6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Siona]

Polliot wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

.....seriously?

Kind of, yeah.

Just replace "gay" with "Muslim," "black," or "vegetarian."

Person One: I would like to be able to make Shepard black in ME3.
Person Two: Nooooo that isn't Shepard's character, would disrupt continuity, and I find it offensive!

Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

Seriously. That's the whole appeal of a customizable PC, people. You can be any race, gender, hairstyle, personality... I don't see why it's such a radical idea that, zomg, some people would like to play as a gay Shep either.

[MACharlie1]

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

Nope.

This arguement would be more productive if you backed yourself up. 

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

At what point does a Shepard who does not choose any romance options define his sexuality? What non-metagame evidence is there that a celibate Shepard has an overt and defined interest in women and disinterest in men that the existence of male love interests in ME3 would be contradicting?

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

[SalsaDMA]

RetroActiv wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

.....seriously?

Kind of, yeah.

Just replace "gay" with "Muslim," "black," or "vegetarian."

Person One: I would like to be able to make Shepard black in ME3.
Person Two: Nooooo that isn't Shepard's character, would disrupt continuity, and I find it offensive!

Don't know of any Muslims or vegetarians in the game but I guess it doesn't really matter. Default shepard is a white male as it is always the case e.g. default Hawke so there is no problem there. Besidesit  really isn't the same though. Changing your personal character's color palatte is a lot less significant than the specific inclusion of a NPC party members to facilitate homosexual romance arcs. 

Eh... A persons religion isn't what colour his skin is, if that was what you were implying?
A devoted religious person would certainly be noticable to be so, if nothing else for what kind of dialogue optinos there should be possible.

Ashley is the only religious human person I think we have on the squad, so far.

[jeweledleah]

ipgd wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

now you can be gay shepard.  you can't say it was an option if it wasn't in either mass effect at all so far, sure you can pretend but that doesnt make it an actual option. lets not kid ourselves here lol. if its not in the game its not an option of the game.

Didn't have biotic charge, combat drones, the Revenant in ME1, either.

RETCON!

actualy ... it is.  as are heat clips, heavy armor for adept Shepards, losing your ability to carry all weapons (which is being added back in, at least) and a slew of other things.

not all retcons are bad, however, it doesn't make them any less retcony

Again, "retcon" does not mean "any change I don't like". For something to be a retcon, it has to directly contradict previously established facts of the continuity. Heat clips, for example, are not a retcon, because they do not contradict the existence of clipless guns; it is explained directly within the game why heat clips are now being used when they were not previously, and it does not suggest that the guns in ME1 were using heat clips all long. It's a gameplay motivated change, clearly, but not all changes are retcons. For a change to be a retcon it has to deliberately contradict and erase the existence of a previously established fact. Keyword: RETROACTIVE.


And yes, this is an entirely semantic argument but retcon is still a useful word that would benefit from being used correctly instead of being bandied about inappropriately until it becomes entirely meaningless.

my shepards picks up a gun and just KNOWS that it has no heatclip, even though for the entirety of the previous game she hasn't used a heatclip ones and then she died and was, you know uncontious untill waking up at Lazarus.  and yet she wakes up and just knows. not to mention - said gun refuses to work without heatclip... at all.  my adept managed to somehow forget how to use half her biotic abilities and discovered couple of new ones. and she now wears heavy armor.  even though back in ME1 - she coudln't. my vanguard didn't have a change ability, but now she does... but she forgot how to use throw.. or warp.  and its never explained. its just assumed that we always knew, always did things that way.

retcons do not necessarily erase established facts.  sometimes they do.  sometimes they add in facts.  sometimes they simply change them.  retroactive - meaning the change was done after the story was already on the way.

often - said retcons are beneficial.  often - they make the story and/or better.  sometimes they make it worse.  but they are... still.... retcons.

[AdmiralCheez]

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

*cough*

[Siona]

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

Nope.

I'm sorry, what? I couldn't hear you over the sound of female Shepard and Liara making out.

[Centauri2002]

MACharlie1 wrote...
I found the part about how all gays have the mannerisims to be the offensive part. Huh. 

I've heard that so often I think I'm numb to it now. >.>

[ADLegend21]

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...


Wrong,since Shepard was able to be black since ME1.

And gay. Also bi.

Nope.

yeah she could be. You seem to be forgetting that shepard cna be a woman.

[Polliot]

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

I've said time and again that your argument would only be valid if ALL SHEPARDS WERE SUDDENLY GAY. And that's not the case. Someone else playing a Gay Shepard doesn't affect your game in any way, except in your mind. You're so squicked out by the idea that somebody else's Shepard might be gay that you'll just keep ramming that point home no matter how many times we point to the obvious flaws in your logic. Why do you care so much? You say you're apathetic, but you sound pretty passionate about it to me.


As far as I know, all players have the option of "not accepting" Gay Shepard, simply by playing as Straight Shepard. Seriously, how is that not self-evident?


Aaaand I'll get off my high horse when you stop beating your dead horse. Well, until someone else starts beating it, that is. When it comes to the Balrog of Intolerance I will always be the Gandalf of Reason saying you...shall not...PASS!

im not talking about shepard. did you even read my posts?
i dont care if your shepard is gay, why would i care about that? i never once said i didnt want shepard to be able to be gay. all i said was that it wasnt an in game option in ME1 and 2. please actually read peoples posts before projecting what you want the posts to say on it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Polliot wrote...

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

*ahem*

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 19 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[ADLegend21]

Anyway on the topic again:

wouldn't it be awesome if squadmates could hook up and move around the ship this time? suddenly Tali and Garrus are at the main batter and Shepard walks in and they're flirting? It'd be awesome!!!

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

That justification doesn't hold up. It's invalidated by every FemShep who has romanced Liara or Kelly, or made a pass at Samara.

[Siansonea]

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

*buzzer noise* All ClonedZero has "proven" is that he believes that because Shepard never had the opportunity to say "oh yeah, I like dudes" in ME1 or ME2, somehow he said "I only like chicks" without actually saying it out loud.

[MACharlie1]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

*ahem*

Yesh. What graphic settings did this chap have? Yikes. 

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

either its not a big deal and thus shepard would most likely be aware of it (i know the sexual orientation of all my friends, none of them would care enough to hide anything like that from each other, its silly and trivial) OR they were hiding from shepard for whatever dumb reason and then you gotta have some lameass melo-dramatic coming out plot-line which is only created to be pure fanservice to an angsty group of fans instead of using those resources to create something new and interesting.

I had a friend whom I knew for 5 years before I figured out she was gay. She wasn't closeted, she just wasn't the kind of person who talks about her sex life and I never asked.

[RetroActiv]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

Don't know of any Muslims or vegetarians in the game but I guess it doesn't really matter. Default shepard is a white male as it is always the case e.g. default Hawke so there is no problem there. Besidesit  really isn't the same though. Changing your personal character's color palatte is a lot less significant than the specific inclusion of a NPC party members to facilitate homosexual romance arcs.

50 years ago, it wouldn't have been a simple color-swap.

And, hell, they have Meer and Hale read the lines for both genders half the time, anyway, so it's just a matter of actually leaving stuff in.  Easy as pie.

I don't think video games existed 50 years ago but I could be wrong but you get my point i take it that it isn't exactly the same. There is simply a lot more involved with adding spedicfic npc characters and arcs than changing your character's skin tone.

[MACharlie1]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Anyway on the topic again:

wouldn't it be awesome if squadmates could hook up and move around the ship this time? suddenly Tali and Garrus are at the main batter and Shepard walks in and they're flirting? It'd be awesome!!!

Not just flirting but Garrus has her ontop of the control panel.

Shepard: ....what are you doing?!
Garrus and Tali look down at each other
Both: Calibrations. 

[Clonedzero]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

At what point does a Shepard who does not choose any romance options define his sexuality? What non-metagame evidence is there that a celibate Shepard has an overt and defined interest in women and disinterest in men that the existence of male love interests in ME3 would be contradicting?

there isnt any.

i NEVER said shepard shouldnt be able to be gay/bi in ME3, please point me to where i said that.

all ive been saying was they shouldnt have silly sexuality reveals for existing characters (not talking about shepard) because well, its silly and stupid.

[Erani]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Anyway on the topic again:

wouldn't it be awesome if squadmates could hook up and move around the ship this time? suddenly Tali and Garrus are at the main batter and Shepard walks in and they're flirting? It'd be awesome!!!

That'd be cool. It'd add immersion to find squad-members doing their own thing sometimes. Like making use of the bar or kitchen.

[MACharlie1]

Clonedzero wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

At what point does a Shepard who does not choose any romance options define his sexuality? What non-metagame evidence is there that a celibate Shepard has an overt and defined interest in women and disinterest in men that the existence of male love interests in ME3 would be contradicting?

there isnt any.

i NEVER said shepard shouldnt be able to be gay/bi in ME3, please point me to where i said that.

all ive been saying was they shouldnt have silly sexuality reveals for existing characters (not talking about shepard) because well, its silly and stupid.

Who said there has to be a reveal? What if they play it off casually like they knew already? 

[Valcutio]

MACharlie1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Excuse me? Are you insinuating my parents are poor because they brought me up to be open minded and accepting? 

I found the part about how all gays have the mannerisims to be the offensive part. Huh. 

Honestly, people go out of their way to be offended. And if you took the time to read my post, I said there are gay people that aren't obvious.

But are you going to sit there and tell me you didn't know that Kurt from Glee was gay the first episode? Please.

Modifié par Valcutio, 19 mai 2011 - 06:50 .

[Xsause]

Clonedzero wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Clonedzero: Not everybody runs around like I do openly declaring their sexuality.

GUYS GUYS EVERYBODY I AM A BISEXUAL ISN'T THAT COOL?!

Seriously, with a lot of characters, the topic was never brought up. It'd be like claiming that it's impossible for Shepard to like strawberry ice cream because only chocolate was available in ME1.

thats a silly analogy.

i know no one randomly declares their sexuality, but if tis not a big deal theres no reason to hide it. if theres no reason to hide it then its extremely likely to pick up on such things. especially if they're attracted to shepard and interested in him/her.

either its not a big deal and thus shepard would most likely be aware of it (i know the sexual orientation of all my friends, none of them would care enough to hide anything like that from each other, its silly and trivial) OR they were hiding from shepard for whatever dumb reason and then you gotta have some lameass melo-dramatic coming out plot-line which is only created to be pure fanservice to an angsty group of fans instead of using those resources to create something new and interesting.

perhaps a new character with an actual interesting storyline thats openly gay/bi? that'd be WAY better.

im saying bioware shouldnt waste time and resources writing silly and pointless sexuallity reveals for characters because they could be using that time for something vastly more interesting.

Shepard never asked people about their sexuality. As was said earlier, people often withhold that bit of information when the situation doesn't call for it, which it didn't. Liara's interest in a female Shepard was clear because she said it on her own, without being prompted.

There doesn't have to be an in-depth sexuality reveal for anyone. Nor would a lot of time and resources go to it.