6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Ryzaki wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

Which would make it neutral at best. I wasn't arguing that it's negative for everyone but simply disagreeing with the arguement that it's a  "positive" addition for everyone because is simply isn't. For a lot of people it's a useless addition that will add nothing to their gaming experience. 

But if something is neutral for a lot of people and positive for everyone else, doesn't that make it a net positive addition?

Not for the people who actively don't want the option. Personally it's kind of a negative thing for me because I'd much rather it be another option that I was remotely interested in . Obviously it's a possitive thing for you because you want it but that isn't the case for everyone.  

Look at it this way. 20% of the player base use FemShep (nowhere near a majority). Yet she has more than 40% of the available LIs. If you divide that up let's use 50% for a nice even number. That means she has 5 LIs being used by 20% of the player base. At best (assuming every LI is equal which they aren't). Each LI is only being used by 4% of the player base. 

That's not a high number in the least. Yet no one really wants FemShep to have no LIs. 

On the other hand opening some of those exclusive LIs o m/m means that the content would then be used by say potentially 8% of the player base (assuming only 4% of M!Sheps romance a MaleNPC). 

Resources wise the more people who see the content the better. 

So no one is gonna say how gay Shepard is somehow more of a resource drain the femshep's exclusive LIs? Nearly every male LI she has cost about 10% of the resources (including Liara whom she shares with dude Shep). 

Jacob, Thane, Garrus, Kaidan, Liara
Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Tali, Jack.
nearly 50% of the romances is only being used by 20% of the playerbase. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mai 2011 - 07:00 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Polliot wrote...

Still, in some of the interviews they don't call them female,nor in some parts of the game

1. People in the game get stuff wrong all the time.  Misunderstanding and cultural ignorance is a recurring theme.

2. PR damage control.  They're afraid of Fox News coming after them again, so they skirt the issue.

[MACharlie1]

Polliot wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

Still, in some of the interviews they don't call them female,nor in some parts of the game

Um...they are ALWAYS referred to as female. It's only when Liara is being all scientifically "well, technically..." but come on. Matriarchs, maidens, mothers, daughters, sisters - feminine titles. The only male title they have is father. 

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well now, then what's the big deal? Lots of things weren't options in the first two games that might be good ideas in ME3, as long as they don't directly contradict something that was unequivocally stated in the first two games. Like if suddenly Shepard was never an Alliance Marine, or never a Spectre, or didn't leave somebody to die on Virmire. Those would be retcons. Those ideas would suck.

And we pretty much know that Gay Male Shepard wasn't an option people could explore within the content of the first two games, though we were free to role-play it anyway. That was kind of the whole point of the Fight For The Love initiative, you know. More options in-game is what we're all about. Well, that and not taking away anybody else's candy in the process.

what i was saying was that i dont think established squadmates (garrus, miranda, jacob, tali, ect.) shouldnt be made bi. it makes no sense.

yes i realize people can be bi. it just makes no sense that they'd be attracted to shepard and not express it in any way. since d ue to their personalities in the straight relationships they seem pretty comfortable with themselves. so if they hide it till now there'd have to be a big reason for it and would make a silly stupid melo-dramatic coming out plotline which would dominate the romance and just be all around lame.

instead they could write new characters have them be openly gay/bi and have them have actually interesting plot-lines and character archs.

as for shepard, he should be able to lead the galactic gay pride parade for all im concerned lol, i dont care about that.

[ADLegend21]

SalsaDMA wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

Ahem. the entire point was that people don't want him/her to love whoever, but stick to established orientations.

Let the bi/gay interest be token new guy/girl.

Problem there, ofc, is that they at the same time shove established characters into the background in cameos, adding fuel to the fire of peoples discontent

You;ve got to be one selfish type of person to deny someone pursuing a romanc ew ith their fave character. I want my male shep and Jacob to be together, who are you to tell me how to role play him becuase "Jacob's established as straight" plenty of people in reality have been established as stright but then found out "oh hey I'm gay" established means nothing in the face of self discovery.

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

And let us not forget Kelly.

[Servo to the bitter end]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Still, in some of the interviews they don't call them female,nor in some parts of the game

1. People in the game get stuff wrong all the time.  Misunderstanding and cultural ignorance is a recurring theme.

2. PR damage control.  They're afraid of Fox News coming after them again, so they skirt the issue.

I really think that this was also some weirdo justification for the fanbase for not including M/M - as though saying the hot blue space chick was not female would make them not look like hypocrites.

[Centauri2002]

SalsaDMA wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

Ahem. the entire point was that people don't want him/her to love whoever, but stick to established orientations.

Let the bi/gay interest be token new guy/girl.

Problem there, ofc, is that they at the same time shove established characters into the background in cameos, adding fuel to the fire of peoples discontent

I don't mind what other Shepards are doing in their games, so yes I'll let them love whoever they want. 

I really hope they don't neglect any other LIs by adding in these new characters. Unfortunately, BioWare have made this a bit awkward for themselves by adding in so many squad members in ME2. Unfortunately, the focus is going to have to shift somewhat. As long as all of the LIs are given equal treatment though, I don't see there being too much of a problem. But the extra development time should see to it that these new characters don't overshadow any existing characters. That is my hope, anyway.

Besides, these new characters will be open to straight relationships as well as same sex, so they are of benefit to everyone. 

[AdmiralCheez]

TommyServo wrote...

I really think that this was also some weirdo justification for the fanbase for not including M/M - as though saying the hot blue space chick was not female would make them not look like hypocrites.

Probably this, too.

[Polliot]

TommyServo wrote...


And here we are at ME3, and apparently they are deciding to do it now. What's the problem?

It should have been done from beginning,or not be done at all.

[ipgd]

Wereparrot wrote...

roleplaying Shepherd as gay was a figment of your imagination.

Apparently not, because ME3 will explicitly support the "he's gay" interpretation of my lonely celibateshep's self-love cabin sessions.

[Ryzaki]

...So instead of arguing about how to better use resources we're bickering over the orientation of fictional characters that none of us created (save for Shepard).

I'll never understand fandom.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Clonedzero wrote...

instead they could write new characters have them be openly gay/bi and have them have actually interesting plot-lines and character archs.

as for shepard, he should be able to lead the galactic gay pride parade for all im concerned lol, i dont care about that.

Everyone on our side of the argument is 100% ok with this. I think.

I, in any event, can accept this concern, even if I don't think it necessarily applies to all existing characters. New characters would be a wonderful compromise.

But we don't know what's going to happen until Bioware announces it, so all we can do is discuss possible implementations - including re-writes as well as new characters.

And around we go.

[Erani]

Asari are sexually female. They have female sex organs and breasts. They resemble human females in shape and form. Even were they not sexually female, just the fact that they look like a human woman would mean that FemShep must be at least bi. No way FemShep is just attracted to asari and not human females....when asari look just like human females with tentacles for hair and blue skin.

[AdmiralCheez]

Polliot wrote...

It should have been done from beginning,or not be done at all.

By that logic, ME2 shouldn't even exist.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...
It should have been done from beginning,or not be done at all.

Miraculously, it was.

[Siona]

rynluna wrote...

Since when does....

I was friends with this chick in brain camp mean I'm completely straight?

I take care of my sisters and one of my sisters thinks Kaidan is cute means I'm completely straight?

I'd like to link suits with FemShep means I'm completely straight?

I had a threesome with a guy and girl but I hate hanging out with girls means I'm completely straight?

I'd question the others but apparently anyone who has been in a relationship or had sex with opposite sex can only ever be straight.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[Valcutio]

ADLegend21 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

As I've said before, people are just too darn concerned with labels. Let Shepard love whoever he/she wants!

Ahem. the entire point was that people don't want him/her to love whoever, but stick to established orientations.

Let the bi/gay interest be token new guy/girl.

Problem there, ofc, is that they at the same time shove established characters into the background in cameos, adding fuel to the fire of peoples discontent

You;ve got to be one selfish type of person to deny someone pursuing a romanc ew ith their fave character. I want my male shep and Jacob to be together, who are you to tell me how to role play him becuase "Jacob's established as straight" plenty of people in reality have been established as stright but then found out "oh hey I'm gay" established means nothing in the face of self discovery.

And plenty of people in real life are just... straight.

I understand the desire to introduce gay characters. I have no issue with this. What I have an issue with is changing the orientation of established characters.

"But they dont have to say they're gay to be gay!"

Yes, they do.

"But straight people don't have to announce that they're straight."

Because it's a biological normalcy that has kept the human race from becoming extinct since the very beginning of our species. We assume people have 5 fingers on each hand until it's announced otherwise.

[Clonedzero]

rynluna wrote...

Since when does....

I was friends with this chick in brain camp mean I'm completely straight?

I take care of my sisters and one of my sisters thinks Kaidan is cute means I'm completely straight?

I'd like to link suits with FemShep means I'm completely straight?

I had a threesome with a guy and girl but I hate hanging out with girls means I'm completely straight?

I'd question the others but apparently anyone who has been in a relationship or had sex with opposite sex can only ever be straight.

never said that.

it means they were concealing the fact that they're attracted to shepard and were gay/bi. right? yup.

it also means they'd have to do some really stupid "coming out" plot-line thats better left on a dumb tvshow like Glee, i dont want resources wasted on writing pointless melodrama. sorry.

make an interesting and likable openly gay/bi character with a super cool badass backround instead.

everyones happy that way too.

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

It should have been done from beginning,or not be done at all.

By that logic, ME2 shouldn't even exist.

I wish stupid terminator baby didn't exist. 

[Polliot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

It should have been done from beginning,or not be done at all.

By that logic, ME2 shouldn't even exist.

What?! That's completely different

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

it means they were concealing the fact that they're attracted to shepard and were gay/bi. right? yup.

Tali: "Oh I was interested in you back in ME1 but I didn't say anything."

Yep.

Anyway, no one is against new gay/bi characters.  What they are arguing is that it's possible for some old characters to be bi.  Not necessarily likely, but possible.