6696 réponses à ce sujet

[1490]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

I really can't see the Bioware writers going the route of 'unnatural desires' as a justification.  It smacks too much of outdated 1950s reasoning.  Only way I can see them handling this is with the intensity that the galaxy could be destroyed going on, people are going to want to connect on that certain level.

Kinda along the lines of Kaidan's comment of 'We're the only thing not going to happen again', I can see a bi/gay character deciding that they do want to have whatever moments of happiness are left before potential death.

Fair enough, I can accept someone who considers themselves straight finding themselves attracted to someone of the same sex if they have fought within brushes of death together and saved each other's lives on multiple occasions.

On another note, I wonder what Turians' and Quarians' view of homosexuality/bisexuality are?  There could be some cultural justification there from refraining from hitting on same-sex-Shep in the first two games.

[Ryzaki]

1490 wrote...
Bioware has enough respect for their characters I am confident they would make the relationship seem natural and mutal and not go the stereotypical route.

Eh...yeah, that DOES seem pretty suggesting, lol.  I think they could pull Kaiden off, they'd just have to do it right.  Maybe Ash, but I didn't get as much as a vibe from her.  Maybe that's because I'm male though and I'm not thinking of it from a female's point of view.  Tali seemed pretty hot for femshep though. 

 

indeed. 

It does. Ash...I don't think so. Ash's too...blunt. She would've told Shepard her feelings a long time ago. I could see Kaidan stepping back but not Ash. 

M-Sinistrari wrote...
Actually that didn't strike me as odd at all since I was likening it to they had a really strong friendship ala 'brother from another mother' style.

Granted to some that sort of deep friendship to where people are like siblings in all ways but blood might seem odd but it's not unheard of.

My issue with that is even my friends I wouldn't say something like that. It would have to be true family to me and I really don't get the vibe that Kaidan and Shepard had that sort of relationship (when you talk to him in ME1 he's rather distant and "don't you have better things to do with your time?") there's no brofisting like there is with Garrus and Wrex. I really don't get the vibe that he and Shepard have a close enough friendship for him to be saying that.The relationship struck me as entirely professional until that comment where I just went "...wait what?". I could see some gratitude for saving his life but even after that I didn't get any close friends vibe. (especially not losing a limb close friend vibe. I expect that comment to come from someone who had practically been attached to the hip to Shepard. Kaidan is not that person. Kaidan and Shepard are totally not Those Two Guys, or Heterosexual Life Partners when that comment is made (and those are the kinds of relationshipsI'd expect that comment to come from.) )  

Oh its defintely not. I just don't see the relationship like that at all. 

As for shock. Kaidan knows Shepard was alive. He didn't believe it until then but yeah..it's pretty much in reports that Shepard's been seen running around. (And let's not even get into the fact that you may have talked to Anderson by then. There's no way Anderson didn't tell the VS). <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 07:13 .

[1490]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue with that is even my friends I wouldn't say something like that. It would have to be true family to me and I really don't get the vibe that Kaidan and Shepard had that sort of relationship (when you talk to him in ME1 he's rather distant and "don't you have better things to do with your time?") there's no brofisting like there is with Garrus and Wrex. I really don't get the vibe that he and Shepard have a close enough friendship for him to be saying that. 

I guess it depends on the culture you are from too.  In America, most guys are very un-touchy with each other and are very conservative about what they say, but in many European countries and SE Asian countries like the Philippines, guys are very touchy and "romantic friendships" are much more common.  

For Kaiden though, that would be a really odd thing to say, considering the strict military background, and the fact that he is saying it to his commander.  I mean, I know they are friends and all, but you still have a certain "space of respect" with your CO, so in that circumstance I wouldn't say that comment is "unassuming."

[SennenScale]

I imagine there is a combination of several things that may have made Ash or Kaidan not pursue a relationship with Shepard.

Regs. It didn't stop the straight romances, but I imagine with other factors in play, it might have been a contributing factor.

Thinking Shepard was interested in someone else ("I always thought you had a thing for Kaidan/Ashley" "Liara seemed interested, so I just thought that..." "Well you talked A LOT to Tali/Garrus" depending on whether you give Tali geth data or Paragon/Renegaded Garrus)


If you pursued no one/rushed through ME1 or didn't import a savegame: "We didn't really have time for anything else, Shepard. There were more important things to focus on, like saving the galaxy.")

Taking longer to realize they had feelings for Shepard in the first place/not figuring it out till Shepard was dead (which would apply to a straight romance in ME3, too)

And there might be other things, but these came to mind.

[1490]

There was really no advancement for Ash or Kaiden in ME 2 either.  They could have realized their feelings right after ME 1, but the overwhelming shock and anger of seeing Shepard working for Cerberus put that on the backburner.

[Ryzaki]

1490 wrote...
I guess it depends on the culture you are from too.  In America, most guys are very un-touchy with each other and are very conservative about what they say, but in many European countries and SE Asian countries like the Philippines, guys are very touchy and "romantic friendships" are much more common.  

For Kaiden though, that would be a really odd thing to say, considering the strict military background, and the fact that he is saying it to his commander.  I mean, I know they are friends and all, but you still have a certain "space of respect" with your CO, so in that circumstance I wouldn't say that comment is "unassuming."

Yeah that as well. I wish at times my friends would *stop* touching me. I am not a teddy bear.  

And even when you look at their relationship its an odd thing to say(I edited to include this.) in ME1 he's not really relaxed with Shepard. Every convo is ended with "Commander" and he's very professional. He's not standoffish but he's nowhere near as warm as Garrus and Wrex end up being. I believe Shepard can even motion for a hug from Garrus during the introduction (otherwise why throw his ams out so wide?) even when he sees Shepard he doesn't give him a warm handshake like Wrex and Shepard doesn't sound as warm and welcoming as with Garrus. "how've you been Kaidan?" ...Uh...okay then Shepard. There's a bubble there that stops the comment from making sense in a friendship way to me. I don't feel that their relationship developed into close friends. 

And agreed about it being odd for Kaidan to say. Even odder still is the comment Shepard can say afterward. "I miss him, I wish we could've spent more time together." is said in a wistful tone. Yet these two show nothing to explain those kind of feelings if I'm to believe its based off friendship. You don't get such a deep friendship just by knowing someone. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 07:28 .

[Valcutio]

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

[M-Sinistrari]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue with that is even my friends I wouldn't say something like that. It would have to be true family to me and I really don't get the vibe that Kaidan and Shepard had that sort of relationship (when you talk to him in ME1 he's rather distant and "don't you have better things to do with your time?") there's no brofisting like there is with Garrus and Wrex. I really don't get the vibe that he and Shepard have a close enough friendship for him to be saying that. 

Oh its defintely not. I just don't see the relationship like that at all. 

As for shock. Kaidan knows Shepard was alive. He didn't believe it until then but yeah..it's pretty much in reports that Shepard's been seen running around. (And let's not even get into the fact that you may have talked to Anderson by then. There's no way Anderson didn't tell the VS). <_<

With me, I do have a close friend where it's the joke in our social circle that we share the same brain and our families have joked that we're some sort of separated at birth.  We just happened to hit it off insanely well back in high school and have been through tons of ups and downs in our lives since then.  Who knows why we connected so well, but we did.  I know for me if something happened to her like death, it would feel like losing a part of me just because of how long we've known each other.

However I kinda doubt I'd actually verbalize that, but in the throes of shock, who knows.

And as far as Kaidan knowing Shepard's alive, yeah he's heard the rumours, seen the reports, but that still doesn't quite prepare a person for here's the actuality in the flesh.  I'd share my own stories of having ample book learning preparedness that went out the window when the here's the moment occurred, but that'd be not appropriate for a family friendly board.

With all that said, it's really amazing that they handled the writing so versatile that each of us has our own perspective of the scene.

[Ryzaki]

M-Sinistrari wrote...
With me, I do have a close friend where it's the joke in our social circle that we share the same brain and our families have joked that we're some sort of separated at birth.  We just happened to hit it off insanely well back in high school and have been through tons of ups and downs in our lives since then.  Who knows why we connected so well, but we did.  I know for me if something happened to her like death, it would feel like losing a part of me just because of how long we've known each other.

And there's the issue. 

Just how long have Shepard and Kaidan known each other? Couldn't have been too long with how professional and brisk Kaidan is when Shepard starts speaking to him during ME1. 

And ME2 is only a few months after the events (when the normandy blows up I mean) of ME1 is it not? They couldn't have known each other very long at all. 

Even after saving his life he's still professional and somewhat distant. He doesn't start getting really warm to Shepard like Garrus and Wrex do. To me it just doesn't compute. Even when talking about Liara, Kaidan gets warm for about 2 seconds before getting professional and distant again. Shepard and Kaidan have the same type of relationship as Shepard and the rest of the crew. I'd be just as confused if Joker said "losing you was like losing a limb." 

However I kinda doubt I'd actually verbalize that, but in the throes of shock, who knows.

And as far as Kaidan knowing Shepard's alive, yeah he's heard the rumours, seen the reports, but that still doesn't quite prepare a person for here's the actuality in the flesh.  I'd share my own stories of having ample book learning preparedness that went out the window when the here's the moment occurred, but that'd be not appropriate for a family friendly board.

With all that said, it's really amazing that they handled the writing so versatile that each of us has our own perspective of the scene.

 

True. 

Also true. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 07:33 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Valcutio wrote...

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

Agreed, but clowns like Ryzaki won't stop until every male is a s/s option...sad but true...nothing else to fill their little lives it seems

Boils my ****** when any company kowtows to such a minority, I hope implementing this for the sake of less than 500 vocal forumites is worth it.

EDIT :- The only good news is that if they do turn Kaiden gay, I can leave him on Virmire, no big deal. And if the new guy is gay, I can just leave him on the ship and not talk to him (unless he is a stone killer, like Omar Little or Louis from the John Connelly novels...and yes, they're both gay characters, and they are cool as fook)
For the love of God though, DON'T MAKE GARRUS GAY! He's a badass. Also he's the perfect counterpoint to Shepherd, brothers in arms to the end. Not brothers in bums.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 19 mai 2011 - 07:38 .

[1490]

Valcutio wrote...

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

I don't think we'd be able to give an accurate figure on this because only a small percentage of people who play the games frequent these forums, but online the support for same-sex options seems to have been overwhelmingly positive to me.  If most people do not support it, they are at least "ok" with it.  Besides, considering that you always have a choice in your dialogue, it's not going to affect players who are completely uninterested in same-sex romances.

[SennenScale]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

With me, I do have a close friend where it's the joke in our social circle that we share the same brain and our families have joked that we're some sort of separated at birth.  We just happened to hit it off insanely well back in high school and have been through tons of ups and downs in our lives since then.  Who knows why we connected so well, but we did.  I know for me if something happened to her like death, it would feel like losing a part of me just because of how long we've known each other.

However I kinda doubt I'd actually verbalize that, but in the throes of shock, who knows.

I have friends like that as well, but it doesn't seem to me like Kaidan and Shepard had a relationship/closeness like that. I see Kaidan being formal and polite ingame, kind of distant, when I'm not romancing Kaidan or playing a dudeshep. And they've only been working together on the Normandy for a month prior to ME1 IIRC, but correct me if I'm wrong.

M-Sinistrari wrote...

With all that said, it's really amazing that they handled the writing so versatile that each of us has our own perspective of the scene.

Indeed. Frustrating as Shepard's derp responses were, Kaidan/Ash were handled well on Horizon.

[M-Sinistrari]

Ryzaki wrote...

And there's the issue. 

Just how long have Shepard and Kaidan known each other? Couldn't have been too long with how professional and brisk Kaidan is when Shepard starts speaking to him during ME1. 

And ME2 is only a few months after the events (when the normandy blows up I mean) of ME1 is it not? They couldn't have known each other very long at all. 

Even after saving his life he's still professional and somewhat distant. He doesn't start getting really warm to Shepard like Garrus and Wrex do. 

That's actually a good question that I don't think's been addressed anywhere.  How long has Shepard and Kaidan known each other?  Kaidan's aware of Shep's service record, but that could easily be something that got heavy extranet coverage.  I'm not sure if it's stated anywhere how long the Normandy's been out of dock on it's Eden Prime run, though with travel speed, it's a hard call whether it's something like a few days or longer.

When I've tried to research this before, all I found were fanfics so I think in the end it's one of those make it up yourself deals.

Equally I can't quite site being distant as an indicator since back when I worked in tech, I did work and hang out with a fair amount who pretty much were distant on job and off.  But then that could be just a characteristic unique to your average techweenie.

[SennenScale]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Agreed, but clowns like Ryzaki won't stop until every male is a s/s option...sad but true...nothing else to fill their little lives it seems

Ryzaki has said more than once that they'd be happy with Joker. Read the thread if you're going to comment.

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Boils my ****** when any company kowtows to such a minority, I hope implementing this for the sake of less than 500 For the love of God though, DON'T MAKE GARRUS GAY! He's a badass. Also he's the perfect counterpoint to Shepherd, brothers in arms to the end. Not brothers in bums.

Few people are asking for bisexual Garrus. However, gay and bisexuals can be plently baddass, dude.

Modifié par SennenScale, 19 mai 2011 - 07:42 .

[Ryzaki]

M-Sinistrari wrote...
That's actually a good question that I don't think's been addressed anywhere.  How long has Shepard and Kaidan known each other?  Kaidan's aware of Shep's service record, but that could easily be something that got heavy extranet coverage.  I'm not sure if it's stated anywhere how long the Normandy's been out of dock on it's Eden Prime run, though with travel speed, it's a hard call whether it's something like a few days or longer.

When I've tried to research this before, all I found were fanfics so I think in the end it's one of those make it up yourself deals.

Equally I can't quite site being distant as an indicator since back when I worked in tech, I did work and hang out with a fair amount who pretty much were distant on job and off.  But then that could be just a characteristic unique to your average techweenie.

 

True. And my first conversation had Shepard telling him "there's nothing wrong with being friends with your commanding officer." and Kaidan was pretty "Eh...maybe." about it. So I didn't get the implication that they knew each other well before ME1 started. 

True. But just based on the way Shepard treats Kaidan and how Kaidan reacts to Shepard I don't see them talking much before the events of the game. Kaidan's too professional and distant when there's no need to be for me to buy it. Everytime he starts getting friendly he clams up not soon after. 

Were they distant to the same people they considered close and personal friends? Friends that if lost would be like "losing a limb?" 

That's the whole issue to me. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 07:46 .

[1490]

@SennenScale

Don't even respond to him, he's just trying to stir up sh*t. If he doesn't like what Bioware puts in their games, he doesn't have to buy them.

[SennenScale]

1490 wrote...

@SennenScale

Don't even respond to him, he's just trying to stir up sh*t. If he doesn't like what Bioware puts in their games, he doesn't have to buy them.

Sorry. Forgot that for a moment.

Modifié par SennenScale, 19 mai 2011 - 07:46 .

[1490]

Ryzaki wrote...

True. But just based on the way Shepard treats Kaidan and how Kaidan reacts to Shepard I don't see them talking much before the events of the game. Kaidan's too professional and distant when there's no need to be for me to buy it. Everytime he starts getting friendly he clams up not soon after. 

Were they distant to the same people they considered close and personal friends? Friends that if lost would be like "losing a limb?" 

That's the whole issue to me. 

Regardless, while it "could" be a friendly comment, it's a way in if they want to make Kaidena male option.  Just like how Tali says "I watched you for so long" and mentions specific instances from the first game if you romance her, acknowledging that she did, in fact, have feelings for you then, but chose not to act on them for certain reasons.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Tbh I just want the game to be out so we can put all this rumor milling and theorycrafting to bed. Gays can rejoice either way, but whether the average straight gamer will have to face balls out awkwardness à la Anders in DA2 or if it will be up to Shep to initiate remains to be seen.

Either way, I'll still buy the game, gotta see how the trilogy ends, and besides, I wanna see how my Shepherd's love affair with Liara turns out. Like I mentioned before, pretty sure as long as they only make ONE s/s option, I can safely ZevKnife it from the game.

The only thing I take issue with is turning the whole cast or returning cast members into bisexuals. It's unrealistic, it ruins immersion, and once they've flirted with you, whether you turn em down or not, that's it, they're Bi/Gay, in your mind, for the rest of the game.

Anyway, I'm outtie, got some Arcanum to play and this thread has taken up waaaaaaay too much of my time. A game is a game at the end of the day. Also Senne, check my post, I edited it and yes indeed, there are badass gay characters out there, but Garrus isn't one of them.

[Ryzaki]

1490 wrote...
Regardless, while it "could" be a friendly comment, it's a way in if they want to make Kaidena male option.  Just like how Tali says "I watched you for so long" and mentions specific instances from the first game if you romance her, acknowledging that she did, in fact, have feelings for you then, but chose not to act on them for certain reasons.

 

True. 

Doesn't explain Shepard's derp greeting though. :/ "How you doing Kaidan?" indeed. You'd think Kaidan was just some random dude in the street. 

[JamesMoriarty123]

1490 wrote...

@SennenScale

Don't even respond to him, he's just trying to stir up sh*t. If he doesn't like what Bioware puts in their games, he doesn't have to buy them.

One last thing, get off your soap box m8. People can be against things as well you know, and just because they are doesn't make their opinion any less valid. My input as a fan should be just as valid as your input as a fan.

The whole "don't buy it then" argument is moot. Would you be happy if that was the defacto response to everyone campaigning FOR s/s romance? No s/s romance guys, don't like it, don't buy it.

Lol. It's clowns like YOU that bring the discussion down.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 19 mai 2011 - 07:54 .

[SennenScale]

@1490 It leaves an opening, definitely.

But I wonder what Kaidan would mention if they went the Tali route, where she says "How could I possibly harbor feelings for the dashing commander who saved me and made me part of his crew".

What would Kaidan's 'I had feelings right then but I didn't approach you because ____" moment be?

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...

@1490 It leaves an opening, definitely.

But I wonder what Kaidan would mention if they went the Tali route, where she says "How could I possibly harbor feelings for the dashing commander who saved me and made me part of his crew".

What would Kaidan's 'I had feelings right then but I didn't approach you because ____" moment be?

I didn't approach you because you had a lot on your plate by thetime I realized how I felt?" 

Or it would be better if his feelings fully developed after Shepard kicked the bucket. 2 years of angsting over a love lost. <3 Then right when he starts getting over it Shepard's all "how ya doing Kaidan?"  And the fact that he's treating Kaidan like some random dude on the street after he's been dead for 2 years and running around with Cerberus sets Kaidan off. 

[1490]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

1490 wrote...

@SennenScale

Don't even respond to him, he's just trying to stir up sh*t. If he doesn't like what Bioware puts in their games, he doesn't have to buy them.

One last thing, get off your soap box m8. People can be against things as well you know, and just because they are doesn't make their opinion any less valid. My input as a fan should be just as valid as your input as a fan.

The whole "don't buy it then" argument is moot. Would you be happy if that was the defacto response to everyone campaigning FOR s/s romance? No s/s romance guys, don't like it, don't buy it.

Lol. It's clowns like YOU that bring the discussion down.

I have no need to respond to unwarranted verbal attacks, but:

On the beginning of the thread:Sexist, vulgar, and other insulting comments and remarks as well as foul language will not be tolerated, and Users engaging in such language can expect an unhealthy dose of Banhammer. Remember the Site Rules

Doesn't matter what your opinion is, unwarranted verbal attacks on other members is against the site rules.  Deal with it and have a civil discussion or leave.

Modifié par 1490, 19 mai 2011 - 07:58 .