6696 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

Urgh. Page-amount took yet a rise while I was at work. It seems like people are stating the same things time and time again, though.

So what we have are basicly 2 sides that disagrees.

Some want it, some don't.

Irrespective of your opinions on the subject the above is true, and starting to hurl insults at the other side or claiming that they are biggots of some sort isn't going to do the actual debate much good.

anyways, for the sake of keeping the spirit of the thread alive, let me add that:

We should now as a matter of continuation with the token minority catering get the following tokens as well included:

- Token devoted Muslim guy/girl (Who doesn't apreciate homosexuals, so should give some interesting conversations and reactions in the game)
- Token devoted Christian guy/girl (Doesn't apreciate homosexuals either. Could be written to be Ashley, though, if they expanded on that angle of her)
- Token Eastern european/russian guy/girl (They're a former superpower, yet they aren't represented at all in the game)
- Token Latino guy/girl (Could be comboed with the Christian token, to save resources I guess)
- Token blind guy/girl (Don't want to belittle this minority either. Could get a Varren as their companionguide!)
- Token deaf guy/girl (Gives the player the chance to experience sign language as a communication. Should be good for immersion.)
- Token person in a wheelchair (No, Joker doesn't count as he is perfectly able to move about and suffer falls, despite the claims of his condition. This should also mean the inclusion of a specific toilet just for this token person, ofc. More graphic immersion!)

And probably more that I forgot. I don't think these groups deserve any less respect than homosexuals, so I fully expect these to be represented as well in the next game. If not, I will just asume it is because the developers are careless and biggoted towards any group they don't include in the game (yes, this was an ironic comment, hopefully showcasing my opinion of some of the arguments used by those claiming you had to be homophobic to disagree with the random inclusion of s/s sex in ME3)

And finally, let's get some kind of snazzy wording for 'the cause' the original thread was about...

How about....

Support SAFNE sex! <3
No rewritting of sexual orientation of established characters!


There. That should do it... :innocent:

[Siansonea]

RetroActiv wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

The main point for me that I was argueing is that it adds something positive for "everyone" which simply isn't true. It's only a possitive addition for those who want it. 

But it's not a negative either, because it doesn't remove anything for anyone.

Which would make it neutral at best. I wasn't arguing that it's negative for everyone but simply disagreeing with the arguement that it's a  "positive" addition for everyone because is simply isn't. For a lot of people it's a useless addition that will add nothing to their gaming experience. 

I see what you're saying, but it is a benefit to you even if you couldn't care less about the options. For instance, in ME2, I had zero interest in the Garrus, Tali, and Thane romance options, but a lot of other players LOVED those and were eagerly anticipating their inclusion and very active in the community discussing the game. If those options weren't there, it's possible that quite a few players would have been significantly less enthusiastic about the game, less active in the community, and less likely to buy follow-up games or DLC. But because those options were there, BioWare's bottom line is probably greatly improved. More money for BioWare in this case translates into more resources to devote to the game in general. And my ability to choose Miranda over Jack and Tali is more meaningful and enjoyable to me than just choosing between Miranda and Jack, if that makes sense.

[Clonedzero]

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

[Erani]

@Salsa, if you read the last few pages, you'll notice that no one is throwing insults or calling anyone a bigot. Please, things have gotten neutral around here, no need to spice things up.

Retro and the rest of us are politely discussing our views.

Your post is clearly off-topic, as this thread is meant to discuss same-sex in ME3 and not desired squad-members ethnic or religious background or whatnot.

Modifié par Erani, 19 mai 2011 - 05:59 .

[TheMarshal]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Urgh. Page-amount took yet a rise while I was at work. It seems like people are stating the same things time and time again, though.

So what we have are basicly 2 sides that disagrees.

Some want it, some don't.

Irrespective of your opinions on the subject the above is true, and starting to hurl insults at the other side or claiming that they are biggots of some sort isn't going to do the actual debate much good.

anyways, for the sake of keeping the spirit of the thread alive, let me add that:

We should now as a matter of continuation with the token minority catering get the following tokens as well included:

- Token devoted Muslim guy/girl (Who doesn't apreciate homosexuals, so should give some interesting conversations and reactions in the game)
- Token devoted Christian guy/girl (Doesn't apreciate homosexuals either. Could be written to be Ashley, though, if they expanded on that angle of her)
- Token Eastern european/russian guy/girl (They're a former superpower, yet they aren't represented at all in the game)
- Token Latino guy/girl (Could be comboed with the Christian token, to save resources I guess)
- Token blind guy/girl (Don't want to belittle this minority either. Could get a Varren as their companionguide!)
- Token deaf guy/girl (Gives the player the chance to experience sign language as a communication. Should be good for immersion.)
- Token person in a wheelchair (No, Joker doesn't count as he is perfectly able to move about and suffer falls, despite the claims of his condition. This should also mean the inclusion of a specific toilet just for this token person, ofc. More graphic immersion!)

And probably more that I forgot. I don't think these groups deserve any less respect than homosexuals, so I fully expect these to be represented as well in the next game. If not, I will just asume it is because the developers are careless and biggoted towards any group they don't include in the game (yes, this was an ironic comment, hopefully showcasing my opinion of some of the arguments used by those claiming you had to be homophobic to disagree with the random inclusion of s/s sex in ME3)

And finally, let's get some kind of snazzy wording for 'the cause' the original thread was about...

How about....

Support SAFNE sex! <3
No rewritting of sexual orientation of established characters!


There. That should do it... :innocent:

Hurray for slippery slope arguments!  It's been a while since I've seen one of these!

[Servo to the bitter end]

SalsaDMA wrote...

*Snip*
[/b]No rewritting of sexual orientation of established characters!


There. That should do it... :innocent:

You're free to start a thread for each of those things - they're outside the scope of this topic. However, I'd say the discussion has primarily shifted to Shepard. And Shepard has been established as being straight/bi/gay.

Just about everyone is open to various ways of implementing it, including both re-writes of existing characters, and new characters. Either way, I'm confident Bioware would do it well. In spite of all of that - it's not a rewrite for Shepard. S/he's been either/or since the first game.

And "bigot" has one "g."

[Siansonea]

SalsaDMA wrote...


Urgh. Page-amount took yet a rise while I was at work. It seems like people are stating the same things time and time again, though.


So what we have are basicly 2 sides that disagrees. 


Some want it, some don't.


Irrespective of your opinions on the subject the above is true, and starting to hurl insults at the other side or claiming that they are biggots of some sort isn't going to do the actual debate much good.


anyways, for the sake of keeping the spirit of the thread alive, let me add that:


We should now as a matter of continuation with the token minority catering get the following tokens as well included:


- Token devoted Muslim guy/girl (Who doesn't apreciate homosexuals, so should give some interesting conversations and reactions in the game)
- Token devoted Christian guy/girl (Doesn't apreciate homosexuals either. Could be written to be Ashley, though, if they expanded on that angle of her)
- Token Eastern european/russian guy/girl (They're a former superpower, yet they aren't represented at all in the game)
- Token Latino guy/girl (Could be comboed with the Christian token, to save resources I guess)
- Token blind guy/girl (Don't want to belittle this minority either. Could get a Varren as their companionguide!)
- Token deaf guy/girl (Gives the player the chance to experience sign language as a communication. Should be good for immersion.)
- Token person in a wheelchair (No, Joker doesn't count as he is perfectly able to move about and suffer falls, despite the claims of his condition. This should also mean the inclusion of a specific toilet just for this token person, ofc. More graphic immersion!)


And probably more that I forgot. I don't think these groups deserve any less respect than homosexuals, so I fully expect these to be represented as well in the next game. If not, I will just asume it is because the developers are careless and biggoted towards any group they don't include in the game (yes, this was an ironic comment, hopefully showcasing my opinion of some of the arguments used by those claiming you had to be homophobic to disagree with the random inclusion of s/s sex in ME3)


And finally, let's get some kind of snazzy wording for 'the cause' the original thread was about...


How about....


Support [color=#00ff00">SANE sex! webkit-fake-url://8DB8290E-E0AF-40BD-AF89-F5B611CB38A6/heart.png
No rewritting of sexual orientation of established characters! webkit-fake-url://8DB8290E-E0AF-40BD-AF89-F5B611CB38A6/love.png




There. That should do it... webkit-fake-url://8DB8290E-E0AF-40BD-AF89-F5B611CB38A6/angel.png

There is only one G in bigot.


And your sarcastic post adds nothing of value to the discussion. These options aren't harming you in any way, and yet you're angry that other players are getting options they want. Your argument is basically that it's okay to exclude content you don't want, even if other people want it, simply because you don't want it. Okay, thanks for playing.


But hey, if BioWare wants to throw in obnoxious religious characters to appease that demographic, that's okay with me. I would take great pleasure in having my Shepards tell them to GTFO. Just so long as I don't accidentally say nice things to them, I don't want to ninja-appease.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 19 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[RetroActiv]

Siansonea II wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

The main point for me that I was argueing is that it adds something positive for "everyone" which simply isn't true. It's only a possitive addition for those who want it. 

But it's not a negative either, because it doesn't remove anything for anyone.

Which would make it neutral at best. I wasn't arguing that it's negative for everyone but simply disagreeing with the arguement that it's a  "positive" addition for everyone because is simply isn't. For a lot of people it's a useless addition that will add nothing to their gaming experience. 

I see what you're saying, but it is a benefit to you even if you couldn't care less about the options. For instance, in ME2, I had zero interest in the Garrus, Tali, and Thane romance options, but a lot of other players LOVED those and were eagerly anticipating their inclusion and very active in the community discussing the game. If those options weren't there, it's possible that quite a few players would have been significantly less enthusiastic about the game, less active in the community, and less likely to buy follow-up games or DLC. But because those options were there, BioWare's bottom line is probably greatly improved. More money for BioWare in this case translates into more resources to devote to the game in general. And my ability to choose Miranda over Jack and Tali is more meaningful and enjoyable to me than just choosing between Miranda and Jack, if that makes sense.

You're really reallly reaching but it just isn't there. It's a good thing only for those who want it included and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't support it to agree with the arguement that it it's a "possitive" addition for them.

Modifié par RetroActiv, 19 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[Centauri2002]

The argument that just because one feature is included, a whole bunch should be included is not relevant to this thread. This topic is about same sex romances in Mass Effect 3 so let's stick to that. And, no, just because same sex romances are added to the game doesn't mean something else should be, it just means it could be. If you want to see more features in the game, start your own petition and/or thread. You may even get support from some people here.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

We're discussing various ways it might be implemented. That's one of several options, and you're free to disagree with it. I understand where you're coming from with that concern, even if I don't share it in every case. In the end, only the devs know how they're gonna do it.

It's not a rewrite for Shepard though - that's the frustrating thing that everyone keeps bringing up. It's been an option for Shepard since day one. So I'm not calling anyone a bigot - they're just not very observant in this case.

[Siansonea]

RetroActiv wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

*snip*

Which would make it neutral at best. I wasn't arguing that it's negative for everyone but simply disagreeing with the arguement that it's a  "positive" addition for everyone because is simply isn't. For a lot of people it's a useless addition that will add nothing to their gaming experience. 

I see what you're saying, but it is a benefit to you even if you couldn't care less about the options. For instance, in ME2, I had zero interest in the Garrus, Tali, and Thane romance options, but a lot of other players LOVED those and were eagerly anticipating their inclusion and very active in the community discussing the game. If those options weren't there, it's possible that quite a few players would have been significantly less enthusiastic about the game, less active in the community, and less likely to buy follow-up games or DLC. But because those options were there, BioWare's bottom line is probably greatly improved. More money for BioWare in this case translates into more resources to devote to the game in general. And my ability to choose Miranda over Jack and Tali is more meaningful and enjoyable to me than just choosing between Miranda and Jack, if that makes sense.

You're really reallly reaching but it just isn't there. It's a good thing only for those who want it included and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't support it to agree with the arguement that it it's a "possitive" addition for them.

Okay, agree to disagree then. I think options that benefit other players indirectly benefit me, but that's just my personal opinion.

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

Nobody is labeling the people who don't want existing characters rewritten as bigots.

We label some of the people who say they don't want exisiting characters rewritten while simultaneously being assholes about it as bigots, but in that case the actual content of the opinion is incidental to the inflammatory tone and motivation behind it.

Modifié par ipgd, 19 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

RetroActiv wrote...

You're really reallly reaching but it just isn't there. It's a good thing only for those who want it included and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't support it to agree with the arguement that it it's a "possitive" addition for them.

I'll take "neutral" then. I just have a hard time seeing why it matters at all, if it adds a ton of positive content for a pretty big group of players while removing nothing for those who don't care or don't want it.

[Erani]

@Retro, I get what you mean but even though that specific content (s/s romances in this case) may not be a positive addition for them, overall it is a positive addition to the game. I believe that was the original point. If a game is richer, with more options, well developed, what does it matter if some X content is not to my liking? I can just avoid it, and enjoy the content I want.
After all, I like it if everyone is happy and get something they want.

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

I don't know, I think if you're clear in your specific objections, and they're based on rational concepts, then people are generally responsive in a fair way. Of course if you can't communicate those ideas effectively or are frequently misunderstood, it's possible that your communication style is just poor writing.

Or, if you're trying to cloak an intolerant attitude with false logic, you can run into some rather unsupportive sentiments as well. It's all situational.

[SalsaDMA]

Thanks for proving my points guys.

edit: and girls, ofc

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 19 mai 2011 - 06:08 .

[Centauri2002]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Thanks for proving my points guys.

edit: and girls, ofc

The fact that we recognise what is on topic and what isn't, I assume you mean?

[AdmiralCheez]

I really, really hope the new token human female LI is exclusively lesbian. Just for fun.

[Clonedzero]

TommyServo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

We're discussing various ways it might be implemented. That's one of several options, and you're free to disagree with it. I understand where you're coming from with that concern, even if I don't share it in every case. In the end, only the devs know how they're gonna do it.

It's not a rewrite for Shepard though - that's the frustrating thing that everyone keeps bringing up. It's been an option for Shepard since day one. So I'm not calling anyone a bigot - they're just not very observant in this case.

it hasnt been an option for shepard since day one. thats kinda why them adding it in is such a big deal...

sure you could refuse to romance female characters as a male shepard and say shepard is gay but its not really the case. i mean i can play a zelda game and pretend Link is gay, doesnt make it true.

now you can be gay shepard.  you can't say it was an option if it wasn't in either mass effect at all so far, sure you can pretend but that doesnt make it an actual option. lets not kid ourselves here lol. if its not in the game its not an option of the game.

[Erani]

@Admiral you just messing with us eh? LOL

[thatguy212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I really, really hope the new token human female LI is exclusively lesbian. Just for fun.

They would only be bisexual if you count alternate universes

[Aniki_21]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Thanks for proving my points guys.

edit: and girls, ofc

If you don't support S/S romances you are a bigot. Plain and simple. It's just like if you didn't want Jacob in the game because you don't like black people. It's EXACTLY the same thing. 

[Siansonea]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Thanks for proving my points guys.

edit: and girls, ofc

You didn't need any help proving your point, your thoughts and motivations on this subject are abundantly clear. I don't think anyone at BioWare is under any illusions about what transpires in this or any other thread. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

now you can be gay shepard.  you can't say it was an option if it wasn't in either mass effect at all so far, sure you can pretend but that doesnt make it an actual option. lets not kid ourselves here lol. if its not in the game its not an option of the game.

Didn't have biotic charge, combat drones, the Revenant in ME1, either.

RETCON!

[Da Mecca]

Didn't have heatsinks either.

But that's not a joke that really is a retcon.