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[Ashira Shepard]

Cootie wrote...

I, for one, am very curious as to why his sudden supposed switch in sexuality is an issue. It's hardly important, in my opinion, and something you should just go "Oh, I didn't know that, cool" at.
Not throw a fit akin to "AMAGAWD THEY EXPLAINED THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW BECAUSE I WASN'T TOLD AND I ONLY HAD MY 
HUNCHES TO GO ON THE CHARACTER IS RUINED!"

One would think the rest of the supposed alteration in character would attract the most attention, not his sexual preference. Besides, having another personality inside your head might influence, you know, personality traits.
I just think, personally, that a lot of these protests are childish and I am quite flabbergasted at how important sexual preferences are to your continued friendship with a fictional character.
It's a generalised You, by the by. Not You specifically.

Same here. I had a friend who was very much the hormonal male teenager and loved the ladies. Then he confessed to me out of the blue that he thought he might be bi because of certain events. I was surprised because of his previous behaviour but didn't remark, it didn't effect my friendship with him. What I did do was be supportive and it passed without too much incident. He's still the same pervy teen

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 16 mai 2011 - 02:58 .

[Khayness]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Or are you seriously so personally affected by an optional romance in a 40-hour game, in a 120-hour arc, that you can ignore entirely?

No, it was just handled badly.

If I play as a female Hawke, Anders is a completely different person and so are the ladies.

But if you think that BioWare didn't cave in from the fan pressure about s/s and they wanted to tell the story that way from the begining, then you have a serious commitment to BioWare's storytelling (just think of the "but the yoi fangirls wanted to romance Alistair" comments).

Modifié par Khayness, 16 mai 2011 - 03:01 .

[Clonedzero]

Mesina2 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
So you're saying after playing this game for over a year, 12 Shepard's and 20+playthrough's I though that Jacob had a son and I actually misunderstood it and he's actually only child?

Check my previous post. I edited it with a link.

Can someone put facepalm picture on my post?
I deserve even worse.

its ok, i dont think many people pay close attention to anythign jacob says lol

[Siansonea]

I never played Awakenings, but wasn't that before Anders and Justice 'fused' or whatever? I hear people talk about Justice as if he were a separate character. I'd say that a lot of the changes to Anders' demeanor and whatnot in DA2 stem from him becoming a hybrid personality. Like I said, I never played the previous Dragon Age games, I just know Anders from DA2.

[ElitePinecone]

Mesina2 wrote...


Can someone put facepalm picture on my post?
I deserve even worse.

I have to admit, I... have no idea how you got the impression Jacob had a son  

He has been involved with Miranda, though - and she's infertile as far as we can tell. No little Taylors running around, I don't think. Well, maybe with femShep in a little while. 

[Ghost Warrior]

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

Compare this two. I know it doesn't "prove" anything,but it is another indication how Garrus is more buddy-like with male Shep.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 16 mai 2011 - 03:03 .

[Cootie]

Jebel Krong wrote...

this. the floodgates have been opened and i see no-one being happy with whatever BW does from here on out w-romances. you'd think the game was a dating sim from threads like this.

Let's boil this down for a second:

There will be at least one homosexual male love interest in ME-3.
That is what we know.

The game has been reduced to crap, obviously.

[Fdingo]

I'm so late to this, but do you guys think that the gay romance options for both M&F are new characters or if some characters from previous games start swinging both ways?

[Jebel Krong]

Clonedzero wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
They are irrational.
Only thing that they can say for defending Garrus suddenly becoming bi in ME3 is that he never actually said that he wasn't.
But we know he was with a woman,can be with Fem Shep,but not with male one nor did he ever show the slightest interest in him and acts all bro-like and some of his lines strongly suggest that he is straight. Same goes for many other characters. So there is absolutely no reason to assume he is bisexual,but there are many reasons to assume he is straight. But that is not enough for them,and the best they can do is "since when are you expert on bisexual relationships?". Well I'm no expert but I can apply basic logics,unlike some people here.

Basic logic:

Point 1: Straight people have relationships with the opposite gender.
Point 2: Bisexual people have relationships with the opposite gender and the same gender.
Point 3: Garrus has had relationships with the opposite gender.
Point 4: Garrus potentially fits into both categories, as we have no real evidence of him not being interested in men.

You can assume all you want that not romancing ME2 dudeShep makes him straight, but that is entirely your own assumption.  Because Garrus doesn't show any interest in female Shepard either until you directly pursue his romance, and he didn't express any interest in anyone in ME1.

It's all very simple and logical.

again. my arguement isnt that its not possible.
its that it'd feel very forced, awkward, and would end up being poorly written and regarded as a bad romance by a vast majority of the fans.

it could happen sure. it'd just be really poorly written and absolutely feel like forced fanservice.

and i'd actually love some compelling reasons for a bi relationship to form OTHER than "well they never said they werent bi" because again. WORST REASON EVER.

trouble is the precedent was set when you could romance garrus/tali physically in ME2, when the likelihood of killing at least one of them just by doing so was close to 100% and both being completely biologically incompatible.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Clonedzero wrote...
again. my arguement isnt that its not possible.
its that it'd feel very forced, awkward, and would end up being poorly written and regarded as a bad romance by a vast majority of the fans.
it could happen sure. it'd just be really poorly written and absolutely feel like forced fanservice.
and i'd actually love some compelling reasons for a bi relationship to form OTHER than "well they never said they werent bi" because again. WORST REASON EVER.

Your argument is another assumption.

You assume that it will end up poorly written; you assume that it wil be regarded as a bad romance; you assume it would feel like forced fan-service.

All of these assumptions are completely baseless; you're jumping to conclusions on every single one of them. 

Their sexuality never being defined is merely the fact that makes the bi-romance plausible.  It's up to BioWare to get from that point to an actual "compelling reason", if they deem one necessary.  You're assuming that these people are just going to act like they've always been bi, and you have a personal problem with that.  And there's no reason you should be bothered by it either other than your own assumptions and meta-knowledge, which in itself forces you to suspend disbelief by acknowledging that these people are all characters in a videogame acting under scripted events.

And just because they didn't give you the impression that they were bi doesn't mean they aren't.  Life doesn't work like that, which in itself is realistic to have in a game.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 mai 2011 - 03:03 .

[Jebel Krong]

Cootie wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

this. the floodgates have been opened and i see no-one being happy with whatever BW does from here on out w-romances. you'd think the game was a dating sim from threads like this.

Let's boil this down for a second:

There will be at least one homosexual male love interest in ME-3.
That is what we know.

The game has been reduced to crap, obviously.

nope the game will be great, but people with a romance agenda as a big priority will be unhappy - too much =unhappy. too little = unhappy. certain characters only = unhappy. see?

[ElitePinecone]

@Khayness:

That's reasonable, I think a certain degree of catering to fans was involved. But I hardly think it sets a precedent.

There have been multiple news reports in the gaming press about the lack of s/s for ME2, plus literally dozens of threads about it. From comments by Bioware staffers on Twitter, they've also had plenty of requests from fans in other ways:

https://twitter.com/...139970584715264

I'm not saying it's necessarily totally defensible, but this isn't caving in to a tiny minority of people. There really is a large groundswell of support for this move; Bioware wouldn't have made it otherwise - they managed to ignore the calls for two games beforehand.

[DaeJi]

Jebel Krong wrote...

this. the floodgates have been opened and i see no-one being happy with whatever BW does from here on out w-romances. you'd think the game was a dating sim from threads like this.

I, for one, have been over the moon with what BioWare has been doing with the romances in its games. First, I FINALLY get my "just make everyone bi" game with Dragon Age 2 and now there are m/m options in Mass Effect 3!! Oh, BioWare you tease, I thought you didn't cater to my specific wants .

[Ashira Shepard]

For those yelling foul on the sudden sexuality...

Bi The Way

The page image sums it up nicely.

[ElitePinecone]

Fdingo wrote...

I'm so late to this, but do you guys think that the gay romance options for both M&F are new characters or if some characters from previous games start swinging both ways?

We don't really know yet.

Could be either, or both. I'd put my money on some old characters (possibly in addition to some new options), given Casey Hudson's tweets about 'preserving continuity'. Then again, that might be wishful thinking.

I'd be happy with just about anything, assuming it's written well and believably. This is just great news all around. 

[Cootie]

Jebel Krong wrote...

nope the game will be great, but people with a romance agenda as a big priority will be unhappy - too much =unhappy. too little = unhappy. certain characters only = unhappy. see?

I'm just curious how this will affect your (general you, not really you-you.)game if you already have an LI from the first few games or if you've got a single, straight Shepard. It's not like the option compells you through dark magics.
You're still assuming the sky will fall and crush everyone.

In space.

There isn't even a sky in space, by the by.

[Khayness]

ElitePinecone wrote...

@Khayness:

That's reasonable, I think a certain degree of catering to fans was involved. But I hardly think it sets a precedent.

There have been multiple news reports in the gaming press about the lack of s/s for ME2, plus literally dozens of threads about it. From comments by Bioware staffers on Twitter, they've also had plenty of requests from fans in other ways:

https://twitter.com/...139970584715264

I'm not saying it's necessarily totally defensible, but this isn't caving in to a tiny minority of people. There really is a large groundswell of support for this move; Bioware wouldn't have made it otherwise - they managed to ignore the calls for two games beforehand.

It's not the catering to the fans aspect what is really bothering me, but that Anders isn't really bi, he is just attracted to whatever gender your Hawke happens to be.

And that's just the lazy way out, which damages the credibility of the storytelling.

[nelly21]

Cootie wrote...


I, for one, am very curious as to why his sudden supposed switch in sexuality is an issue. It's hardly important, in my opinion, and something you should just go "Oh, I didn't know that, cool" at.
Not throw a fit akin to "AMAGAWD THEY EXPLAINED THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW BECAUSE I WASN'T TOLD AND I ONLY HAD MY 
HUNCHES TO GO ON THE CHARACTER IS RUINED!"

One would think the rest of the supposed alteration in character would attract the most attention, not his sexual preference. Besides, having another personality inside your head might influence, you know, personality traits.
I just think, personally, that a lot of these protests are childish and I am quite flabbergasted at how important sexual preferences are to your continued friendship with a fictional character.
It's a generalised You, by the by. Not You specifically.

It isn't important to me. Truth be told, I don't particularly care about romances in ME or DA that much. (Except Miranda of course ). My point is that I felt that the new sexual orientation was an example of the God-awful character butchery that was Anders in DA 2. I chose to focus on the aspect of the retcon that was most relevant to this thread. I also don't agree with the argument that "He/she never said they weren't so you assumed." No I didn't. The character wasn't written that way in previous games.

As I said, I'm all for options and if people want to play Shep as a homosexual, I don't see a reason they shouldn't be able to. Just don't retcon established characters.

[Clonedzero]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
again. my arguement isnt that its not possible.
its that it'd feel very forced, awkward, and would end up being poorly written and regarded as a bad romance by a vast majority of the fans.
it could happen sure. it'd just be really poorly written and absolutely feel like forced fanservice.
and i'd actually love some compelling reasons for a bi relationship to form OTHER than "well they never said they werent bi" because again. WORST REASON EVER.

Your argument is another assumption.

You assume that it will end up poorly written; you assume that it wil be regarded as a bad romance; you assume it would feel like forced fan-service.

All of these assumptions are completely baseless; you're jumping to conclusions on every single one of them. 

Their sexuality never being defined is merely the fact that makes the bi-romance plausible.  It's up to BioWare to get from that point to an actual "compelling reason", if they deem one necessary.  You're assuming that these people are just going to act like they've always been bi, and you have a personal problem with that.  And there's no reason you should be bothered by it either other than your own assumptions and meta-knowledge, which in itself forces you to suspend disbelief by acknowledging that these people are all characters in a videogame acting under scripted events.

And just because they didn't give you the impression that they were bi doesn't mean they aren't.  Life doesn't work like that, which in itself is realistic to have in a game.

i have a personal problem with bad writing. yes.

its simply bad writing to change characters in such a fundemental way so late in a series.

for one of the established characters to suddenly reveal that they're bi when there wasnt a single hint or reference earlier is pretty bad. hell its generally regarded as bad writing to suddenly add in new facts that completely change the dynamic of situations. whether that be sexual preference, or a deus ex machina.

the simple fact of the matter is that for an established character to suddenly and unexpectedly reveal that they are bi so you can have a happy s/s relationship with them IS a deus ex machina. its a bad writing tool. theres no character development, theres no character growth, theres no story arch. its BAD WRITING.

the reason i was saying the VS is the best choice for a s/s relationship is because they have the most reasonable reason to have no revealed that fact yet, and they were gone for all of ME2.

[k177sh0t]

So, this is BioWare's reply to  "EA Tweaking Mass Effect 3 to Appeal to Wider Market"?

Hopefully, there wont be a character thats similar to Anders that keeps hitting on my Shepard then denying the character and ending up with renegade points.

Modifié par k177sh0t, 16 mai 2011 - 03:14 .

[Darth Death]

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

[ElitePinecone]

I've gotta sleep now, but I do share your concerns about storytelling.

But I'm confident enough that it can be written well. Bioware are confident enough to announce it in the first place. They could've just as easily not featured s/s for a third game.

I'll reserve judgement until we actually see the romance dialogue, but I'd rather be optimistic about the quality of the writing and the storytelling. If the characterisation is as good as ME2's, I don't think many concerns about bisexuality would be warranted.

[Jebel Krong]

Cootie wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

nope the game will be great, but people with a romance agenda as a big priority will be unhappy - too much =unhappy. too little = unhappy. certain characters only = unhappy. see?

I'm just curious how this will affect your (general you, not really you-you.)game if you already have an LI from the first few games or if you've got a single, straight Shepard. It's not like the option compells you through dark magics.
You're still assuming the sky will fall and crush everyone.

In space.

There isn't even a sky in space, by the by.

garrus following up his reach and flexibility story with a one involving m-turian love? yeah that's be a tad creepy after how many years of friendship now? tbh apart from that, my romances are set, i just wait to see if i'll get proper fulfilment from them or the new game-facets will lead to them all being diluted.

[Ashira Shepard]

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Your Shepard was a straight male for the last two games.

Other peoples Shepard's have been homosexual men waiting for the right guy to come along.

[Recon Member]

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?