6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Servo to the bitter end]

Clonedzero wrote...
im not talking about shepard. did you even read my posts?
i dont care if your shepard is gay, why would i care about that? i never once said i didnt want shepard to be able to be gay. all i said was that it wasnt an in game option in ME1 and 2. please actually read peoples posts before projecting what you want the posts to say on it.

But it was a game option in ME1 and 2 for FemShep. If a playthrough stars Jane Shepard pursuing Liara, John Shepard is nowhere to be found. So it's incorrect to say it was never an option for Shepard.

Yes - it hasn't yet been an option for MaleShepard, because there has never been anyone to return his affection. But the addition of this in the third game is not contradicted in any way in any of the past games. There's no retcon.

[MACharlie1]

Valcutio wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Excuse me? Are you insinuating my parents are poor because they brought me up to be open minded and accepting? 

I found the part about how all gays have the mannerisims to be the offensive part. Huh. 

Honestly, people go out of their way to be offended. And if you took the time to read my post, I said there are gay people that aren't obvious.

But are you going to sit there and tell me you didn't know that Kurt from Glee wasn't gay the first episode? Please.

I don't watch Glee so I don't know who Curt is...but the fact your bringing up the fact means that you believe that at least 50% of the gay population is very..obvious about it. This isn't the case. It only seems that way because it's so extreme that it gets portrayed this way on the media. 

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

*buzzer noise* All ClonedZero has "proven" is that he believes that because Shepard never had the opportunity to say "oh yeah, I like dudes" in ME1 or ME2, somehow he said "I only like chicks" without actually saying it out loud.

i never said shepard was straight, where are you getting that from? seriously lol.
the ONLY thing i said he doesnt have an in-game option to express that. i didnt say he's automatically straight or anything. stop putting words in my mouth and actually READ.

[Centauri2002]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Anyway on the topic again:

wouldn't it be awesome if squadmates could hook up and move around the ship this time? suddenly Tali and Garrus are at the main batter and Shepard walks in and they're flirting? It'd be awesome!!!

It would be! Although I'm sure some people would find it tiresome trying to track down one squad member to find they're not in their usual spot. It'd be like hide and seek aboard the Normandy! Fun times! 

But it would definitely add to the realism if the crew moves around a bit. Even if it was only to a few predetermined locations. And having crew members be able to develop relationships if they're not involved with Shepard would also be a good idea, I think.

[ADLegend21]

Clonedzero wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

all i was saying was it wasnt an ACTUAL option in the first two games, because it wasnt in the first two games. so saying it was in the first two games but just without the ability to romance someone is a flat out lie, thats all. again. no opinions in that statement, just the fact its not in the first two games and thus isnt an actual option in the games. for external personal roleplaying purposes sure but thats not int he game.

At what point does a Shepard who does not choose any romance options define his sexuality? What non-metagame evidence is there that a celibate Shepard has an overt and defined interest in women and disinterest in men that the existence of male love interests in ME3 would be contradicting?

there isnt any.

i NEVER said shepard shouldnt be able to be gay/bi in ME3, please point me to where i said that.

all ive been saying was they shouldnt have silly sexuality reveals for existing characters (not talking about shepard) because well, its silly and stupid.

it's not silly at all. It's a BIG thing to come out of the closet. an NBA exec announced that he ws gay and he's 58. that's means for half a century or so he didn't feel the need to tell anyone he was gay. It's especially hard when oyu're coming ot tos omeone you have feelings for. revelaing feelings is hard enough, but when there'e the extra bit of both parties being the same gender it's even more difficult.

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I've said time and again that your argument would only be valid if ALL SHEPARDS WERE SUDDENLY GAY. And that's not the case. Someone else playing a Gay Shepard doesn't affect your game in any way, except in your mind. You're so squicked out by the idea that somebody else's Shepard might be gay that you'll just keep ramming that point home no matter how many times we point to the obvious flaws in your logic. Why do you care so much? You say you're apathetic, but you sound pretty passionate about it to me.


As far as I know, all players have the option of "not accepting" Gay Shepard, simply by playing as Straight Shepard. Seriously, how is that not self-evident?


Aaaand I'll get off my high horse when you stop beating your dead horse. Well, until someone else starts beating it, that is. When it comes to the Balrog of Intolerance I will always be the Gandalf of Reason saying you...shall not...PASS!

im not talking about shepard. did you even read my posts?
i dont care if your shepard is gay, why would i care about that? i never once said i didnt want shepard to be able to be gay. all i said was that it wasnt an in game option in ME1 and 2. please actually read peoples posts before projecting what you want the posts to say on it.

Well now, then what's the big deal? Lots of things weren't options in the first two games that might be good ideas in ME3, as long as they don't directly contradict something that was unequivocally stated in the first two games. Like if suddenly Shepard was never an Alliance Marine, or never a Spectre, or didn't leave somebody to die on Virmire. Those would be retcons. Those ideas would suck.

And we pretty much know that Gay Male Shepard wasn't an option people could explore within the content of the first two games, though we were free to role-play it anyway. That was kind of the whole point of the Fight For The Love initiative, you know. More options in-game is what we're all about. Well, that and not taking away anybody else's candy in the process.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Clonedzero wrote...
i never said shepard was straight, where are you getting that from? seriously lol.
the ONLY thing i said he doesnt have an in-game option to express that. i didnt say he's automatically straight or anything. stop putting words in my mouth and actually READ.

I might just be on drugs, but I think that's what we've been saying too.

[Centauri2002]

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

[ADLegend21]

centauri2002 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Anyway on the topic again:

wouldn't it be awesome if squadmates could hook up and move around the ship this time? suddenly Tali and Garrus are at the main batter and Shepard walks in and they're flirting? It'd be awesome!!!

It would be! Although I'm sure some people would find it tiresome trying to track down one squad member to find they're not in their usual spot. It'd be like hide and seek aboard the Normandy! Fun times! 

But it would definitely add to the realism if the crew moves around a bit. Even if it was only to a few predetermined locations. And having crew members be able to develop relationships if they're not involved with Shepard would also be a good idea, I think.

well it'd still be the same system as ME2 where every floor tells you who's on it. especially if a squadmate suddely shows up on Deck 1 looking for Shepard.

[Clonedzero]

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

[AdmiralCheez]

TommyServo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
i never said shepard was straight, where are you getting that from? seriously lol.
the ONLY thing i said he doesnt have an in-game option to express that. i didnt say he's automatically straight or anything. stop putting words in my mouth and actually READ.

I might just be on drugs, but I think that's what we've been saying too.

We agree, but let's argue anyway!

God bless the internet.

[MACharlie1]

centauri2002 wrote...

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

And isn't that what's important in life? 

*cue audience awww*

[Servo to the bitter end]

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

A select few very obtuse individuals didn't consider her as such. Anyone with eyes always has.

pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaselet'snotresurrect"asari aren't female"argument

Modifié par TommyServo, 19 mai 2011 - 06:54 .

[Erani]

Valcutio wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

Sounds like he has a good role model. If many of the posters on this forum (and the Bioware devs) had decent parents like her, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Now, as for the posts stating that sexuality has nothing to do with personality? Rubbish. Perez Hilton. Ricky Martin. Chris Colfer (Kurt from Glee). These are people that are obviously gay. How do we know this? Their mannerisms and personality. Are there gay people that aren't obviously gay? Sure. But there's just as many, if not more-so, that are obvious.

Excuse me? Are you insinuating my parents are poor because they brought me up to be open minded and accepting? 

I found the part about how all gays have the mannerisims to be the offensive part. Huh. 

Honestly, people go out of their way to be offended. And if you took the time to read my post, I said there are gay people that aren't obvious.

But are you going to sit there and tell me you didn't know that Kurt from Glee was gay the first episode? Please.

I'm sorta more interested in th part about not having decent parents? If I could just get clarification on that.

[ipgd]

RetroActiv wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

Don't know of any Muslims or vegetarians in the game but I guess it doesn't really matter. Default shepard is a white male as it is always the case e.g. default Hawke so there is no problem there. Besidesit  really isn't the same though. Changing your personal character's color palatte is a lot less significant than the specific inclusion of a NPC party members to facilitate homosexual romance arcs.

50 years ago, it wouldn't have been a simple color-swap.

And, hell, they have Meer and Hale read the lines for both genders half the time, anyway, so it's just a matter of actually leaving stuff in.  Easy as pie.

I don't think video games existed 50 years ago but I could be wrong but you get my point i take it that it isn't exactly the same. There is simply a lot more involved with adding spedicfic npc characters and arcs than changing your character's skin tone.

It's certainly a lot less resource intensive than recording lines for female Shepard and creating love interests exclusive to her when she is only used by 20% of the players who play Mass Effect, but I'm sure you wouldn't advocate her removal even if it would mean more things relevant to that 80% of the players.

[Polliot]

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Nope.

Then feel free to elaborate. I did on the previous page, as have many other posters across this and other threads.

Since this thread started,it was elaborated a thousand times. Clonedzero did it in many of his posts.

That justification doesn't hold up. It's invalidated by every FemShep who has romanced Liara or Kelly, or made a pass at Samara.

I was reffering to male Shep. Sure,it's a double standard,but BioWare made it that way. People usually say how BioWare made M/M lines for previous games,thinking that it helps their case. But that only proves they thought about it when making ME1,but decided not to do it.And some people complained.
When ME2 came,they decided not to put it there AGAIN.

If you can't see that it's an obvious fanservice and that it indeed breaks continuity,then you are blind. And yes,better late than never doesn't always apply.

Modifié par Polliot, 19 mai 2011 - 06:54 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

[ADLegend21]

EDIT: Ninja'd by Cheez

Modifié par ADLegend21, 19 mai 2011 - 06:56 .

[SalsaDMA]

centauri2002 wrote...

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

Ahem. the entire point was that people don't want him/her to love whoever, but stick to established orientations.

Let the bi/gay interest be token new guy/girl.

Problem there, ofc, is that they at the same time shove established characters into the background in cameos, adding fuel to the fire of peoples discontent

[Erani]

^ Well it appears as though the double standard is going to be eliminated. If people want to argue for continued DS then whatever, be my guest.

[Polliot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

Still, in some of the interviews they don't call them female,nor in some parts of the game

[Wereparrot]

Aniki_21 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Thanks for proving my points guys.

edit: and girls, ofc

If you don't support S/S romances you are a bigot. Plain and simple. It's just like if you didn't want Jacob in the game because you don't like black people. It's EXACTLY the same thing. 

Oh come on, it is nothing of the sort. It is insulting to suggest that not approving the inclusion of bi characters is akin to racism. This is a different issue entirely. Could it be that you yourself are bigotted in your rash and incorrect statement? 

Needless to say, you could make Shepherd black from the beginning, but roleplaying Shepherd as gay was a figment of your imagination.

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

I'm pretty sure the only people who don't consider Liara to be s/s are people who are against the inclusion of s/s romance options and want to maintain it was never in the game in the first place in response to the "double standards" argument from the pro-s/s camp.

Modifié par ipgd, 19 mai 2011 - 06:58 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...

I was reffering to male Shep. Sure,it's a double standard,but BioWare made it that way. People usually say how BioWare made M/M lines for previous games,thinking that it helps their case. But that only proves they thought about it when making ME1,but decided not to do it.And some people complained.
When ME2 came,they decided not to put it there AGAIN.

If you can't see that it's an obvious fanservice and that it indeed breaks continuity,then you are blind. And yes,better late than never doesn't always apply.

And here we are at ME3, and apparently they are deciding to do it now. What's the problem?

It doesn't break continuity. While it's not explicitly supported, it's not precluded anywhere in ME1 or 2. There's no rewriting here - just expanding upon.