6696 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

I agree with Ashira.

rynluna wrote...

Exactly.
I'm also in the camp of new characters are fine but I will make my opinion clear that existing characters open to s/s romance is fine too.  I would be against an actual retcon if these existing characters actually stated they are only into one sex but none of them do.  It's my opinion that it's rather selfish of fans to want their favorite character to not be romanced by the same sex since it doesn't even effect their playthrough.

..and this.  I wouldn't call changing sexuality a retcon even if they did state something about it...those things happen in RL.

[Erani]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Why is the genetic status of homosexuality relevant *at all* to the already-announced S/S romances in ME3?

Your point is moot. Shepard can, and will in many cases, be gay in the universe of Mass Effect. Clearly, whatever eugenic leaps of logic are created to suggest a society should or would discard homosexuality through gene therepy do not apply in the fictional and hypothetical world of the Milky Way, 2186.

That being said, can we please move on.

This.The gene-therapy off-topic is getting old. 
No, I won't subject my Shepard to gene-therapy to purge the "gay gene"---->(there's no such thing).

S/S romances have been confirmed. Let's discuss the implementation, give suggestions, share on-topic ideas etc. 

Modifié par Erani, 20 mai 2011 - 03:48 .

[ipgd]

XX55XX wrote...

Again, with the ad hominem attacks. "You disapprove of having a character's sexuality ret-conned, so you must hate gay people!"

Yet again, you cannot Retcon something that was never established. A change to the "straight" love interests' sexualities may be a change on a meta level, but there is nothing within the narrative itself that suggests any of these characters have defined, concrete sexualities. You are making an inference and an assumption from metagame knowledge, which is different from an established fact of the continuity. In order for something to be a retcon, it has to be directly contradicting something that was an established fact of the continuity. Your personal inferences and assumptions are not established facts of the continuity, and contradicting them does not make a change a retcon.

If every change to a character that wasn't planned from the beginning at a meta level was a retcon everything would be a frigging retcon. The only difference is that we would know about this change. Yes, this is entirely a petty semantic argument.

Furthermore, I don't know of any of us who actually advocate that existing LIs have their sexualities changed. I really don't care if they do or if there are new s/s LIs. The only reason we are arguing is because people are making it out to be the end of the world and a character ruining change. Which it wouldn't be. But I don't actively want them to do that.

Modifié par ipgd, 20 mai 2011 - 03:49 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Cartims wrote...

One would hope that in the future (mass effect setting) we would have evolved enough and overcome our foolish prejudices and hatred...this should be a none issue.....the reapers are "coming."....I want to also...with the person of my CHOOSING...

As a matter of fact, this is explicitly stated and going forward, consistently implied, in the ME novels. It's a freer, more liberal society that has largely shed it's racial and sexual prejudices. This was also confirmed by various developer comments in interviews during the production of ME1.

That said, we should drop this. Discussion of real-world issues are not germane to the topic of romantic relationships with fictional characters in Mass Effect.

[Ashira Shepard]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...
Well, kind of.  Evolution kills off weaker gene combinations in favor of those better adapted to survive.  Nature may like diversity, but she'll unabashedly kill off whoever's not keeping up.  In fact, she's been known to dabble in genocide.

Well since the space and resources on earth are finite, I think she'd love to make us slow the f*ck down on the whole procreation business...

[Wygrath]

Please don't retcon previously straight characters into gay ones. Just make new characters if you want to shoe horn these ridiculously shallow and contrived "romance" options into your games.

It's gotten out of hand. The community seems more worried about these crappy romances than they are about the gameplay and story.

The narrative should dictate whether or not a character should be romancable. If it doesn't add to the narrative and help drive the story it's pointless. If you want to make a dating sim make a new game.

Don't shoehorn romance options into every character just for the sake of having them. The character suicide you guys had with Anders is a perfect example of what not to do. Homosexual options for Fenris seemed out of place as well. It didn't fit the character and seemed to just be forced in to have a Zevran proxy.

Mass Effect desrves to have it's integrity intact for the finale. Retconning existing characters is not the way to do that.

[jeweledleah]

TommyServo wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

  you don't get to determine who and what npc's are, you only get to decide how your Shepard interacts with them and as a consequence, how they percieve your Shepard.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

I feel that you do get to influence who they become. I admit that it's not to a huge degree, but it is inarguably present. It would be great if that was fleshed out even more.

Besides, in the case of Garrus, Shepard clearly determines whether he percieves her as a romantic companion. What's the problem if this applies to one or two other characters as well? As long as they are consistent in terms of a given playthrough, everything is cool.

the potential. its important.  sometimes it feels like people are all arguing their own point and each and everyone of them is different.  every Garrus in every game can potentialy fall for Shepard should she chose to pursue him.  chosing not to do something doesn't negate your ability to do so.  I may be playing a jerk renegade who hates her crew, but the option to hug Tali - it still pops up. 

Having a choice to do or not to do something is great.  but not taking a choice doesn't mean it doesn't exist in your game.  it just means you didn't take it. 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 20 mai 2011 - 03:53 .

[GameBoyish]

ipgd wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Again, with the ad hominem attacks. "You disapprove of having a character's sexuality ret-conned, so you must hate gay people!"

Yet again, you cannot Retcon something that was never established. A change to the "straight" love interests' sexualities may be a change on a meta level, but there is nothing within the narrative itself that suggests any of these characters have defined, concrete sexualities. You are making an inference and an assumption from metagame knowledge, which is different from an established fact of the continuity. In order for something to be a retcon, it has to be directly contradicting something that was an established fact of the continuity. Your personal inferences and assumptions are not established facts of the continuity, and contradicting them does not make a change a retcon.

If every change to a character that wasn't planned from the beginning at a meta level was a retcon everything would be a frigging retcon. The only difference is that we would know about this change. Yes, this is entirely a petty semantic argument.

Furthermore, I don't know of any of us who actually advocate that existing LIs have their sexualities changed. I really don't care if they do or if there are new s/s LIs. The only reason we are arguing is because people are making it out to be the end of the world and a character ruining change. Which it wouldn't be. But I don't actively want them to do that.

This :happy:

[Siansonea]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Pro tip: Genetic diversity HELPS a species. Removing genetic diversity is much more damaging than having a few individuals who don't directly contribute to procreation. 

Well, kind of.  Evolution kills off weaker gene combinations in favor of those better adapted to survive.  Nature may like diversity, but she'll unabashedly kill off whoever's not keeping up.  In fact, she's been known to dabble in genocide.

Off-topic, but yeah, nature doesn't care about our cultural ideas. But nature does favor lots of different gene combinations. It lessens the likelihood that a single virus or other type of infection could destroy a species in one shot. And the fact that homosexuality in particular is a trait that occurs throughout the human population, as well amongst many animal species, tells me that it's a pretty basic part of our makeup. If it ain't broke (and just because little boys on the Internet find it icky, it AIN'T broke), why "fix" it? That's like "curing" red hair.

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

[Siansonea]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...
Well, kind of.  Evolution kills off weaker gene combinations in favor of those better adapted to survive.  Nature may like diversity, but she'll unabashedly kill off whoever's not keeping up.  In fact, she's been known to dabble in genocide.

Well since the space and resources on earth are finite, I think she'd love to make us slow the f*ck down on the whole procreation business...

Yeah, if ever there was a species that could use a genophage, it's humans. 

[jeweledleah]

Siansonea II wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Pro tip: Genetic diversity HELPS a species. Removing genetic diversity is much more damaging than having a few individuals who don't directly contribute to procreation. 

Well, kind of.  Evolution kills off weaker gene combinations in favor of those better adapted to survive.  Nature may like diversity, but she'll unabashedly kill off whoever's not keeping up.  In fact, she's been known to dabble in genocide.

Off-topic, but yeah, nature doesn't care about our cultural ideas. But nature does favor lots of different gene combinations. It lessens the likelihood that a single virus or other type of infection could destroy a species in one shot. And the fact that homosexuality in particular is a trait that occurs throughout the human population, as well amongst many animal species, tells me that it's a pretty basic part of our makeup. If it ain't broke (and just because little boys on the Internet find it icky, it AIN'T broke), why "fix" it? That's like "curing" red hair.

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

wouldn't that depend purely on personal preference?  any of the body type can work, I honestly don't think one is better then the other.

[Ashira Shepard]

Erani wrote...
S/S romances have been confirmed. Let's discuss the implementation, give suggestions, share on-topic ideas etc. 

I would love it if Kasumi was made as a new LI.
Though I still pine for Samara...

In any case, I would just hope for the romance in question to stay true to the character's personality, if they seem like they would be casual about it, unsure or nervous, then make it so. You could implement it easily so long as it still seemed like the character.

Even then they could show a different side of the character, someone previously confident could become nervous and unsure. I could picture Miranda being unsure with a femshep purely because she was built to be "perfect" and maybe thinks a perfect woman only likes men. That could make for an interesting relationship...

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 20 mai 2011 - 04:00 .

[Erani]

rynluna wrote...

Erani wrote...
I understand other characters such as Garrus, Wrex (LOL) or Ashley would need extremely smart writing to make an attraction to same-sex Shepard plausible. This is not to say it can't be done, but it'd be a bit more problematic IMO.

In any case, I do not consider a bi Tali in ME3 to be a retcon.

Why do you think it might need some smart writing to make Ashley a convincing s/s romance option in ME3?

My opinion is that it won't be that difficult.  I've always thought that she was serious about her soldier career and she even mentions that fraternization is a no-no in ME1.  In the final foray with the Reapers, I can see Ashley forgetting about her career and finally giving into her feelings.

Oh, I didn't mean that it can't be done, or that it'd be a retcon. In fact, none of those characters being bi would qualify as retcon since their sexuality has never been established. In the case of Ashley, I just meant that given her attitude towards aliens, it'd require good writing to explain how she'd be open-minded about acting on her feelings in a f/f relationship when s/s pairings are about as common or less than inter-species pairings.

[ipgd]

Siansonea II wrote...

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character?

I'd like a m/m option with Miranda's body type.


What?

[Siansonea]

Wygrath wrote...

Please don't retcon previously straight characters into gay ones. Just make new characters if you want to shoe horn these ridiculously shallow and contrived "romance" options into your games.

It's gotten out of hand. The community seems more worried about these crappy romances than they are about the gameplay and story.

The narrative should dictate whether or not a character should be romancable. If it doesn't add to the narrative and help drive the story it's pointless. If you want to make a dating sim make a new game.

Don't shoehorn romance options into every character just for the sake of having them. The character suicide you guys had with Anders is a perfect example of what not to do. Homosexual options for Fenris seemed out of place as well. It didn't fit the character and seemed to just be forced in to have a Zevran proxy.

Mass Effect desrves to have it's integrity intact for the finale. Retconning existing characters is not the way to do that.

Your avatar is really hot. I think he should be the new m/m LI option for ME3.

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Pro tip: Genetic diversity HELPS a species. Removing genetic diversity is much more damaging than having a few individuals who don't directly contribute to procreation. 

Well, kind of.  Evolution kills off weaker gene combinations in favor of those better adapted to survive.  Nature may like diversity, but she'll unabashedly kill off whoever's not keeping up.  In fact, she's been known to dabble in genocide.

Off-topic, but yeah, nature doesn't care about our cultural ideas. But nature does favor lots of different gene combinations. It lessens the likelihood that a single virus or other type of infection could destroy a species in one shot. And the fact that homosexuality in particular is a trait that occurs throughout the human population, as well amongst many animal species, tells me that it's a pretty basic part of our makeup. If it ain't broke (and just because little boys on the Internet find it icky, it AIN'T broke), why "fix" it? That's like "curing" red hair.

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

wouldn't that depend purely on personal preference?  any of the body type can work, I honestly don't think one is better then the other.

I'm asking for people's personal preferences. You don't have one?

[Erani]

Luna Siwora wrote...

rynluna wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

Jacob's body type makes me giggle...no offense.  Kaidan is handsome.  I love all teh womens but I really love Kasumi's body type.

Kasumi's body FTW! I love it too. :3

Yes! Kasumi's and Kaidan's body types are my favorite.

[wheelyjon]

XX55XX wrote...

This again! Well, I approve of any sexuality in any media, simply because it is a human trait afterall (in the context of the topic anyway). So why hide it and then demonize it because one isn't like the other in spite of our common "humaness".

I, demonize homosexuality? Excuse me, but I do have a few homosexual friends and could care less who they bed with. I am only 20, and I have been grown up with the notion that we respect everyone, regardless of their race, age, or sexual orientation. I am not the byproduct of an older era. Now, you are just off your rocker there. Stop generalizing those of us who disapprove of ret-cons.

Where is it canon in the ME series that Tali was straight in orientation? Where is it ever mentioned by her or any other character in the ME series that she is straight? She wasn't even romanceable in ME1 anyway. Bottom line is, the game is an RPG, and you can choose to play her to the orientation you wish, so it really shouldn't be an issue.

You know, if BioWare set it up that way to begin with, I would have less of an issue with that. But, having Tali, for example, be available to only those who play as male Shepards point to some sort of attempt by BioWare to enforce a degree of

Same as I mentioned above since her orientation has never been mentioned, so retconning cannot apply. Play ME2 and she all but says she would join suits with a femshep.

And, what does this suggest? That comment can be interpreted in a variety of ways, and your interpretation is probably no more convincing than my interpretation of that comment.

Now you're just generalizing the whole as to demonize homosexuality again. You have a chocie to be or not to be when playing an RPG, it really is that simple..

Again, with the ad hominem attacks. "You disapprove of having a character's sexuality ret-conned, so you must hate gay people!"

if it helps i don't think that though i did like your defence of yoursef so please don't take this as an attack, but I think in a lot of cases it not re-conning becuase previus relaytionships anit mentioned and again i point to Black Raptor  it a game every 'New Game' makes a new world' so they don't have to be reconned if you don't want it ( you being a gengrel you and not YOU with me wagging a finger lol) tai for example is completely blind to to the fact kal riger fancys her or is cutting him dead because she fanced str8 shep if you ronce her or she like the ladies lol if in a new fem shep world its possible, but deosnt have to be. and as for kadain and ash i talked about how you can rewrite a sexuality without changing who they are using my real life story arc up so it not even I rewritten but I reinstatement of an old idea but i wont put it all here again if you like flick bk page and let me know what you think mate. pm if you like to not side track the forum be good to hear what you think . nice to hear someone’s saying ‘no’ to idea with reason and politeness  and you should never be hated for it - even if i dont agree with the point lol. you have the right to make it, and it was a rewrite issue not a sexuality one - so come on whoever didn’t read it properly  back off lol hope that helps my friend

[GameBoyish]

rynluna wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

Jacob's body type makes me giggle...no offense.  Kaidan is handsome.  I love all the womens but I really love Kasumi's body type.

GIVE IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN...............

Modifié par TriviaAeducan, 20 mai 2011 - 04:03 .

[M-Sinistrari]

Wygrath wrote...

Please don't retcon previously straight characters into gay ones. Just make new characters if you want to shoe horn these ridiculously shallow and contrived "romance" options into your games.

It's gotten out of hand. The community seems more worried about these crappy romances than they are about the gameplay and story.

The narrative should dictate whether or not a character should be romancable. If it doesn't add to the narrative and help drive the story it's pointless. If you want to make a dating sim make a new game.

Don't shoehorn romance options into every character just for the sake of having them. The character suicide you guys had with Anders is a perfect example of what not to do. Homosexual options for Fenris seemed out of place as well. It didn't fit the character and seemed to just be forced in to have a Zevran proxy.

Mass Effect desrves to have it's integrity intact for the finale. Retconning existing characters is not the way to do that.

I do understand your concerns. And yes it does seem like all everyone's talking about is romances but at this point it's the only recent info we've got about ME3 at this point and come E3, we'll have new stuff to talk and speculate on.

Now onto your other points.  The DA team isn't working on ME, and from what we've seen, that's a very good thing.  The ME team really hasn't dropped the ball (well, I do have some gripes about the Arrival DLC), so we can have good hopes that we'll again see some quality work from them for ME3.

Romances are optional for the game, but do add that little human dimension so Shep has something closer to home so to speak that's worth fighting for.  As Mordin said, it's easy to lose one's perspective in the grand scope of things.

At this time there's been nothing definitively said from Bioware that without question they will be expanding established LIs to have s/s options.  All anyone's doing is speculating like a mad thing.  Their statement about no new LIs has since been repeatedly said was from old information and they've since changed thier stance on it.

For all we know it'll only be the new LIs who'll have the s/s option, and if they happen to decide to expand established LIs for s/s, that won't affect the choices you've already made for  your Shepards.  Only one who can change those is you.

I think we all share the opinion that if they do expand the established LI's options, that they'll ensure that there's quality writing to explain it, and give us a better worded dialog wheel so everyone's able to make sure they've make the right respective choices for thier Shepards.

[Ashira Shepard]

Siansonea II wrote...
On topic: Who has the best body type for a s/s LI character? Not the character themselves, just the body type. For instance, would you rather have a m/m option with Jacob's body type, or Kaidan's? Miranda's, Jack's, or something in between?

Stuck between Samara, Kasumi and Miranda.

Although I only liked Miranda's waist in her black costume, so she's ruled out for me...

Hrm... Kasumi! I love small, curvy ladies.

[jeweledleah]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm asking for people's personal preferences. You don't have one?

I do, but they have nothing to do with which of them would make a best same sex option, only what I personaly find more appealing.  I think all of the bodytypes will work perfectly great as same sex option, in fact, variety would only make it more fun.

but if we're talking what I personaly find most atractive?  according to preliminary descriptions, that would be James Vega.