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[Servo to the bitter end]

It's like ten points - a drop in the bucket. Halfway through Act 2, my Isabela-affiliated Hawke was Anders' best friend.

[Ryzaki]

TommyServo wrote...

It's like ten points - a drop in the bucket. Halfway through Act 2, my Isabela-affiliated Hawke was Anders' best friend.

Really. 

Trying to be Fenris friend as a mage...now that's something rivalry points really hurt you on. 

[FenrisDeSolar]

Golden Owl wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

The next Mass Effect series of games: based around an all-female crew on board the starship Amazonia. Hijinks ensue.

Noooooooo!!!........Now a bare chested all male crew...hmmmm...............I'm sold...

Obviously the Mass Effect series will never be allowed to die if we fans get what we want. There will have to be  "Mass Effect: We're Lesbians, GTFO!" as well as "Mass Effect: Men in Tights" and "Mass Effect: Sticky Business"... 

I just want ME3, really. Anything ME related after that is a "perhaps, perhaps not", depending on presentation and format. XD

[Cartims]

I just hope Miri is an option, otherwise I have to play as male Shep.....oh the horror...but the PRIZE....lol!

[Cootie]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't get it.

I had to do something similar with Tali (where's she *stopped* talking to my Shepard period. I'd take a few renegade points and some irritation over no more interaction.). And it wasn't that big of a deal.

Oh, gawd, this. I don't see anyone complaining when girls initiate the romances.
A part of me just wants this trend to continue just so we can accept it as a norm and it won't have the "Anders hit on me" shock value.

[Erani]

 I think a <3 icon or different colored text would both work very well. Therefore:

1. MShep: I want you Kaidan. <3
or
2. MShep: I want you Kaidan.

both make it extremely clear you are about to engage in some hot male loving. 

[Servo to the bitter end]

Ryzaki wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

It's like ten points - a drop in the bucket. Halfway through Act 2, my Isabela-affiliated Hawke was Anders' best friend.

Really. 

Trying to be Fenris friend as a mage...now that's something rivalry points really hurt you on. 

Fenris is hard to please. Even giving him his gift, I reloaded and chose the "right" answers, and I just ended up with slightly less rivalry. Although, to be fair, a lot of them didn't seem to like their gifts all that much.

I'm guessing the only way to please him is to go full templar - but I can't bring myself to be that evil.

[LiquidGrape]

I think we can all agree that reducing the friendship/rivalry mechanic of DA2 to "a loss of points" is terribly reductive in the first place. Gaining rivalry points isn't "wrong" or "punishment", it's simply a different dynamic.
If you turn Anders down, it's completely in-character for him to resent you for it, if only fleetingly.
I must agree with something I think Siansonea said a couple of pages back: if your character has the option to outright deny a same sex romance, doesn't that reaffirm his or her sexuality much more clearly than if you were never "challenged" on that point?

Anyway, I think this thread needs a happy.



Xenophilic lesbianism 4-ever!

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 19 mai 2011 - 03:13 .

[Ryzaki]

Cootie wrote...
Oh, gawd, this. I don't see anyone complaining when girls initiate the romances.
A part of me just wants this trend to continue just so we can accept it as a norm and it won't have the "Anders hit on me" shock value.

Aye. And at least with Anders the incident is soon swept under the rug never to be mentioned again. Where's Tali...she just doesn't want to talk anymore. <_< 

TommyServo wrote...
Fenris is hard to please. Even giving him his gift, I reloaded and chose the "right" answers, and I just ended up with slightly less rivalry. Although, to be fair, a lot of them didn't seem to like their gifts all that much.

I'm guessing the only way to please him is to go full templar - but I can't bring myself to be that evil.

I *did* go full templar and he's like a damn diva. I had to make sure every conversation gave me friendship points and even then near end game I tried to get him to spare his sister. Ended up getting 25 rivalry went FUUUUUUUU then reloaded and let him kill her so I could max out his friendship (and this is *after* I gave him all his gifts.). Everytime I hear someone complain about Anders (who I had maxed out mid act 2, if that late) I roll my eyes. 

[Siansonea]

 One thing I liked about the <3 icon was that it didn't work on everyone. Aveline would ignore Hawke's hamfisted attempts at flirtation for the most part, and just continue on with what she was saying. And that female elf in the Dalish camp will tell you to GTFO, you freaky human. I loved that <3 didn't always equal  from the other person.

[Siansonea]

LiquidGrape wrote...
*snip*
I must agree with something I think Siansonea said a couple of pages back: if your character has the option to outright deny a same sex romance, doesn't that reaffirm his or her sexuality much more clearly than if you were never "challenged" on that point?
*snip*

Did I hear my name? 

I've brought this up several times. People keep complaining about the whole Anders Rivalry points thing, and I keep thinking how odd it is that they are so worried about offending a gay/bisexual video game character, but have zero problem offending real life gay and bisexual people, as well as others who support inclusion. I think that's some screwed up priorities right there.

[M-Sinistrari]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Reducing the friendship/rivalry mechanic of DA2 to "a loss of points" is terribly reductive in the first place. Gaining rivalry points isn't "wrong" or "punishment", it's simply a different dynamic.

What I've noticed here as well as on other message boards is there seems to be a divergent interpretation that I see also with the Paragon/Renegade pendulum and that somehow Rivalry and Renegade are wrong or by playing those routes are being punished, when from what I see they really are only just different resolutions from Paragon/Friendship.

Be interesting if a study was done to determine why people interpret things this way.

[Cootie]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Be interesting if a study was done to determine why people interpret things this way.

I think it's due to the Red = Bad systems we keep using.

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cootie wrote...
Oh, gawd, this. I don't see anyone complaining when girls initiate the romances.
A part of me just wants this trend to continue just so we can accept it as a norm and it won't have the "Anders hit on me" shock value.

Aye. And at least with Anders the incident is soon swept under the rug never to be mentioned again. Where's Tali...she just doesn't want to talk anymore. <_< 

TommyServo wrote...
Fenris is hard to please. Even giving him his gift, I reloaded and chose the "right" answers, and I just ended up with slightly less rivalry. Although, to be fair, a lot of them didn't seem to like their gifts all that much.

I'm guessing the only way to please him is to go full templar - but I can't bring myself to be that evil.

I *did* go full templar and he's like a damn diva. I had to make sure every conversation gave me friendship points and even then near end game I tried to get him to spare his sister. Ended up getting 25 rivalry went FUUUUUUUU then reloaded and let him kill her so I could max out his friendship (and this is *after* I gave him all his gifts.). Everytime I hear someone complain about Anders (who I had maxed out mid act 2, if that late) I roll my eyes. 

I am SO not a Fenris fan. I just don't like the character. He's such a douche about mages, and doesn't see the hypocrisy that enslaving mages is just as wrong as being enslaved BY mages, especially after he spends several years be-bopping around Kirkwall with Anders, Bethany, Merrill and potentially Mage Hawke. Naturally if you Friendship him to death (which is quite challenging if you're pro-Mage, as you've said), he'll fall in line, but I find both his and Anders partisanship REALLY annoying after awhile. That's one reason I adore Izzy, she has no agenda other than to have fun, get a boat, and not get killed by Qunari. 

[Ryzaki]

Cootie wrote...

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Be interesting if a study was done to determine why people interpret things this way.

I think it's due to the Red = Bad systems we keep using.

 

And people not bothering to read the manual. <_< 

Either that or the metagame to get everyone to friendship because as Cootie said Red = Bad. 

I on the other hand just let things flow my first game. Ended up liking rivalry more than friend. 

[LiquidGrape]

Cootie wrote...

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Be interesting if a study was done to determine why people interpret things this way.

I think it's due to the Red = Bad systems we keep using.

I agree. I'd much prefer it if that information was kept ambivalent, and only expressed through character interaction. The visual reference is thoroughly redundant, and it reduces relationships to a matter of scales and weights.
Dragon Age 2 would've managed perfectly fine without its inclusion. The way it handled the development of your relationships to the other characters through dialogue and suggestion was more than enough.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...
I am SO not a Fenris fan. I just don't like the character. He's such a douche about mages, and doesn't see the hypocrisy that enslaving mages is just as wrong as being enslaved BY mages, especially after he spends several years be-bopping around Kirkwall with Anders, Bethany, Merrill and potentially Mage Hawke. Naturally if you Friendship him to death (which is quite challenging if you're pro-Mage, as you've said), he'll fall in line, but I find both his and Anders partisanship REALLY annoying after awhile. That's one reason I adore Izzy, she has no agenda other than to have fun, get a boat, and not get killed by Qunari. 

/me huggles Fenris. I don't believe the circle is enslaving mages though. And really I see very little hypocrisy in his actions, not as much as in Anders'. And really spending the game around Anders turned me against mages. Anders is a bit of a self righteous douche. Much more so than Fenris. (I wasn't pro-mage. I'm not a pro-mage person. I'm pro-neutrality.) I like rivaling Anders for giving him a good shake. He needs one. Desperately. Fenris is a lot more neutral than people give him credit for, does help that unlike Anders a friendship Fenris will help you in endgame regardless of your choice. 

Izzy irks me. Just because she has no agenda other than having fun, getting a boat and not getting killed by Qunari (that and she keeps ditching me unless I metagame. F*ck that noise.) 

But we just have different preferences.  and the mage vs templar debate isn't for this thread. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 03:28 .

[Russalka]

I wonder if I would enjoy Mr Shepard doing a bit of this.

I don't know why, but I enjoyed it too much with my Ms Shepard. No, not that way, you sicko.

[LiquidGrape]

Ryzaki wrote...

Izzy irks me. Just because she has no agenda other than having fun, getting a boat and not getting killed by Qunari (that and she keeps ditching me unless I metagame. F*ck that noise.) 

I think part of Isabela's great charm is precisely that she doesn't have an "agenda". She is basically devoid of prejudices, despite having been subject to them herself for all her life.
It speaks a lot of her character that she remains so jovial and open-minded.
She does develop her capability of more intimate emotions, however, if approached romantically. It doesn't change who she is (as it shouldn't), but it allows her to experience something new.

"Girly fun" being the first step on that path.

(See how I tied that to the subject matter of the thread?)

[Ryzaki]

LiquidGrape wrote...
I think part of Isabela's great charm is precisely that she doesn't have an "agenda". She is basically devoid of prejudices, despite having been subject to them herself for all her life. 
It speaks a lot of her character that she remains so jovial and open-minded.
She does develop her capability of more intimate emotions, however, if approached romantically. It doesn't change who she is (as it shouldn't), but it allows her to experience something new.

"Girly fun" being the first step on that path.

(See how I tied that to the subject matter of the thread?)

 

Aye it does. I just can't stand that to get her to stay with my Hawke I *have* to metagame. I've never been able to get her to stay without metagaming. 

And yes I see what you did there.  

[PMC65]

rynluna wrote...

The thing I loved most about DA2 'mances was that you got to know your LI over the years. This is why I'm hoping that the VS is romanceable. Shepard and VS have known each other for a long time, been through many things, and the VS had to deal with Shep's death. It's been a rollercoaster, definitely not sunshine and bunnies the entire time they've known each other.

I absolutely agree with this!

This is set up as a trilogy so just bringing in a new character in the final chapter is ok ... but also a little like Han Solo not appearing until "Return Of The Jedi". I would prefer my femshep have Ashley as a choice and then I would do a ME1-3 run just to see the story play out.

[jeweledleah]

personally, I wouldn't even mind if there are no color/heart indicators to romances, provided there's an option to break off the relationship at any time (so that if you didn't realize you were flirting - you could extricate yourself, once you do), in fact - make it a nice option and a nasty one, and I don't want breaking off relationship automatically end up in "I won't talk to you anymore, ever" scenario (unless you use a jerk response instead of a nice one - then its valid)

however - icons or colored text make it easier to relax and not worry for a lot of people, so its probably a better solution for majority.

here's an idea of a toggle that I have. at the beginning of the game - you get to chose whether you want colored text to be displayed? or everything show up in uniform color, so that you don't ever know which response gives you which score points, until after you chose it. this of course will require much better paraphrasing, but its already required IMO. with this sort of toggle - those who want to know what to avoid from the start - get their wish. and those who want to roleplay the unknown? get their wish and I don't think it would be difficult to implement either.

[Cootie]

SO HEY DRAGON AGE IS FUN AND ALL BUT WHAT IF IT WAS IN SPACE RIGHT !?!?!?

*cough cough*
Anyway, I'mma quote myself a teeny bit.

Cootie wrote...

I don't know how the Tali-romance works, but I hear a lot of people talking about her and saying that they could not romance her, because she was like a sister to their Shepards and it would be weird.

How did that work in-game?
I mean, can't the same logic be applied to Garrus if he had been an s/s-option?
"I didn't romance Garrus 'cause he's my bro" and so forth?

[M-Sinistrari]

jeweledleah wrote...

personally, I wouldn't even mind if there are no color/heart indicators to romances, provided there's an option to break off the relationship at any time (so that if you didn't realize you were flirting - you could extricate yourself, once you do), in fact - make it a nice option and a nasty one, and I don't want breaking off relationship automatically end up in "I won't talk to you anymore, ever" scenario (unless you use a jerk response instead of a nice one - then its valid)

however - icons or colored text make it easier to relax and not worry for a lot of people, so its probably a better solution for majority.

here's an idea of a toggle that I have. at the beginning of the game - you get to chose whether you want colored text to be displayed? or everything show up in uniform color, so that you don't ever know which response gives you which score points, until after you chose it. this of course will require much better paraphrasing, but its already required IMO. with this sort of toggle - those who want to know what to avoid from the start - get their wish. and those who want to roleplay the unknown? get their wish and I don't think it would be difficult to implement either.

For me, only reason I'm liking the option/backup option of coloured text is for when I'm playing drunk and most likely to not be able to coherently process the written word but will remember 'hit the greeeeeeen....'.