6696 réponses à ce sujet

[M-Sinistrari]

Erani wrote...

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Erani wrote...

The cheating factor might be the most important one. If you didn't cheat on them, most likely he/she will be happy to be reunited with you and give Shep a chance to explain how everything went down with Cerberus. If Shep did cheat, I think they'll be pissed. I wouldn't be surprised if they ask Shep to give them some time to think about the betrayal and whatnot.
The decision at the end of ME2 (keep base or not) might also have an impact on the romance. 

Ooh, I forgot about the base decision.  Yeah, that'd definitely have some impact.  And now that I think on it, some of the sidequests like with the Cerberus data might figure in too.

Maybe the genophage decision too? Also, if you saved your crew, they might like that. 

And that one where you've got to decide what gets blown up by that missle, the colony or the space port.

[Maugrim]

TheMarshal wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

What about their character do you believe will change if they are open to/have had s/s romances in the past but are in a heterosexual relationship at the present?  I highly doubt you're expecting Garrus to go mincing about the Normandy wearing a fantastically over-the-top ascot and talking about theatre...

Denials to the contrary it's exactly the type of thing that's expected.  Because sexuality and personality are inexorably tied and can't vary from person to person.

[PlumPaul93]

TheMarshal wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

What about their character do you believe will change if they are open to/have had s/s romances in the past but are in a heterosexual relationship at the present?  I highly doubt you're expecting Garrus to go mincing about the Normandy wearing a fantastically over-the-top ascot and talking about theatre...

I really don't know it's somewhat like the anders thing. Went from being cool in awakening to being a crybaby who hit on hawke. Whether or not it's because he's bi I don't know but I doubt it. The DA team and ME team are different but I'd say there is a right to be concerned.

[Siansonea]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

Yeah...and the anti-gay folks are being SO respectful. What was that one from yesterday "s/s fanatics?" Hmmm, yeah, not respectful. When people come in and say "I don't mean to offend but [insert blatantly offensive statement here]", you can't claim the high road on a technicality.

This is typical, by the way. You can't beat us with logic, because logic is clearly on our side, so you call us "holier-than-thou". This is often code for "they're right, and they know it". 

[Siansonea]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

What about their character do you believe will change if they are open to/have had s/s romances in the past but are in a heterosexual relationship at the present?  I highly doubt you're expecting Garrus to go mincing about the Normandy wearing a fantastically over-the-top ascot and talking about theatre...

I really don't know it's somewhat like the anders thing. Went from being cool in awakening to being a crybaby who hit on hawke. Whether or not it's because he's bi I don't know but I doubt it. The DA team and ME team are different but I'd say there is a right to be concerned.

Gosh, none of that character change could be attributed to fusing with a spirit of Justice, could it? No?

[Wereparrot]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...


As long as the thread is full of ignorant homophobes, the arguments will never end.

This is the sort of holier-than-thou attitude I complained about yesterday.

Please do not make the mistake that dissent towards the inclusion of bi characters is the same thing as homophobia.

Then what is it? What is the issue?

I wash my hands of this thread. I am not repeating myself again; if you want to know my arguments against this development please go back to around pages 160-180 I think. But I tell you now that I have not made homophobic comments, so to claim that the entire case against this issue is homophobic and this thread is full of homophobes is ignorant in itself.

Denial. If one wants to romance a same sexed character why can they not have that choice? That is phobia against the ******'s

And now you see why I wash my hands of this thread.

You wash your hands because you don't want to address why we should not have the same options? Seems that way.

Have you read my posts from yesterday? No? Run along and do that then, if you wish to continue this discussion.

You have no idea what I have read and what I haven't. Less of the condescending attitude and we might agree to disagree for now

It's what you get for accusing me of homophobia. Right now, I'm not interested in any arguements for or against, so yes we must agree to disagree-what I take issue with is the far too abundant accusations of homophobia. So, having read my posts, please explain to me why they are homophobic, because personally I see nothing but reasoned dissent. What you make of that reason is up to you.

[Erani]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Erani wrote...
Maybe the genophage decision too? Also, if you saved your crew, they might like that. 

And that one where you've got to decide what gets blown up by that missle, the colony or the space port.

Yes, some of those side missions actually had very far-reaching consequences. I love the idea of a smaller squad this time, maybe 6-8 members, with most of them being old friends with Shep except for Vega. The romances (both gay and straight) and friendship arcs will definitively have more depth this time around.<3

[PlumPaul93]

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

Yeah...and the anti-gay folks are being SO respectful. What was that one from yesterday "s/s fanatics?" Hmmm, yeah, not respectful. When people come in and say "I don't mean to offend but [insert blatantly offensive statement here]", you can't claim the high road on a technicality.

This is typical, by the way. You can't beat us with logic, because logic is clearly on our side, so you call us "holier-than-thou". This is often code for "they're right, and they know it". 

and you don't call this hollier-than-thou? I really don't see why you guys try to pick fights when people aren't even trying to fight with you. I said nothing in my post that you should take issue with. I said yesterday fanatics might not have been a proper term, but when a thread has reached 5,500 posts in 5 days what is it?

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 20 mai 2011 - 06:34 .

[Polliot]

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

Yeah...and the anti-gay folks are being SO respectful. What was that one from yesterday "s/s fanatics?" Hmmm, yeah, not respectful. When people come in and say "I don't mean to offend but [insert blatantly offensive statement here]", you can't claim the high road on a technicality.

This is typical, by the way. You can't beat us with logic, because logic is clearly on our side, so you call us "holier-than-thou". This is often code for "they're right, and they know it". 

No,you think that logic is on your side. I very much disagree. And I personally find you one of the most offensive and unreasonable people here.
Also,it's not our fault that you get offended by the truth.

[M-Sinistrari]

Nyoka wrote...

Whoa, aren't you putting a little too much stuff on it? I mean maybe you can talk with the VS about some of the things you did on ME2, the genophage, the base... but I think the romance concretely should only involve stuff that affects their relationship directly, like the cheating or Shepard's relation with Cerberus. It would be simpler to do and it should delimit better the romance options you have to pick.

In any case, I'd like an apology, maybe not immediately, but after a couple conversations, when the initial tension is gone. The VS was unfair to Shepard in Horizon.

I'm looking at things that the VS might hear through reports and rumours that could potentially shape thier view of Shepard either as a Cerberus tool or was just stuck up the creek for a bit.  Being questioned about things can very well effect the relationship between them be it friendship or romance.

[Erani]

Nyoka wrote...

Whoa, aren't you putting a little too much stuff on it? I mean maybe you can talk with the VS about some of the things you did on ME2, the genophage, the base... but I think the romance concretely should only involve stuff that affects their relationship directly, like the cheating or Shepard's relation with Cerberus. It would be simpler to do and it should delimit better the romance options you have to pick.

In any case, I'd like an apology, maybe not immediately, but after a couple conversations, when the initial tension is gone. The VS was unfair to Shepard in Horizon.

I'm thinking about just one conversation where those things are discussed, mainly having to do with Shepard's guilt or worry regarding certain actions....kinda like in LOTSB. Also, in the case of the romanced VS, it'd make sense for them to discuss such things especially Cerberus-related stuff.

P.S: I'm loving the two parallel discussions.<3

Modifié par Erani, 20 mai 2011 - 06:40 .

[PlumPaul93]

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

What about their character do you believe will change if they are open to/have had s/s romances in the past but are in a heterosexual relationship at the present?  I highly doubt you're expecting Garrus to go mincing about the Normandy wearing a fantastically over-the-top ascot and talking about theatre...

I really don't know it's somewhat like the anders thing. Went from being cool in awakening to being a crybaby who hit on hawke. Whether or not it's because he's bi I don't know but I doubt it. The DA team and ME team are different but I'd say there is a right to be concerned.

Gosh, none of that character change could be attributed to fusing with a spirit of Justice, could it? No?

Read my post champ

[Servo to the bitter end]

Wereparrot wrote...

It's what you get for accusing me of homophobia. Right now, I'm not interested in any arguements for or against, so yes we must agree to disagree-what I take issue with is the far too abundant accusations of homophobia. So, having read my posts, please explain to me why they are homophobic, because personally I see nothing but reasoned dissent. What you make of that reason is up to you.

Please nix the quote pyramids.

As I recall, here's a summary of your reasoned dissent. Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:

"But you're retconning existing characters!"
 
Okay, what about new characters?
 
"But Shepard was never gay!"
 
Okay, what about FemShep?
 
"He was never gay!"
 
You're ignoring FemShep and Liara. And Kelly.
 
"They don't count!"
 
Okay, why?
 
"Because!"
 
Okay, why was Shepard explicitly straight?
 
"He couldn't romance a male."
 
Herp derp, really? We didn't realize that.
 
"He couldn't for two games."
 
But in both of those games, there's no explicit evidence that he is or is not, yes? Maybe he's just waiting for someone to reciprocate?
 
"...Shepard's not gay!"

...

Modifié par TommyServo, 20 mai 2011 - 06:42 .

[SennenScale]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

I never did understand this issue AT ALL. Bi Anders was fine as well. IMHO if it wasn't mentioned that they were strictly straight then it should be fine.

*wants my Tali or Jack lesbian love*

I still can't believe people are latching onto Ander's biseuxality as what ruined him. I mean, really? Justice/Vengeance, his humor fading away, picking on Merrill, the emo robe...all that stuff doesn't merit cries of retcon in here, but the bisexuality does? Responding flirtaciously to you being nice and apologizing for it is that much worse than *insert major spoiler, everyone knows the one I'm talking about*

To get back on topic...yes, very much to Tali or Jack.

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, no self-respecting straight man would role-play as a gay character, would he?[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie] Oh wait, they would. Because it's, you know, a video game.
I play male characters all the time, and somehow I don't grow a penis,
so I'm thinking that these options are pretty free of side effects.

QFT.
I do the same. Hell, I play blonde or brunette women sometimes, but
that doesn't change my hair color, which is something that can actually
change naturally.

Linking any newcomers to the thread to Yahtzee's essay on the subject.

Erani wrote...

The cheating factor might be the most
important one. If you didn't cheat on them, most likely he/she will be
happy to be reunited with you and give Shep a chance to explain how
everything went down with Cerberus. If Shep did cheat, I think they'll
be pissed. I wouldn't be surprised if they ask Shep to give them some
time to think about the betrayal and whatnot.
The decision at the end of ME2 (keep base or not) might also have an impact on the romance. 

Bioware has already said as much, that cheating will have some impact in ME3. I do hope they mention the base decision (the VS) and give a comment on it at the very least. "You're not the same Commander Shepard I remember," "I'm...glad to hear that you didn't let Cerberus change you/push you around."

If being all pro-Cerberus doesn't lock you out of their romance, I imagine it will be like a rivalmance or Slap Slap Kiss.

[Erani]

SennenScale wrote...

If being all pro-Cerberus doesn't lock you out of their romance, I imagine it will be like a rivalmance or Slap Slap Kiss.

I wonder if cheating on Kaidan + pro-Cerberus will lock you out of the romance. He'd be 2Xpissed off.

[TheMarshal]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

I really don't know it's somewhat like the anders thing. Went from being cool in awakening to being a crybaby who hit on hawke. Whether or not it's because he's bi I don't know but I doubt it. The DA team and ME team are different but I'd say there is a right to be concerned.

I've yet to play DA:A or DA2, so I can't really comment onto any change in Anders' character.  Most of the complaints that I've seen about it are related to him 'suddenly' being bisexual, with no further explanation.

[SennenScale]

Erani wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

If being all pro-Cerberus doesn't lock you out of their romance, I imagine it will be like a rivalmance or Slap Slap Kiss.

I wonder if cheating on Kaidan + pro-Cerberus will lock you out of the romance. He'd be 2Xpissed off.

If they can lock out Garrus because you didn't recruit him, they ought to be able to make Kaidan get p'od because of cheating and working with a terrorist organization/rogue black op.

[M-Sinistrari]

Erani wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

If being all pro-Cerberus doesn't lock you out of their romance, I imagine it will be like a rivalmance or Slap Slap Kiss.

I wonder if cheating on Kaidan + pro-Cerberus will lock you out of the romance. He'd be 2Xpissed off.

Dammit, that'd add another playthrough I'll have to do.

[Servo to the bitter end]

TheMarshal wrote...

I've yet to play DA:A or DA2, so I can't really comment onto any change in Anders' character.  Most of the complaints that I've seen about it are related to him 'suddenly' being bisexual, with no further explanation.

It's based on throwaway line about wanting a pretty girl and a fool to shoot lightning at. Pretty flimsy, all in all.