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[Black Raptor]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Artificial insemination is still that: Artificial.
And to use an oft used expression about treating stuff: it is treating the symptons and not the cause.

Much more effective to cut to the root of the issue if mutation of genes are the cause.

What's wrong with artificial? 
And the thing is, it shouldn't even be an issue. There is nothing wrong with correcting a gene that causes blindness for example, but there is nothing wrong with being gay so why should it be eliminated?

Let me reverse the question: It does nothing for the species either. People are respected as people wether or not they are gay. Why should it be kept then when it is damper for natural procreation? It doesn't grant anything to the people aside taking away the desire to procreate naturally.

If gene therapy is common, why are some nonbeneficial mutations considered desirable despite hindering natural evolution?

Because, the detrimental effect of the lack of procreation amongst homosexuals is so small, its not worth bothering about.
Gay people like (or should like) being gay, so it is not a bad thing.

[SalsaDMA]

Ciryx wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Feel free to actually read what I stated. If you just want the legal definition: No issue (it's even in the quote you quoted from me).

What being married constitues depends alot on the beliefs of people and 'what type of marriage' you participate in.

I've heard plenty of gay people claim they want the right to be married in a church, despite the church in question they ask to be married in has a doctrine against it. It is these cases where the right stops being a right and more a battering stick that is used against the right of other people to have their religion in peace without others trying to make a mockery of it.

Discussing Religion is against Forum Rules. If you want to continue that nonesense, please do it elsewhere. 

- deleted - 

screw this, its just not worth it.

I was commenting on another person making a generic statement that inherently involves religions. I am not discussing religion as such, merely pointing out that the statement made by the poster was unclear and then outlined the 2 different ways it could be interpreted while showing my disdain if the second interpretation was actually the intent of the poster.

[SalsaDMA]

Ciryx wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Artificial insemination is still that: Artificial.
And to use an oft used expression about treating stuff: it is treating the symptons and not the cause.

Much more effective to cut to the root of the issue if mutation of genes are the cause.

What's wrong with artificial? 
And the thing is, it shouldn't even be an issue. There is nothing wrong with correcting a gene that causes blindness for example, but there is nothing wrong with being gay so why should it be eliminated?

Let me reverse the question: It does nothing for the species either. People are respected as people wether or not they are gay. Why should it be kept then when it is damper for natural procreation? It doesn't grant anything to the people aside taking away the desire to procreate naturally.

If gene therapy is common, why are some nonbeneficial mutations considered desirable despite hindering natural evolution?

This statement just got you reportet.

For discussing mass effect sciences impact on the issue?

Go ahead if it makes you happy, although I fail to see the relevance.

[GameBoyish]

Stop talking about religion, you're going to get this thread closed.

(or was that your plan all along SalsaDMA?)

Bring your fights to PM.

[Ciryx]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Ciryx wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Feel free to actually read what I stated. If you just want the legal definition: No issue (it's even in the quote you quoted from me).

What being married constitues depends alot on the beliefs of people and 'what type of marriage' you participate in.

I've heard plenty of gay people claim they want the right to be married in a church, despite the church in question they ask to be married in has a doctrine against it. It is these cases where the right stops being a right and more a battering stick that is used against the right of other people to have their religion in peace without others trying to make a mockery of it.

Discussing Religion is against Forum Rules. If you want to continue that nonesense, please do it elsewhere. 

- deleted - 

screw this, its just not worth it.

I was commenting on another person making a generic statement that inherently involves religions. I am not discussing religion as such, merely pointing out that the statement made by the poster was unclear and then outlined the 2 different ways it could be interpreted while showing my disdain if the second interpretation was actually the intent of the poster.

Which made you discussing Religion. 

[HolyMoogle]

It's obvious that SalsaDMA just wants to get this thread locked.

Ignore him and report anything relevant to the moderators.

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

[SalsaDMA]

Black Raptor wrote...

Because, the detrimental effect of the lack of procreation amongst homosexuals is so small, its not worth bothering about.
Gay people like (or should like) being gay, so it is not a bad thing.

Truth be told, I would feel sorry for gay people if they didn't like being gays, so I had asumed as much about their feelings of being so. It isn't an inherently bad thing for people on a personal level (aside from the earlier comments we witnessed about perceived prosecutions), but on the macroscale the effect as a 'natural birth control mechanism' cannot be denied.

In present day it can actually be seen as a good thing, as it holds off the point of when earth will be overpopulated when a sizeable amount stops being naturally interested in procreation; but when the boundary of earths limitations is removed and a limitless galaxy is the 'next step', the effect becomes noticable.

[Ciryx]

SalsaDMA wrote...

For discussing mass effect sciences impact on the issue?

Go ahead if it makes you happy, although I fail to see the relevance.

The "issue" as you put it, is some made up BS you brought in here.
You are NOT discussing Mass Effect sciences, but use the context it provides to declare homosexuality a genetic defect that needs to be cured.

And that, you try to justify with "religion". 

So all you do, is spreading some hatespeech noone wants to hear on these forums disguised with an "lore friendly" mass effect background.

And that got you reportet, nothing else.

[HolyMoogle]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Because, the detrimental effect of the lack of procreation amongst homosexuals is so small, its not worth bothering about.
Gay people like (or should like) being gay, so it is not a bad thing.

Truth be told, I would feel sorry for gay people if they didn't like being gays, so I had asumed as much about their feelings of being so. It isn't an inherently bad thing for people on a personal level (aside from the earlier comments we witnessed about perceived prosecutions), but on the macroscale the effect as a 'natural birth control mechanism' cannot be denied.

In present day it can actually be seen as a good thing, as it holds off the point of when earth will be overpopulated when a sizeable amount stops being naturally interested in procreation; but when the boundary of earths limitations is removed and a limitless galaxy is the 'next step', the effect becomes noticable.

Not when

A) Living standards have made children a lifestyle choice rather than a biological imperative
 Science allows all couples to have children

[GameBoyish]

HolyMoogle wrote...

It's obvious that SalsaDMA just wants to get this thread locked.

Ignore him and report anything relevant to the moderators.

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

Don't use the report button imho it's slow, fastest way is to PM moderators, like the OP for example.

Well, DAO underwear dry humping is definitely a no-no, ME1 seemed nice but really really short. It is kind of a Fade-to-Black imho... I just want the moment to make me feel all warm inside XD

[Ciryx]

HolyMoogle wrote...

It's obvious that SalsaDMA just wants to get this thread locked.

Ignore him and report anything relevant to the moderators.

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

ME 1 style. Or the Witcher 2 style, depending on context of the romance and the characters. 

The ME 1 cutscense were one of the best I have ever seen. In terms of taste etc.

Modifié par Ciryx, 20 mai 2011 - 12:56 .

[ElitePinecone]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

It's obvious that SalsaDMA just wants to get this thread locked.

Ignore him and report anything relevant to the moderators.

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

Don't use the report button imho it's slow, fastest way is to PM moderators, like the OP for example.

Well, DAO underwear dry humping is definitely a no-no, ME1 seemed nice but really really short. It is kind of a Fade-to-Black imho... I just want the moment to make me feel all warm inside XD

I felt warm and fuzzy just choosing some of the dialogue choices in DA2 - I've only romanced Anders, but being able to actually select that dialogue was pretty awesome. 

As long as it's represented in-game in some form (specifics of any relationship scene notwithstanding) I think I'd be pretty contented. 

[Snowship]

b4 this pinned thread gets locked due to real-life arguments can I just say.....

Why as a heterosexual I want Bioware to make a pure "gay" character.

Main reasoning:
It's lazy writing/programming.
I see what they did with all DA2 and Leliana/Zevran in DA:O (leaving out Asari from ME universe, which I understand for Lore reasons). They made lazy descisions (imo), it's easier to make a code "if PC is X then insert word Y in coversation B" than create specific dialogue for a Character for all circumstances.

(the following in my interpretation only)
Take Zevran for instance. In Origins once you "layed" him a few times he knocked you back* , to me (playing a gay character in that play-through) it seemed like he was falsely gay, ie: when push can to shove he was pandering to my character than really 'loving' him. Like the writers would only go so far.


But I want them to take that mug of HTFU and create a gay/lesbian character, regardless of my creation choices, that John/Jane Doe will be only available to the same-sex.
Otherwise I just see it as pandering rather than creating. (as in: we will pander to this market by doing a minor change in code rather than respecting the community by writing a character just for them). <-- bolded for this is my main point, ie BI is pandering like they did with DA2, they didn't make a gay character, they just did the minimal amount possible to make it seem that way.
And if ppl don't like it they can STFU. (and say in-game convo "sorry, I'm not interested", you know like in real-life!)
(sorry, came on too strong, ppl just ignore it. Ignorance is bliss!)


* Like Morrigan did when you confessed your love for her.


...Sorry for the rant, I've had  few drinks and wanted to get my thoughts across, plus I hope Bioware reads this and take some of it on-board. (mainly for future game since I doubt anything will change for the one's currently under production)
and probably none of it has come out the way I'd like, but that's alcahol for you!... now I'm off to bed to wake up in the morning as read what I've just wrote and think: WTF was I trying to say, none of it makes any sense!

[GameBoyish]

I couldn't enjoy DA2 romances because I was too fixated on Varric ahaha

But the proposal from Zevran in DAO was incredibly sweet...

Also, JACOB TAYLOR saying "I Love You" is great imho ^^

[Erani]

Ciryx wrote...

HolyMoogle wrote...

It's obvious that SalsaDMA just wants to get this thread locked.

Ignore him and report anything relevant to the moderators.

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

ME 1 style. Or the Witcher 2 style, depending on context of the romance and the characters. 

The ME 1 cutscense were one of the best I have ever seen. In terms of taste etc.

Yes, ME1 style would be best. 

[GameBoyish]

For those who haven't seen it yet,

in my opinion this video just shows what a great romance should feel like. But the person who edited the video is pretty good too heh

My point is a combination of good dialogue (just imagine stuff like "THE PRIIIZE" never happened) and good voiceover acting would make a great convincing romance...

So I am hoping whoever that bi/gay/lesbian option is, that he/she won't let us down

[Heidenreich]

*rubs eyes.. blinks, blinks blinks.. sips coffee*

So yea.. As much as I would love to see the "romance scene" like ME -- some ass and a little side-boob. -- We're probably not going to get it, because EA fears fox news ;p

Personally, game companies need to stand up for themselves. RPG games are story art just like movies and books are. If I, as an author, are permitted to write sweaty 'not completely smut' scenes in my books.. or as a director I can ask my actors to put on nude-suits and rub up against each other while the sheets cover the important taboo bits... Then why can't we at LEAST have a sheet roll with a little bit of exposed upper thigh and shoulder?

Don't get me wrong, I love the DA2 scenes. They're amazing, and leave enough to the imagination that is both tasteful and dirty! I just wish Hawke and Anders had their talk with bare chests (or maybe with a sheet covering Femhawke) in bed.. or Fenris wasn't FULLY ARMORED WITH SWORD when he gets ready to run out ;p

Even the ME2 scenes are wonderful. I -get- why fem!shep doesn't get nekked with Garrus on camera. Garrus is a taurian (... lawlIalmostwrotetauren) and the physiology is.. awkward at best. Thane could have at least gone shirtless.. or Shep could have started taking off her clothing (GIMMIE SOME SHOULDER FLESH:P)..

and the jacob scene? While man-abs are AMAZING *purrs and kneads palms of hands into jacob abs over and over like a kitty* it really would have been nice to see fem!shep start to pull her own shirt over her head before the fade to black. I'm an adult and this is a M rated game. It's OKAY if there's a LITTLE bit of flesh.

I mean for goodness sake Jack walks around half naked THE WHOLE GAME.. and Male!shep TOTALLY gets a miranda lacy bra shot! Again, I get the whole tali-still-in-suite scene.. alian, don't want to disappoint fans, etc etc..

If it's okay in movies to have the actors bump and grind, and its okay in books to have a sweaty-undress-fade-to-black.. then why isn't it okay in video games?

*huff*

[Erani]

^ That's very good Aeducan.

I'd like to see scenes where Shep and LI discuss what they want for their relationship, future, goals, etc. Even if the Reaper threat is still there, doesn't hurt to make plans and share your dreams with each other. Actually, that'd serve as encouragement to try and off the Reapers, having something peaceful and beautiful to look forward to like setting up house or starting a family.<3

Modifié par Erani, 20 mai 2011 - 01:14 .

[Heidenreich]

Erani wrote...

^ That's very good Aeducan.

I'd like to see scenes where Shep and LI discuss what they want for their relationship, future, goals, etc. Even if the Reaper threat is still there, doesn't hurt to make plans and share your dreams with each other. Actually, that'd serve as encouragement to try and off the Reapers, having something peaceful and beautiful to look forward to like setting up house or starting a family.<3

Bah.. My shepard isn't the settle down and have a family type. Mind you, she'd have Kaidan's babies if it happened by 'accident', but she'd never do it on purpous. Mmmmm kaidan babies.. *eyes glass over*

.....What were we talking about?

<3:D

[M-Sinistrari]

HolyMoogle wrote..

Let's get back on-topic from before this irritating invasion: fade to black, or ME1-style?

I can see merits to both styles.  Fade to Black's more condusive to letting our minds fill in whatever salaciousness is happening, and ME1-style did show just enough skin without going the tacky route or ending up looking silly like that computer generated smut from some years back.

Either style'd work for me, but what did kinda stick like a popcorn skin in teeth was there wasn't really consistency in the 'payoff' scenes in ME2.  With Miranda/Jacob/Tali/Liara, there were the definite start off with actions we do concider initial physical intimacy, whereas with the others it was 'touch heads/FTB' instead of getting the same initial tender touches the others had.

To me that came across more as 'Let's animate out more the characters dev X likes and just throw something out for the others'.

[DrBobcat]

Russalka wrote...

More aliens as bisexual options.

yes/no

YES. I find turians very attractive and would be thrilled if one was available as a m/m option in ME3. Preitor Gavorn seems like a possible candidate. Many LotSB vids featured him despite his insignificant role in the rest of the game. One clip in particular makes me wonder... *shrug*

As far as the romance scenes themselves are concerned, I'd prefer a return to the ME1 style. I don't need to see anything explicit, but this is a game intended for adults. A little sensuality wouldn't hurt. Also, I think it'd be great if (at least some of) the scenes focused more on emotions and less on sex. The fate of the galaxy is at stake! I think they could use some time to vent!

Modifié par DrBobcat, 20 mai 2011 - 01:50 .

[Therefore_I_Am]

Black Raptor wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Artificial insemination is still that: Artificial.
And to use an oft used expression about treating stuff: it is treating the symptons and not the cause.

Much more effective to cut to the root of the issue if mutation of genes are the cause.

What's wrong with artificial? 
And the thing is, it shouldn't even be an issue. There is nothing wrong with correcting a gene that causes blindness for example, but there is nothing wrong with being gay so why should it be eliminated?

Let me reverse the question: It does nothing for the species either. People are respected as people wether or not they are gay. Why should it be kept then when it is damper for natural procreation? It doesn't grant anything to the people aside taking away the desire to procreate naturally.

If gene therapy is common, why are some nonbeneficial mutations considered desirable despite hindering natural evolution?

Because, the detrimental effect of the lack of procreation amongst homosexuals is so small, its not worth bothering about.
Gay people like (or should like) being gay, so it is not a bad thing.

Agreed. Everyone's brain chemistry is different, each individual has his/her own set dose of hormones and specific chemicals that dictate what he/she is (popular belief is that it's from choice, not necessarily true). Think of it as nature's way of curbing the global population, it's a more of a passive method unlike the incurable death-related diseases like AIDS and cancer. The world's population is exploding, and mother earth has to do something about it...
Besides, from a third person point of view, I've seen couples with 5-6 children leading miserable, ignorant lives while gays climb high in the world and be successful.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 20 mai 2011 - 02:01 .

[bluuberg]

DrBobcat wrote...

Russalka wrote...

More aliens as bisexual options.

yes/no

YES. I find turians very attractive and would be thrilled if one was available as a m/m option in ME3. Preitor Gavorn seems like a possible candidate. Many LotSB vids featured him despite his insignificant role in the rest of the game. One clip in particular makes me wonder... *shrug*

As far as the romance scenes themselves are concerned, I'd prefer a return to the ME1 style. I don't need to see anything explicit, but this is a game intended for adults. A little sensuality wouldn't hurt. Also, I think it'd be great if (at least some of) the scenes focused more on emotions and less on sex. The fate of the galaxy is at stake! I think they could use some time to vent!

+1

[AltitudeNYC]

The way I see it is this.
If Bioware's new direction makes you uncomfortable, then don't patronize their business. They are a business after all and the best way to send a message either way is to vote with your dollars.