6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Polliot]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Valcutio wrote...

"But they dont have to say they're gay to be gay!"

Yes, they do.

See, that's where any pretense of a rational argument goes out the window.

Of course,when you took it out of the context. Maybe you should try reading that post to the end.

[jeweledleah]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

it means they were concealing the fact that they're attracted to shepard and were gay/bi. right? yup.

Tali: "Oh I was interested in you back in ME1 but I didn't say anything."

Yep.

Anyway, no one is against new gay/bi characters.  What they are arguing is that it's possible for some old characters to be bi.  Not necessarily likely, but possible.

didn't say anything to either Shepard.  still not a fan of that particular reveal, but meh.

for what its worth, personal opinion that no one cares about anyways, but hey - I'm hyper on some very delicious coffee, so

TLDR version - depends on implementations

long version with some of the possible examples

"oh, I was always into both men and women, it just never came up in conversation" - totaly plausible
"oh, I was always in love with you, I was just hiding it" - iffy, and completely implausible when it comes to Jacob (who isn't interested in Shepard romanticaly at all, untill you push him, and you have to push him hard, or you end up friendzoned)
"oh, I was in love with you and just hiding it, even though I couldn't help it but constantly reveal it to oposite sex Shepard" - implies some very unfortunate things about treatment of homosexuality in Mass Effect universe... or just bad writing
"oh after you died and I finaly got over you/guilt for surviving, and even though I thought you were a traitor, I couldn't help but fall in love" - IMO, cheesy, not very plausible and would make me facepalm - regardless of Shepard's sex btw.
"now that we're working together and you keep coming around and throwing those hints, I cannot help but see you in this more romantic light" - hmm, I like where this is going.

[AdmiralCheez]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Actually, between me and my friends it's pretty common to make innuendos about women and sex (or just comment parts of their physique in a way that leaves no doubt as to the interest in doing sexual stuff with them) on a timescale that could certainly be said to be somewhat 'common'. I asume it is a thing that varies within cultures or 'cricles of people'. But between guys where I live, it's pretty common to comment on stuff they'd like to do with 'fine women' when they hang out with other guys.

Yeah, but do you talk to your boss like that?

[Wereparrot]

Mesina2 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

And let us not forget Kelly.

Of course humans are going to describe asari as female, for the purposes of easy reference and understanding. It does not make them so.
 
And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

[Siona]

Valcutio wrote...

"But they dont have to say they're gay to be gay!"

Yes, they do.

Ah, no they don't. Surprisingly, I don't go around wearing a shirt screaming my preferences anymore than a straight person does. If a gay person hits on a straight person, that straight person has to admit to being straight, exactly the same as a straight person hitting on a gay person who then has to let them know they're gay. It works both ways, people, and assumptions generally suck.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Wereparrot wrote...

Of course humans are going to describe asari as female, for the purposes of easy reference and understanding. It does not make them so.
 
And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

But you can't deny that, from the forehead down, they're conventionally attractive human women with blue skin. And it follows logically that a straight woman, who is not attracted to the human female form, would likely not find an asari attractive. And she certainly wouldn't have any interest, romantically or just as a "fling" or whatever, in Kelly.

Modifié par TommyServo, 19 mai 2011 - 07:23 .

[Clonedzero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Of course. It's a reasonable assumption, and one you will be right about 95% of the time, but because it is still an assumption, you don't get to get upset when you are wrong.

Yeah.  Some people go for years without coming out, and nobody knows.

those people suck. you know why? cus its only super important and emotional for them and they expect everyone to act like they think its a big deal. the only people who end up tinking its a big deal are the ignorant jerks who disapprove. that and the touchy feeling creepy overly supportive people. the people that dont think its a big deal and dont really care are the ones that accept it the most.

the people who get all overly supportive i think are kinda insulting to the person because they're acting like the person changed when they didnt, they're still the same person.

[MACharlie1]

Wereparrot wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

oh i wasnt counting liara and femshep because for the longest time no one considered that s/s but i guess everyone is now?

i remember all the old s/s support threads where people would go "what about liara?" and people would respond "she's not technically female, so that doesnt count".

but we're counting her now?

It's called denial.  They were skirting around the issue because they didn't want to admit that Shepard could be a lesbian.

And let us not forget Kelly.

Of course humans are going to describe asari as female, for the purposes of easy reference and understanding. It does not make them so.
 
And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

And that my friend, you have just hit the nail on the head. To the ASARI, they are not female. But to a HUMAN FEMALE SHEPARD she is a female therefore, in order for a human female to be attracted to an asari she'd have to be bisexual/lesbian.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wereparrot wrote...

Of course humans are going to describe asari as female, for the purposes of easy reference and understanding. It does not make them so.

Their own language describes them as female!  Maiden, matriarch, mother, goddess, etc.

Additionally, that codex entry describes how they reproduce and explains how that makes them female.
 

And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

That couldn't be to skirt around the double-standard again, could it?

[CroGamer002]

Wereparrot wrote...
 
And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

Serious romance or not, FemShep watches her dance in stripper outfit and kisses with her, kinda.

[AngelicMachinery]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Actually,Mass Effect was itended to be a trilogy from the beginning. And without ME2,the main story obviously couldn't be finished,and if you don't see why it isn't the same thing....

Okay, then.  What about Thane?  Heat sinks?  Combat drones?  Talimance?

What about Shepherd going from bad ass marine to SpaceJesus?

[Erani]

Please, the whole "are asari female or not" discussion is off-topic. It has already been established in the Codex that they are female and that is not even the topic of this discussion.
This is to discuss same-sex romances in ME3.

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Like somebody else said, sometimes assumptions are wrong.  For example, the majority of people who play ME are male.  Therefore, if you're going to take a blind guess at a person's gender here, you'll probably pick "male."  Everyone on this forum assumed I was a dude until I outright stated I was a girl.

And that's what scares me.

[ipgd]

Wereparrot wrote...

Of course humans are going to describe asari as female, for the purposes of easy reference and understanding. It does not make them so.
 
And Kelly never counted as a serious romance anyway.

Asari are scientifically, biologically, sexually female. They are not necessarily female gendered. There is a difference.

Whether or not Kelly is "serious" is pretty irrelevant to the fact you can have gay sex with her.

[SalsaDMA]

Erani wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

instead they could write new characters have them be openly gay/bi and have them have actually interesting plot-lines and character archs.

as for shepard, he should be able to lead the galactic gay pride parade for all im concerned lol, i dont care about that.

Everyone on our side of the argument is 100% ok with this. I think.

Clearly not, as evidenced on this very page

Clearly most people are for this, even if they also would like some old characters to be bi. It's like this.

1- some people want old characters bi in ME3
2- some people want new characters only bi in ME3
3- some people want both
4- some people don't care.
5- most people who want #1 have said that they would happily settle for #2.

I would like to note that you could probably add a #6 too
6- some people couldn't care less if new characters were added that were 'gay only' if existing characters weren't rewritten.

I know I personally fall into the #6 category, at least

[Polliot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Actually,Mass Effect was itended to be a trilogy from the beginning. And without ME2,the main story obviously couldn't be finished,and if you don't see why it isn't the same thing....

Okay, then.  What about Thane?  Heat sinks?  Combat drones?  Talimance?

What about Thane? He was in Terminus,during ME1 we never went there.
Combat drones - just a gameplay change,affects story in no way
Talimance - a mistake,it felt wrong and forced.

[CroGamer002]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Actually,Mass Effect was itended to be a trilogy from the beginning. And without ME2,the main story obviously couldn't be finished,and if you don't see why it isn't the same thing....

Okay, then.  What about Thane?  Heat sinks?  Combat drones?  Talimance?

What about Shepherd going from bad ass marine to SpaceJesus?

I though Shepard's a SpaceVampire.

[LiquidGrape]

Polliot wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

See, that's where any pretense of a rational argument goes out the window.

Of course,when you took it out of the context. Maybe you should try reading that post to the end.

The context is self-explanatory. But if you insist, I can include the full post here:

Valcutio wrote...
And plenty of people in real life are just... straight.

I understand the desire to introduce gay characters. I have no issue with this. What I have an issue with is changing the orientation of established characters.

"But they dont have to say they're gay to be gay!"

Yes, they do.

"But straight people don't have to announce that they're straight."

Because it's a biological normalcy that has kept the human race from becoming extinct since the very beginning of our species. We assume people have 5 fingers on each hand until it's announced otherwise.

In short, the fundamental argument reads: "the heteronormative is enforced, and therefore the heteronormative is correct".
This is not rational. Nor is it correct.

I'm bothered by this prevalent idea of sexuality being something which must be explicitly projected to somehow be perceived as legitimate.
Why is that?

The social constructs which produce the traits and mannerisms of gender and sexual roles aren't somehow innately tied to the respective biological sex and sexuality. They aren't what defines a person of any given orientation.
Those constructs are artificial, malleable qualities which change and fluctuate with time.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 19 mai 2011 - 07:32 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Polliot wrote...

What about Thane? He was in Terminus,during ME1 we never went there.

THEY MADE HIM UP AS A FRESH CHARACTER JUST FOR ME3, DUDE.

And they only came up with the drell race AFTER they whipped him up.

Entirely new content, never once hinted in ME1.

[thatguy212]

Mesina2 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Actually,Mass Effect was itended to be a trilogy from the beginning. And without ME2,the main story obviously couldn't be finished,and if you don't see why it isn't the same thing....

Okay, then.  What about Thane?  Heat sinks?  Combat drones?  Talimance?

What about Shepherd going from bad ass marine to SpaceJesus?

I though Shepard's a SpaceVampire.

Morinth is a SpaceVampire, Shepard is SpaceZombieJesus

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Of course. It's a reasonable assumption, and one you will be right about 95% of the time, but because it is still an assumption, you don't get to get upset when you are wrong.

Yeah.  Some people go for years without coming out, and nobody knows.

those people suck. you know why? cus its only super important and emotional for them and they expect everyone to act like they think its a big deal. the only people who end up tinking its a big deal are the ignorant jerks who disapprove. that and the touchy feeling creepy overly supportive people. the people that dont think its a big deal and dont really care are the ones that accept it the most.

You met one person who made a big deal out of coming out so all people who are not explicitly and openly gay when you meet them have to make a big deal about it? Sometimes it just never comes up until it does.

[Servo to the bitter end]

Polliot wrote...

What about Thane? He was in Terminus,during ME1 we never went there.
.

Then what about gay male Shepard? There was no one around to return his affections, so it never came up either way.

Modifié par TommyServo, 19 mai 2011 - 07:26 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Mesina2 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Polliot wrote...

Actually,Mass Effect was itended to be a trilogy from the beginning. And without ME2,the main story obviously couldn't be finished,and if you don't see why it isn't the same thing....

Okay, then.  What about Thane?  Heat sinks?  Combat drones?  Talimance?

What about Shepherd going from bad ass marine to SpaceJesus?

I though Shepard's a SpaceVampire.

Nah,  Morinth is a SpaceVampire or SpaceSuccubus I'm not entirely sure which,

[AdmiralCheez]

Mesina2 wrote...

I though Shepard's a SpaceVampire.

Twelve disciples, bro.

[Polliot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Actually, between me and my friends it's pretty common to make innuendos about women and sex (or just comment parts of their physique in a way that leaves no doubt as to the interest in doing sexual stuff with them) on a timescale that could certainly be said to be somewhat 'common'. I asume it is a thing that varies within cultures or 'cricles of people'. But between guys where I live, it's pretty common to comment on stuff they'd like to do with 'fine women' when they hang out with other guys.

Yeah, but do you talk to your boss like that?

Shepard is not just their boss,but their friend too.Not just my opinion,lines are pretty clear about that