6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Clonedzero wrote...
i have a personal problem with bad writing. yes.

its simply bad writing to change characters in such a fundemental way so late in a series.

for one of the established characters to suddenly reveal that they're bi when there wasnt a single hint or reference earlier is pretty bad. hell its generally regarded as bad writing to suddenly add in new facts that completely change the dynamic of situations. whether that be sexual preference, or a deus ex machina.

the simple fact of the matter is that for an established character to suddenly and unexpectedly reveal that they are bi so you can have a happy s/s relationship with them IS a deus ex machina. its a bad writing tool. theres no character development, theres no character growth, theres no story arch. its BAD WRITING.

the reason i was saying the VS is the best choice for a s/s relationship is because they have the most reasonable reason to have no revealed that fact yet, and they were gone for all of ME2.

You have a problem with bad writing.  Okay.  You have a problem with bad writing you've not even seen, heard, or experienced yet.  Not okay.

The idea that every bi character has to specifically tell you or imply that they're bisexual in order for them to be written well is absurd.

A character revealing that they're bisexual "late in the game" does not automatically mean it's not done without character development.  The example I like to bring up is Willow and Tara from Buffy.  I guess Willow's falling for Tara has to be bad writing, plot device, and deus machina because she only ever gave us examples of her liking men prior to that, right?

[Siansonea]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...


*snip*again. my arguement isnt that its not possible.
its that it'd feel very forced, awkward, and would end up being poorly written and regarded as a bad romance by a vast majority of the fans.


it could happen sure. it'd just be really poorly written and absolutely feel like forced fanservice.


and i'd actually love some compelling reasons for a bi relationship to form OTHER than "well they never said they werent bi" because again. WORST REASON EVER.

trouble is the precedent was set when you could romance garrus/tali physically in ME2, when the likelihood of killing at least one of them just by doing so was close to 100% and both being completely biologically incompatible.

OMG THIS. To me, the Garrus and Tali romances in ME2 were beyond ridiculous, they made no sense with regard to the established characters of Garrus and Tali, and basic biology, etc. Asari make sense as alien love interests, because of their physiology, but dextro-chiral aliens have body chemistry that is hostile toward levo-chiral aliens like humans. It just made no sense to me that Shepard would go there with either one of them, not to mention all of the non-biology reasons for the romances seeming forced. Tali, the dedicated quarian patriot, is going to give up having a quarian child, and potentially risk death, just for some sexytimes with a human? Really? Garrus, after all he's been through, is really that open to suggestion from Shepard? I never got the impression that Garrus was into it at all with FemShep, just kind of going with it out of gratitude or "turian obedience" or whatever.


On the other hand, Kaidan remarking that Shepard doesn't know everything about his past, and revealing that he had a crush on ManShep, or now has a crush on ManShep, or something similar, is really not unrealistic. They're both human, at least. And humans don't tell each other everything all the time. Same goes for Miranda, she could have had all sorts of reasons for not pursuing FemShep before, and not all of them would be stupid fanservice bad romance reasons. 


So for me, human bisexuals are relatively easy to implement, but the non-asari alien romances are bizarre to begin with, and would be every bit as bizarre for s/s. But not MORE bizarre.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[Whatever42]

Oh, I think Bioware can handle it correctly. If they just introduce a s/s romance or two for all the pining gay Shepard's out there, that's fine. If they retcon my crew, that's annoying.

What would be worse is if suddenly everyone was bi. I'm sorry but I found DA2 kind of creepy that way with every second dialogue option being flirting. ME2 was even a little creepy with my maleshep being able to sleep with pretty much every female on the ship. It didn't feel like romance, it felt like a sleezy singles bar. Being able to sleep with every male, female, and hamster on the ship just gets creepier.

[Darth Death]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Your Shepard was a straight male for the last two games.

Other peoples Shepard's have been homosexual men waiting for the right guy to come along.

The option never presented itself for the male Shepherd to be ******, only in the minds of those players fantasizing for gayness. 

[RohanDaKitty]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Cootie wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

nope the game will be great, but people with a romance agenda as a big priority will be unhappy - too much =unhappy. too little = unhappy. certain characters only = unhappy. see?

I'm just curious how this will affect your (general you, not really you-you.)game if you already have an LI from the first few games or if you've got a single, straight Shepard. It's not like the option compells you through dark magics.
You're still assuming the sky will fall and crush everyone.

In space.

There isn't even a sky in space, by the by.

garrus following up his reach and flexibility story with a one involving m-turian love? yeah that's be a tad creepy after how many years of friendship now? tbh apart from that, my romances are set, i just wait to see if i'll get proper fulfilment from them or the new game-facets will lead to them all being diluted.

We never know. Turian women might look incrediably manly, from a Human perspective. It's not uncommon on our planet for the female of a species to be larger and sometimes stronger too.

[CroGamer002]

k177sh0t wrote...

So, this is BioWare's reply to  "EA Tweaking Mass Effect 3 to Appeal to Wider Market"?

Hopefully, there wont be a character thats similar to Anders that keeps hitting on my Shepard then denying the character and ending up with renegade points.

Agreed.

Anders is bad way to have male bisexual character in game.


Zevran is great example for having male bisexual character.
Fenris is kinda OK.
Alistair is... plain weird.

[Ashira Shepard]

Thekill_3 wrote...
Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?

Exactly!

I mean, TheKill. Is your Shepard a misanthrope who drinks jack daniels and listens to hard rock?

I wouldn't honestly assume so because that's my Shepard.
I wouldn't assume everyone elses's Shepard is like mine either. A lot of the Shepard's out there would probably find mine quite alarming with her contradictory nature.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Having options in your dialogue should not be creepy. That'd be like me saying I find it creepy that a lot of the renegade options exist, and trying to use that "creepiness" in an argument to have them abolished.

That wouldn't fly. If you don't want to flirt with a dude then don't select the flirt option. The presence of said option does not define or threaten your own sexuality.

[RohanDaKitty]

Darth Death wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Your Shepard was a straight male for the last two games.

Other peoples Shepard's have been homosexual men waiting for the right guy to come along.

The option never presented itself for the male Shepherd to be ******, only in the minds of those players fantasizing for gayness. 

You obviously never saw my Shepard, taking down the collectors in fabulously hot pink armour.

[Recon Member]

Mesina2 wrote...
Alistair is... plain weird.

Good thing he's a mod.

Modifié par Thekill_3, 16 mai 2011 - 03:25 .

[CubbieBlue66]

Reactive to how we interact with them?

Please don't tell me it's gonna be another "they're gay if you're a dude. they're straight if you're a chick" system like in DA2. I never could muster up any emotion about any of the potential LI in that game... in large part because having such a key characteristic as their sexuality so nebulously defined detracted from their character.

Make no mistake, I have no qualms with having same-sex romance options. I just want them to make sense for the character. And I want that character to have some degree of persistence through multiple playthroughs... not the boondoggle I get when trying to think about Anders after having played through that game as a male and a female.

[Jebel Krong]

RohanDaKitty wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Cootie wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

nope the game will be great, but people with a romance agenda as a big priority will be unhappy - too much =unhappy. too little = unhappy. certain characters only = unhappy. see?

I'm just curious how this will affect your (general you, not really you-you.)game if you already have an LI from the first few games or if you've got a single, straight Shepard. It's not like the option compells you through dark magics.
You're still assuming the sky will fall and crush everyone.

In space.

There isn't even a sky in space, by the by.

garrus following up his reach and flexibility story with a one involving m-turian love? yeah that's be a tad creepy after how many years of friendship now? tbh apart from that, my romances are set, i just wait to see if i'll get proper fulfilment from them or the new game-facets will lead to them all being diluted.

We never know. Turian women might look incrediably manly, from a Human perspective. It's not uncommon on our planet for the female of a species to be larger and sometimes stronger too.

or eat the male after sex. 

[Darth Death]

Thekill_3 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?

Where did I say that? 

[Ryzaki]

Mesina2 wrote...

k177sh0t wrote...

So, this is BioWare's reply to  "EA Tweaking Mass Effect 3 to Appeal to Wider Market"?

Hopefully, there wont be a character thats similar to Anders that keeps hitting on my Shepard then denying the character and ending up with renegade points.

Agreed.

Anders is bad way to have male bisexual character in game.


Zevran is great example for having male bisexual character.
Fenris is kinda OK.
Alistair is... plain weird.

Not Zevran. Fenris is fine. 

I disliked Zevran strongly and for some reason he had people believing the "all bisexuals are overt and wear their sexuality on their sleeve." sterotype. That was irksome. 

Frankly I'd prefer something like Sky for ME (even with the whole having to reject all females before being able to talk to him bit). 

If there has to be a toggle to turn the gay romances off I want everyone on the squad bisexual. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Darth Death wrote...
The option never presented itself for the male Shepherd to be ******, only in the minds of those players fantasizing for gayness.

Maybe so, but that 'fantasizing' is the whole point of roleplaying is it not? You play the role of your character? Some people will role play a gay character.

How exactly is it fair that people can role play a gay Female Shepard but not a gay Male Shepard?

Besides, it's not like you're going to pursue the M/M romance path with your Shepard, so why are you worrying?

[Siansonea]

Darth Death wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Your Shepard was a straight male for the last two games.

Other peoples Shepard's have been homosexual men waiting for the right guy to come along.

The option never presented itself for the male Shepherd to be ******, only in the minds of those players fantasizing for gayness. 

Well, the game never forced anyone's Shepard to proclaim "his" exclusive heterosexuality either.

[CARL_DF90]

The Garrus and Tali romances were basically fan service. People talked/screamed about it, and even made fanfics about it. Bioware noticed this and like any other good company they gave the people what they wanted. It's that simple to be honest, although it MIGHT look ridiculous to some.

[Lenimph]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

Reactive to how we interact with them?

Please don't tell me it's gonna be another "they're gay if you're a dude. they're straight if you're a chick" system like in DA2. I never could muster up any emotion about any of the potential LI in that game... in large part because having such a key characteristic as their sexuality so nebulously defined detracted from their character.

I'm pretty sure "interacting" is not being a certain gender.  
It's something like talking.

Modifié par Lenimph, 16 mai 2011 - 03:27 .

[DaeJi]

Darth Death wrote...

Where did I say that? 

When you said that the male Shepard was straight. It was entirely possible to be play him as gay; he just didn't have anyone to be with if that was the case.

[Ashira Shepard]

Darth Death wrote...
Where did I say that? 

Your assumption here ->

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that?
And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that
means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously
turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

That everyone elses male Shepard was a straight male.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Shepard isn't gay.

[RohanDaKitty]

Darth Death wrote...

Thekill_3 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?

Where did I say that? 

Um right here:

Darth Death wrote...

The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? 

Your Shepard was straight the past two games. Mine wasn't. Just because there was no way of expresing same-sex attraction doesn't mean he was inherrantly 'straight' He did have a freaking Galaxy to save. Settling down with his and his Normandy's in the garage wasn't high on his priority list.

[DaeJi]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Shepard isn't gay.

But his boyfriend is. Hey oh!

[Lenimph]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Shepard isn't gay.

 
Mine is... 

[Recon Member]

AshiraShepard wrote...
I mean, TheKill. Is your Shepard a misanthrope who drinks jack daniels and listens to hard rock?

I wouldn't honestly assume so because that's my Shepard.
I wouldn't assume everyone elses's Shepard is like mine either. A lot of the Shepard's out there would probably find mine quite alarming with her contradictory nature.

Why no, Ashira. He's someone who enjoyes Johnny Walker and listens to Jazz. My Shepard is unique, and no one
says differently.