry on. ENOUGH. I am not your therapist! 

So that's how he has a wife?

Oh yes. Conrad's quite the animal in bed.  

1490 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Uh...I totally didn't call Tali a damsel in distress. 

Oh whoops.  I just read your sentence wrong: you were talking about the soldier dude, not Tali.  Sorry, very tired right now.  In either case, I would be agreeing with you.  I don't see any vulnerability in the age or military experience difference. 

It's fine. 
Aye. As long as he's not acting submissive and docile around Shepard I won't have a problem. I hope he has no problem with telling Shepard what's on his mind and hopefully will not play coy. 

Also Kaidan's "Losing you was like losing a limb." felt pretty...oddand clingy to my dude Sheps. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 06:33 .

[1490]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's fine. 
Aye. As long as he's not acting submissive and docile around Shepard I won't have a problem. I hope he has no problem with telling Shepard what's on his mind and hopefully will not play coy. 

Also Kaidan's "Losing you was like losing a limb." felt pretty...oddand clingy to my dude Sheps. 

Bioware has enough respect for their characters I am confident they would make the relationship seem natural and mutal and not go the stereotypical route.

Eh...yeah, that DOES seem pretty suggesting, lol.  I think they could pull Kaiden off, they'd just have to do it right.  Maybe Ash, but I didn't get as much as a vibe from her.  Maybe that's because I'm male though and I'm not thinking of it from a female's point of view.  Tali seemed pretty hot for femshep though. 

[KawaiiKatie]

1490 wrote...

I mean not that I have a problem with it, I'd probably play through the game again just to try that relationship out, but the "why now" question comes up.  Obviously out-of-game it was because Bioware hadn't implemented same-sex romances yet, but why wouldn't Ashley or Kaiden have shown same-sex interest by now if they've been eager to show opposite-sex interest.  It could be done with the "well I didn't know you liked that..." method, but that almost seems cliche to me.  Tali was the only character that seemed obviously attracted to Femshep; I didn't really get that with any of the other characters.

The "why now" question came up from fans about Garrus and Tali, but it was never directly answered in-game. Tali hints that she has only recently developed a crush on Shepard, and Garrus is outright surprised by Shepard's advances, so I guess it's implied that Garrus simply assumed that Shepard wouldn't be interested in a Turian. It's the "I didn't know" excuse, but it worked for Garrus and Tali. It could work for Ash and Kaidan.

I'm a fan of the theory that if Ash and Kaidan were implemented as bisexual love-interests, it'll be because, like Tali, they didn't realize what their feelings were. Perhaps they didn't know just how much same-sex Shepard meant to them until Shepard died. Sexualities can change and evolve, and can do so with believability within the plot. Though the "I didn't know that you were gay" excuse or "I think I could go gay for you" may seem cliche out of context, remember that Tropes Are Tools, and not necassarily bad things. I have faith in the Bioware writers!

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 19 mai 2011 - 06:43 .

[JeffZero]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

1490 wrote...

I mean not that I have a problem with it, I'd probably play through the game again just to try that relationship out, but the "why now" question comes up.  Obviously out-of-game it was because Bioware hadn't implemented same-sex romances yet, but why wouldn't Ashley or Kaiden have shown same-sex interest by now if they've been eager to show opposite-sex interest.  It could be done with the "well I didn't know you liked that..." method, but that almost seems cliche to me.  Tali was the only character that seemed obviously attracted to Femshep; I didn't really get that with any of the other characters.

The "why now" question came up from fans about Garrus and Tali, but it was never directly answered in-game. Tali hints that she has only recently developed a crush on Shepard, and Garrus is outright surprised by Shepard's advances, so I guess it's implied that Garrus simply assumed that Shepard wouldn't be interested in a Turian. It's the "I didn't know" excuse, but it worked for Garrus and Tali. It could work for Ash and Kaidan.

I'm a fan of the theory that if Ash and Kaidan were implemented as bisexual love-interests, it'll be because, like Tali, they didn't realize what their feelings were. Perhaps they didn't know just how much same-sex Shepard meant to them until Shepard died. Sexualities can change and evolve, and can do so with believability within the plot. Though the "I didn't know that you were gay" excuse or "I think I could go gay for you" may seem cliche out of context, remember that Tropes Are Tools, and not necassarily bad things. I have faith in the Bioware writers!

Terrific post. If these forums had a 'karma' system of some sort, I'd thumb it up or green it or star it or heart it or whatever the individual forum offered.

Barring all that, I shall simply say: +1

[M-Sinistrari]

Ryzaki wrote...
Also Kaidan's "Losing you was like losing a limb." felt pretty...oddand clingy to my dude Sheps. 

Actually that didn't strike me as odd at all since I was likening it to they had a really strong friendship ala 'brother from another mother' style.

Granted to some that sort of deep friendship to where people are like siblings in all ways but blood might seem odd but it's not unheard of.

[1490]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

The "why now" question came up from fans about Garrus and Tali, but it was never directly answered in-game. Tali hints that she has only recently developed a crush on Shepard, and Garrus is outright surprised by Shepard's advances, so I guess it's implied that Garrus simply assumed that Shepard wouldn't be interested in a Turian. It's the "I didn't know" excuse, but it worked for Garrus and Tali. It could work for Ash and Kaidan.

I'm a fan of the theory that if Ash and Kaidan were implemented as bisexual love-interests, it'll be because, like Tali, they didn't realize what their feelings were. Perhaps they didn't know just how much same-sex Shepard meant to them until Shepard died. Sexualities can change and evolve, and can do so with believability within the plot. Though the "I didn't know that you were gay" excuse or "I think I could go gay for you" may seem cliche out of context, remember that Tropes Are Tools, and not necassarily bad things. I have faith in the Bioware writers!

A very good point, Bioware did indeed use it already to fit in Tali and Garrus, and did it pretty well.  I definitely think it COULD be done, it just needs to be done in a way that doesn't seem cliche, or to imply the relationship would somehow be "unnatural" and that's why the characters were scared to pursue it.  Basically, I just want to them to seem authentic, not cheap.

[1490]

rynluna wrote...

1490 wrote...

Bioware has enough respect for their characters I am confident they would make the relationship seem natural and mutal and not go the stereotypical route.

Eh...yeah, that DOES seem pretty suggesting, lol.  I think they could pull Kaiden off, they'd just have to do it right.  Maybe Ash, but I didn't get as much as a vibe from her.  Maybe that's because I'm male though and I'm not thinking of it from a female's point of view.  Tali seemed pretty hot for femshep though. 

FemShep's "Dismissed, Chief" always gave me the flirty vibe.  I can see it happening because I think Ash was more worried about fraternization but since there's a huge chance the final stand with the Reapers won't be a success, she may be thinking..."Well, f it." 

Oh yeah, the "dismissed Chief" did seem pretty sugestive, now that I think about it.  That's a good point you make about the fraternization too.  I know we have sexuality issues in today's military; I'm not sure what they are like in the future, but I wonder if a same-sex, officer-enlisted relationship would be scrutinized or punished worse than an opposite-sex one.

[SennenScale]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Also Kaidan's "Losing you was like losing a limb." felt pretty...oddand clingy to my dude Sheps. 

Actually that didn't strike me as odd at all since I was likening it to they had a really strong friendship ala 'brother from another mother' style.

Granted to some that sort of deep friendship to where people are like siblings in all ways but blood might seem odd but it's not unheard of.

Possible, but I'd never refer to a losing a brother or sister as "loosing a limb" unless we were twins.It seems a bit weird.

[M-Sinistrari]

^  Considering Kaidan did get the essential shock of seeing dead person walking, I chalk it up to being a drama llama.

1490 wrote...

A very good point, Bioware did indeed use it already to fit in Tali and Garrus, and did it pretty well.  I definitely think it COULD be done, it just needs to be done in a way that doesn't seem cliche, or to imply the relationship would somehow be "unnatural" and that's why the characters were scared to pursue it.  Basically, I just want to them to seem authentic, not cheap.

I really can't see the Bioware writers going the route of 'unnatural desires' as a justification.  It smacks too much of outdated 1950s reasoning.  Only way I can see them handling this is with the intensity that the galaxy could be destroyed going on, people are going to want to connect on that certain level.

Kinda along the lines of Kaidan's comment of 'We're the only thing not going to happen again', I can see a bi/gay character deciding that they do want to have whatever moments of happiness are left before potential death.

Modifié par M-Sinistrari, 19 mai 2011 - 07:00 .