6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

way to completely miss the point rofl.
i wasnt saying it was wrong. wasn't saying its bad to add it in ME3. im saying it simply wasn't an actual option in the game. i didnt add in opinion at all to that post. good job projecting though.

And my point was that just because an option wasn't available in an earlier installment doesn't mean it can't be added later.  That's all.  And really, nothing wrong with "playing pretend" as you call it, since that's the point behind roleplay.

Thought I'd say "retcon" because all the cool kids are doing it.

wasnt saying there was anything wrong with roleplaying or pretending. i do it for most of my playthroughs i try to get into character and everything. its fun.

wasn't saying it shouldnt have been added either.

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

[Siona]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siona wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

I don't know, I think if you're clear in your specific objections, and they're based on rational concepts, then people are generally responsive in a fair way. Of course if you can't communicate those ideas effectively or are frequently misunderstood, it's possible that your communication style is just poor writing.

Or, if you're trying to cloak an intolerant attitude with false logic, you can run into some rather unsupportive sentiments as well. It's all situational.

you know, all ive said was i didnt want established characters rewritten and retcons and all you've done is give me a hard time and acted like a douche. its kind of annoying.

and yes. a character suddenly revealing that they're bi/gay is stupid and silly. its stupid and silly when it happens in real life too.  also without an option to act disgusted and hate themf or it, them hiding it makes no sense, if the entire reason they were hiding it was because people arent accepting of it still, then people should still have the option to not accept it because if youre just like "oh ok" then it makes the entire reveal kinda pointless and stupid. as it is in real life.

so seriously, please for the love of god. get off your high horse. only backwards ass hicks and cavedwellers care if you're bi/gay. everyone else is pretty apethetic towards it, i know i am.

im sorry if i care more about fictional characters being changed for no real important reason other to shut up some angsty fans. its unnecessary and silly. they can add in new characters to fill that void. thats all.

There's no need to get snippy.

As for the calls of 'retcon', what retcon? Did we *ever* have a single character stand up and scream to the heavens 'I AM ONLY STRAIGHT AND WILL ONLY EVER DESIRE ____'? No? Yeah.

again. the SINGLE WORST ARGUEMENT EVER.

why would anyone on the crew hide that from shepard for the entire series? its silly and stupid.  either its widely accepted in teh ME universe (which is the most logical conclusion) so they'd have no reason to hide it. or its still shunned by bigots and you'd have to give the option to the player to be a bigot which i guess you'd hate (before you say anything, no i wouldnt react that way lol).

reminds me of when my old highschool friend got super emotional and came out to me, and i reacted with "ok, cool, i think we better hurry or we're gonna be late to meet up with jimmy and sarah" then he got all mad cus i didnt care. which i dunno i dont understand, i didnt think it was a big deal.

them adding that to a character adds a big story bit to them as they'd have to include why'd they'd hide that from shepard all thsi time and blah blah, why have some stupid melo-dramatic coming out plot-line when you could have something actually interesting instead and keep the characters the way they are? its completely unnecessary.

Why do they have to state it at all though? Straight characters don't have to run around telling every single person that they are straight, it's assumed, so I don't see why gay characters (especially nearly 200 years in the future) would feel the need to just throw it out there.

And if we're still on the topic of retcon, what about the fact that if you play PC you can still access the almost entirely recorded romance for maleShep/Kaidan or femaleShep/Ashley. It's right there, in the game, and was a heartbeat away from being there on release. I think the fact that this has been there from the start of the game does make a big difference; it was going to be canon but for the decision of a few execs who thought their supposedly majority of a straight fanboy base couldn't handle it.

[Xsause]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siona wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot.

they're the most intolerant ones here.

I don't know, I think if you're clear in your specific objections, and they're based on rational concepts, then people are generally responsive in a fair way. Of course if you can't communicate those ideas effectively or are frequently misunderstood, it's possible that your communication style is just poor writing.

Or, if you're trying to cloak an intolerant attitude with false logic, you can run into some rather unsupportive sentiments as well. It's all situational.

you know, all ive said was i didnt want established characters rewritten and retcons and all you've done is give me a hard time and acted like a douche. its kind of annoying.

and yes. a character suddenly revealing that they're bi/gay is stupid and silly. its stupid and silly when it happens in real life too.  also without an option to act disgusted and hate themf or it, them hiding it makes no sense, if the entire reason they were hiding it was because people arent accepting of it still, then people should still have the option to not accept it because if youre just like "oh ok" then it makes the entire reveal kinda pointless and stupid. as it is in real life.

so seriously, please for the love of god. get off your high horse. only backwards ass hicks and cavedwellers care if you're bi/gay. everyone else is pretty apethetic towards it, i know i am.

im sorry if i care more about fictional characters being changed for no real important reason other to shut up some angsty fans. its unnecessary and silly. they can add in new characters to fill that void. thats all.

There's no need to get snippy.

As for the calls of 'retcon', what retcon? Did we *ever* have a single character stand up and scream to the heavens 'I AM ONLY STRAIGHT AND WILL ONLY EVER DESIRE ____'? No? Yeah.

again. the SINGLE WORST ARGUEMENT EVER.

why would anyone on the crew hide that from shepard for the entire series? its silly and stupid.  either its widely accepted in teh ME universe (which is the most logical conclusion) so they'd have no reason to hide it. or its still shunned by bigots and you'd have to give the option to the player to be a bigot which i guess you'd hate (before you say anything, no i wouldnt react that way lol).

reminds me of when my old highschool friend got super emotional and came out to me, and i reacted with "ok, cool, i think we better hurry or we're gonna be late to meet up with jimmy and sarah" then he got all mad cus i didnt care. which i dunno i dont understand, i didnt think it was a big deal.

them adding that to a character adds a big story bit to them as they'd have to include why'd they'd hide that from shepard all thsi time and blah blah, why have some stupid melo-dramatic coming out plot-line when you could have something actually interesting instead and keep the characters the way they are? its completely unnecessary.

People can be gay or bi without saying they are. In fact, plenty of peopletend to withhold that bit of information when the situation doesn't call for it.

And changing sexuality does not automatically mean that their personality does a 180!

Modifié par Xsause, 19 mai 2011 - 06:34 .

[Centauri2002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Clonedzero: Not everybody runs around like I do openly declaring their sexuality.

GUYS GUYS EVERYBODY I AM A BISEXUAL ISN'T THAT COOL?!

Seriously, with a lot of characters, the topic was never brought up. It'd be like claiming that it's impossible for Shepard to like strawberry ice cream because only chocolate was available in ME1.

But Shepard doesn't like strawberry icecream! It's far too fruity for him! 

[RetroActiv]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

.....seriously?

Kind of, yeah.

Just replace "gay" with "Muslim," "black," or "vegetarian."

Person One: I would like to be able to make Shepard black in ME3.
Person Two: Nooooo that isn't Shepard's character, would disrupt continuity, and I find it offensive!

Don't know of any Muslims or vegetarians in the game but I guess it doesn't really matter. Default shepard is a white male as it is always the case e.g. default Hawke so there is no problem there. Besidesit  really isn't the same though. Changing your personal character's color palatte is a lot less significant than the specific inclusion of a NPC party members to facilitate homosexual romance arcs. 

Modifié par RetroActiv, 19 mai 2011 - 06:37 .

[Valcutio]

Golden Owl wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

I agree with the other gamers.  I'm not preordering the game now because if Ash/Kaidan are bi, I'm not buying it and two copies come into this home all the time.  Those two copies won't be in my home.  I may be of the small proportion on this forum but I am in the large proportion of the gaming market.  New characters bi is fine, established characters bi is not and also the Kaidan/Horizon/after Horizon writing is poor and lazy.  It was written for femShep and they didn't bother to change it for manShep.  It's almost exactly what Ashley does/says if she is on Horizon.  That is poor writing no matter what the supporters say.  Bioware expected that male gamers would save Ashley and female gamers would save Kaidan.  Plain and simple.

People who support bi/gay Kaidan can suck it and go ahead and bash me.  I really don't care.  I'm only posting because my son brought this to my attention. 

From one mother to another...What the!!!????.....You do know your son is taking life time cues from you?

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Modifié par Valcutio, 19 mai 2011 - 06:36 .

[AngelicMachinery]

centauri2002 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Clonedzero: Not everybody runs around like I do openly declaring their sexuality.

GUYS GUYS EVERYBODY I AM A BISEXUAL ISN'T THAT COOL?!

Seriously, with a lot of characters, the topic was never brought up. It'd be like claiming that it's impossible for Shepard to like strawberry ice cream because only chocolate was available in ME1.

But Shepard doesn't like strawberry icecream! It's far too fruity for him! 

Shepherd only eats rock flavored ice cream,  it's the only flavor bad ass enough for her.

[Polliot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

.....seriously?

Kind of, yeah.

Just replace "gay" with "Muslim," "black," or "vegetarian."

Person One: I would like to be able to make Shepard black in ME3.
Person Two: Nooooo that isn't Shepard's character, would disrupt continuity, and I find it offensive!

Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...


yeah its disgusting how if you think rewriting existing characters is wrong that the people in this thread label you a bigot. 


they're the most intolerant ones here.

I don't know, I think if you're clear in your specific objections, and they're based on rational concepts, then people are generally responsive in a fair way. Of course if you can't communicate those ideas effectively or are frequently misunderstood, it's possible that your communication style is just poor writing. 


Or, if you're trying to cloak an intolerant attitude with false logic, you can run into some rather unsupportive sentiments as well. It's all situational.

you know, all ive said was i didnt want established characters rewritten and retcons and all you've done is give me a hard time and acted like a douche. its kind of annoying.


and yes. a character suddenly revealing that they're bi/gay is stupid and silly. its stupid and silly when it happens in real life too.  also without an option to act disgusted and hate themf or it, them hiding it makes no sense, if the entire reason they were hiding it was because people arent accepting of it still, then people should still have the option to not accept it because if youre just like "oh ok" then it makes the entire reveal kinda pointless and stupid. as it is in real life.


so seriously, please for the love of god. get off your high horse. only backwards ass hicks and cavedwellers care if you're bi/gay. everyone else is pretty apethetic towards it, i know i am. 


im sorry if i care more about fictional characters being changed for no real important reason other to shut up some angsty fans. its unnecessary and silly. they can add in new characters to fill that void. thats all.

I've said time and again that your argument would only be valid if ALL SHEPARDS WERE SUDDENLY GAY. And that's not the case. Someone else playing a Gay Shepard doesn't affect your game in any way, except in your mind. You're so squicked out by the idea that somebody else's Shepard might be gay that you'll just keep ramming that point home no matter how many times we point to the obvious flaws in your logic. Why do you care so much? You say you're apathetic, but you sound pretty passionate about it to me.


As far as I know, all players have the option of "not accepting" Gay Shepard, simply by playing as Straight Shepard. Seriously, how is that not self-evident?


Aaaand I'll get off my high horse when you stop beating your dead horse. Well, until someone else starts beating it, that is. When it comes to the Balrog of Intolerance I will always be the Gandalf of Reason saying you...shall not...PASS!

[MACharlie1]

Polliot wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

.....seriously?

Kind of, yeah.

Just replace "gay" with "Muslim," "black," or "vegetarian."

Person One: I would like to be able to make Shepard black in ME3.
Person Two: Nooooo that isn't Shepard's character, would disrupt continuity, and I find it offensive!

Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

Then Muslim or Vegetarian - both times Shepard doesn't get the oppertunity to express these things. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

wasnt saying there was anything wrong with roleplaying or pretending. i do it for most of my playthroughs i try to get into character and everything. its fun.

wasn't saying it shouldnt have been added either.

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

It WAS an option, however, for FemShep to be gay.  Players did the best they could with this double-standard in hope that it would be corrected in the future.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

[ipgd]

and you'd have to give the option to the player to be a bigot which i guess you'd hate (before you say anything, no i wouldnt react that way lol).

I would 100% support roleplaying options that allow Shepard to express homophobic sentiments. Shepard can already express racist/xenophobic sentiments and I have no problem with that because I have no fear that I will turn into a racist/xenophobe just by reading its paraphrase on the wheel and then not choosing it.

Still, SHEPARD doesn't have to be homophobic for someone to be afraid that people would react negatively to that character "coming out". There's something called "irrational fear". Not that there even needs to be a "coming out" plot, since it can easily be explained just by "you never asked". Which Shepard never does.

[Siona]

Valcutio wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

I agree with the other gamers.  I'm not preordering the game now because if Ash/Kaidan are bi, I'm not buying it and two copies come into this home all the time.  Those two copies won't be in my home.  I may be of the small proportion on this forum but I am in the large proportion of the gaming market.  New characters bi is fine, established characters bi is not and also the Kaidan/Horizon/after Horizon writing is poor and lazy.  It was written for femShep and they didn't bother to change it for manShep.  It's almost exactly what Ashley does/says if she is on Horizon.  That is poor writing no matter what the supporters say.  Bioware expected that male gamers would save Ashley and female gamers would save Kaidan.  Plain and simple.

People who support bi/gay Kaidan can suck it and go ahead and bash me.  I really don't care.  I'm only posting because my son brought this to my attention. 

From one mother to another...What the!!!????.....You do know your son is taking life time cues from you?

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality are rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

This is ridiculous. Does this mean I could point to Snoop Dogg, Will Smith or Bill Cosby and say "See, all black people act exactly like this!". No, because that's racist as hell, and believing that someone's personality is ruled by their sexuality is just as bad. Gay people can be just as different in personality as any other person on the planet. Seriously.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Siansonea II wrote...When it comes to the Balrog of Intolerance I will always be the Gandalf of Reason saying you...shall not...PASS!

Thaaaaat looks like a sig.

[Ryzaki]

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

Do we have to go over the sexual orientation =/= actually having sex thing again? 

[Centauri2002]

Valcutio wrote...

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Excuse me? Are you insinuating my parents are poor because they brought me up to be open minded and accepting? 

[Erani]

Valcutio wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

After discussing this with other gamers, I'm wondering if this is just the first step that ME3 is taking on the road to failure that DA2 took. I've tried to stay optimistic about Bioware but announcements that the ME series is trying to be like the DA series is just bad.

With that being said, If Bioware is Hellbent on doing this then they need to leave current characters alone and introduce new characters to appease the small percentage of ppl that want this.

I agree with the other gamers.  I'm not preordering the game now because if Ash/Kaidan are bi, I'm not buying it and two copies come into this home all the time.  Those two copies won't be in my home.  I may be of the small proportion on this forum but I am in the large proportion of the gaming market.  New characters bi is fine, established characters bi is not and also the Kaidan/Horizon/after Horizon writing is poor and lazy.  It was written for femShep and they didn't bother to change it for manShep.  It's almost exactly what Ashley does/says if she is on Horizon.  That is poor writing no matter what the supporters say.  Bioware expected that male gamers would save Ashley and female gamers would save Kaidan.  Plain and simple.

People who support bi/gay Kaidan can suck it and go ahead and bash me.  I really don't care.  I'm only posting because my son brought this to my attention. 

From one mother to another...What the!!!????.....You do know your son is taking life time cues from you?

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

What's that supposed to mean? Unconfuse me.

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Clonedzero: Not everybody runs around like I do openly declaring their sexuality.

GUYS GUYS EVERYBODY I AM A BISEXUAL ISN'T THAT COOL?!

Seriously, with a lot of characters, the topic was never brought up. It'd be like claiming that it's impossible for Shepard to like strawberry ice cream because only chocolate was available in ME1.

But Shepard doesn't like strawberry icecream! It's far too fruity for him! 

I thought he prefered Tupari?

[AdmiralCheez]

RetroActiv wrote...

Don't know of any Muslims or vegetarians in the game but I guess it doesn't really matter. Default shepard is a white male as it is always the case e.g. default Hawke so there is no problem there. Besidesit  really isn't the same though. Changing your personal character's color palatte is a lot less significant than the specific inclusion of a NPC party members to facilitate homosexual romance arcs.

50 years ago, it wouldn't have been a simple color-swap.

And, hell, they have Meer and Hale read the lines for both genders half the time, anyway, so it's just a matter of actually leaving stuff in.  Easy as pie.

[Polliot]

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

Nope.

[MACharlie1]

centauri2002 wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Excuse me? Are you insinuating my parents are poor because they brought me up to be open minded and accepting? 

I found the part about how all gays have the mannerisims to be the offensive part. Huh. 

[Clonedzero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Clonedzero: Not everybody runs around like I do openly declaring their sexuality.

GUYS GUYS EVERYBODY I AM A BISEXUAL ISN'T THAT COOL?!

Seriously, with a lot of characters, the topic was never brought up. It'd be like claiming that it's impossible for Shepard to like strawberry ice cream because only chocolate was available in ME1.

thats a silly analogy.

i know no one randomly declares their sexuality, but if tis not a big deal theres no reason to hide it. if theres no reason to hide it then its extremely likely to pick up on such things. especially if they're attracted to shepard and interested in him/her.

either its not a big deal and thus shepard would most likely be aware of it (i know the sexual orientation of all my friends, none of them would care enough to hide anything like that from each other, its silly and trivial) OR they were hiding from shepard for whatever dumb reason and then you gotta have some lameass melo-dramatic coming out plot-line which is only created to be pure fanservice to an angsty group of fans instead of using those resources to create something new and interesting.

perhaps a new character with an actual interesting storyline thats openly gay/bi? that'd be WAY better.

im saying bioware shouldnt waste time and resources writing silly and pointless sexuallity reveals for characters because they could be using that time for something vastly more interesting.