6696 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

rynluna wrote...

I love you!
I think I'm totally going to make a FemShep in ME3 that resembles Gaga and has her attitude.

I'm curious how you will roleplay that one...

[jeweledleah]

Siansonea II wrote...

Gosh, none of that character change could be attributed to fusing with a spirit of Justice, could it? No?

actualy, according to a developer - Anders is bi-polar.  he was in manic stage for Awakenings.  which is honestly the first explanation that I've seen for his personality change that actualy makes sence, as well as the changes he wrought in character of Justice.  still doesn't change the fact that they basicaly retconned every possible awakening epilogue, but that's neither here nor there.


as for same sex romances specificaly with existing LI's. 

personal opinion and personal concern - implementation of said relationships

revealing that they are actualy bisexual - not a retcon.
starting same sex relationships with no explanation of why those relationships haven't happpened before  - eeeh, a bit of a retcon. (and IMO, "I was in love with you all along" subplot - cheesy retcon)
basicaly there are certain plot possibilities that will make me grit my teeth in frustration, bang my head on desk a few times at the ridiculousnes/cheesiness/etc of them and then I'll just sigh, accept their existance, and basicaly never play through them to completion, although it will most certainly affect how I see characters and as a consequence, what sort of endings/actions I will end up pursuing with them in general.

[Erani]

SennenScale wrote...

Erani wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

If being all pro-Cerberus doesn't lock you out of their romance, I imagine it will be like a rivalmance or Slap Slap Kiss.

I wonder if cheating on Kaidan + pro-Cerberus will lock you out of the romance. He'd be 2Xpissed off.

If they can lock out Garrus because you didn't recruit him, they ought to be able to make Kaidan get p'od because of cheating and working with a terrorist organization/rogue black op.

It'd be funny then if Kaidan were the m/m option, technically we couldn't get locked out since there was no way to cheat on him (unless Cerberus thing alone locks the romance)....Imagine the outcry of "gay content gets special priviledges"!  or "straight romances get punished"! 

[SennenScale]

jeweledleah wrote...


actualy, according to a developer - Anders is bi-polar.  he was in manic stage for Awakenings.  which is honestly the first explanation that I've seen for his personality change that actualy makes sence, as well as the changes he wrought in character of Justice. 

Hmm. Correct me if I am wrong...might have come from fanfic/fanon, but I seem to remember Anders having escaped from the Templars multiple times, but eventually being put into solitary confinement? That would explain away pretty much all the inconsistencies of Anders I've seen so far, in addition to being bi-polar.

Erani wrote...
It'd be funny then if Kaidan were the m/m
option, technically we couldn't get locked out since there was no way to
cheat on him (unless Cerberus thing alone locks the romance)....Imagine
the outcry of "gay content gets special priviledges"!  or "straight
romances get punished"! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Lol.
I'd be tempted to say "Nope, they're just punishing your little
cheatin' butt." but having a lock-out depend on the Cerberus thing would
work better. And it would be more mature of Kaidan/Ash to object to
Cerberus than "I hate you because you cheated on me when we were broken up".

Modifié par SennenScale, 20 mai 2011 - 07:00 .

[Wereparrot]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...
It's what you get for accusing me of homophobia. Right now, I'm not interested in any arguements for or against, so yes we must agree to disagree-what I take issue with is the far too abundant accusations of homophobia. So, having read my posts, please explain to me why they are homophobic, because personally I see nothing but reasoned dissent. What you make of that reason is up to you.

I infer homophobia. That is my right. We have agreed to disagree.

And I don't 'get' anything for 'accusing' you. As I said above, I infer homophobia, not accuse.

It's pretty much the same thing. I disagree with your accusation/inferal, and I find it insulting, because I have tried my level best to keep my posts free of anything that might cause offence. Others have not been so polite, so save your ire and do not tar us all with the same brush.

[mopotter]

TheMarshal wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

What about their character do you believe will change if they are open to/have had s/s romances in the past but are in a heterosexual relationship at the present?  I highly doubt you're expecting Garrus to go mincing about the Normandy wearing a fantastically over-the-top ascot and talking about theatre...

It's that "doing it right" part that makes me want 2 new SS characters.  The one thing I would hate is the dialog getting botched.  I'm tired of my female Shepard being called sir by some of the sales clerks or receptionist  just because they forgot to do both sir and mam.    

i really would be upset if the LI my Shepard has been romancing for one or two games suddenly says something that would be more appropriate to the opposite sex because BW forgot to do two separate lines and I really don't have a lot of confidence in this area,

I will be happy with new SS character romances however and by the time the game comes out I'll have a couple of Shepards ready to make their acquaintance.  

[Sunnie]

Polliot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

There is some holier-than-thou attitude in this thread. I think it's fair to say you don't want characters to be made bi if your worried that they'll change the character of a character. If they do it right it could work but if not...

Yeah...and the anti-gay folks are being SO respectful. What was that one from yesterday "s/s fanatics?" Hmmm, yeah, not respectful. When people come in and say "I don't mean to offend but [insert blatantly offensive statement here]", you can't claim the high road on a technicality.

This is typical, by the way. You can't beat us with logic, because logic is clearly on our side, so you call us "holier-than-thou". This is often code for "they're right, and they know it". 

No,you think that logic is on your side. I very much disagree. And I personally find you one of the most offensive and unreasonable people here.
Also,it's not our fault that you get offended by the truth.

And what "truth" is that?

Truth, as we know it, is very much in the eye of the beholder. Those that don't understand, refuse to understand, that are afraid of what they don't understand will always see truth in what they believe, whether it is baseless (which is usually the case) or not. Nobody here is offended by "the truth", many of us are offended by individuals that are so selfish and refuse to realise that a fictional set of characters won't ruin their heterosexual lifestyles. You fight against things that are completely optional and must be initiated by you in order to start them.

So, what is this "truth"?

[Zulmoka531]

jeweledleah wrote...
as for same sex romances specificaly with existing LI's. 

personal opinion and personal concern - implementation of said relationships

revealing that they are actualy bisexual - not a retcon.
starting same sex relationships with no explanation of why those relationships haven't happpened before  - eeeh, a bit of a retcon. (and IMO, "I was in love with you all along" subplot - cheesy retcon)
basicaly there are certain plot possibilities that will make me grit my teeth in frustration, bang my head on desk a few times at the ridiculousnes/cheesiness/etc of them and then I'll just sigh, accept their existance, and basicaly never play through them to completion, although it will most certainly affect how I see characters and as a consequence, what sort of endings/actions I will end up pursuing with them in general.

Like I said before in..wow it's been like almost 100 pages in terms of er, compromise it would probably be better to add bi/or straight out m/m (and or f/f, not sure what Bioware has planned) to newer Lis rather than adding it to previous characters. I think all parties would be happy with having their hopes and opinions recognized in such fashion.

One of DA2's lesser points for me, just personally, was making everyone Hawke-sexual, mostly becuase it sort of broke the feeling of unqiueness for each one of my Hawkes. Though perhaps that was more gameplay and lack of choices throughout the game, more than it was romance. (I think any of the characters could have gone either way...as well they did. Still would have liked some more preffered gender Hawkes though, wether that being strictly m/m or f/f, wouldn't bother me.)

And the more I think about rejection from parties members, the more I like it. It was actually a favorite part of DA2 for me when I had the option to flirt with Aveline but she just sort of took it as a compliment and moved on in the conversation, rather than it actually going anywhere.

[mopotter]

jeweledleah wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Gosh, none of that character change could be attributed to fusing with a spirit of Justice, could it? No?

actualy, according to a developer - Anders is bi-polar.  he was in manic stage for Awakenings.  which is honestly the first explanation that I've seen for his personality change that actualy makes sence, as well as the changes he wrought in character of Justice.  still doesn't change the fact that they basicaly retconned every possible awakening epilogue, but that's neither here nor there.


as for same sex romances specificaly with existing LI's. 

personal opinion and personal concern - implementation of said relationships

revealing that they are actualy bisexual - not a retcon.
starting same sex relationships with no explanation of why those relationships haven't happpened before  - eeeh, a bit of a retcon. (and IMO, "I was in love with you all along" subplot - cheesy retcon)
basicaly there are certain plot possibilities that will make me grit my teeth in frustration, bang my head on desk a few times at the ridiculousnes/cheesiness/etc of them and then I'll just sigh, accept their existance, and basicaly never play through them to completion, although it will most certainly affect how I see characters and as a consequence, what sort of endings/actions I will end up pursuing with them in general.

  Yes.  

For me, if it's new characters I'll have a couple of SS Shepards who will be very happy.  

If it's characters i already have in my previous games, I'll skip it all together even if i have not romanced them in a previous game (Tali/Garrus).  I like my characters to be consistent  no matter how many games I play and no matter which sex I'm playing.  
Having one of the previous characters change in ME3 does not work for me.  Having new characters does.    

[Captain Crash]

TommyServo wrote...

"But Shepard was never gay!"
 
Okay, what about FemShep?
 
"He was never gay!"
 
You're ignoring FemShep and Liara. And Kelly.
 
"They don't count!"
 
Okay, why?
 
"Because!"
 
Okay, why was Shepard explicitly straight?
 
"He couldn't romance a male."
 
Herp derp, really? We didn't realize that.
 
"He couldn't for two games."
 
But in both of those games, there's no explicit evidence that he is or is not, yes? Maybe he's just waiting for someone to reciprocate?
 
"...Shepard's not gay!"

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/515



Yep, never been a problem for femshep and her fans.     In fact the diversity is one the things that make her so successfull as theres so much to talk about.  Is my cannon Shepard gay?   No she isnt.   Does it bother me another femshep is Gay?  No why should it.   Everyone has their own playing styles and opinions,  it makes it such a much greater experience.


It was one of the few things that are different between femshep and manshep.  It should never have been unique to begin with so glad its no longer the case. 

[Siansonea]

 That comic is funneh. 

[ExtremeOne]

TommyServo wrote...

The first justification they used was "retcon!" While I don't think this is necessarily the case, I would accept it as a valid concern. Then when Casey tweeted that they would be adding new LIs, it became "Well, Shepard's never been gay." It was telling. Basically, they're uncomfortable with it for some reason, even when there's nothing contradictory whatsoever in it's implementation, and they're couching this in "concern for story." Wereparrot especially, was grasping at straws.

     



It is a retcon but I can deal with it by not buying ME 3 . This is a case of fan service is more important than creating Shepard's story.  But how dare you talk down to us that have a legit issue with this content being added to the game .  Shepard was straight in both games unless you include Liara but she does not matter she is a stupid alien .  They lost a ME 3 player in me and I will never buy any of their games again . 

[AngelicMachinery]

ExtremeOne wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

The first justification they used was "retcon!" While I don't think this is necessarily the case, I would accept it as a valid concern. Then when Casey tweeted that they would be adding new LIs, it became "Well, Shepard's never been gay." It was telling. Basically, they're uncomfortable with it for some reason, even when there's nothing contradictory whatsoever in it's implementation, and they're couching this in "concern for story." Wereparrot especially, was grasping at straws.

     



It is a retcon but I can deal with it by not buying ME 3 . This is a case of fan service is more important than creating Shepard's story.  But how dare you talk down to us that have a legit issue with this content being added to the game .  Shepard was straight in both games unless you include Liara but she does not matter she is a stupid alien .  They lost a ME 3 player in me and I will never buy any of their games again . 

Weren't you not buying the game anywhere?  What with cerberus being evulz?

[Erani]

Siansonea II wrote...

 That comic is funneh. 

FemShep is like so? 

[ExtremeOne]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

The first justification they used was "retcon!" While I don't think this is necessarily the case, I would accept it as a valid concern. Then when Casey tweeted that they would be adding new LIs, it became "Well, Shepard's never been gay." It was telling. Basically, they're uncomfortable with it for some reason, even when there's nothing contradictory whatsoever in it's implementation, and they're couching this in "concern for story." Wereparrot especially, was grasping at straws.

     



It is a retcon but I can deal with it by not buying ME 3 . This is a case of fan service is more important than creating Shepard's story.  But how dare you talk down to us that have a legit issue with this content being added to the game .  Shepard was straight in both games unless you include Liara but she does not matter she is a stupid alien .  They lost a ME 3 player in me and I will never buy any of their games again . 

Weren't you not buying the game anywhere?  What with cerberus being evulz?

    







The story of ME 3 was something that I could have over looked and just went with it . But this issue is something that I do not like at all .  

[Black Raptor]

ExtremeOne wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

The first justification they used was "retcon!" While I don't think this is necessarily the case, I would accept it as a valid concern. Then when Casey tweeted that they would be adding new LIs, it became "Well, Shepard's never been gay." It was telling. Basically, they're uncomfortable with it for some reason, even when there's nothing contradictory whatsoever in it's implementation, and they're couching this in "concern for story." Wereparrot especially, was grasping at straws.

     



It is a retcon but I can deal with it by not buying ME 3 . This is a case of fan service is more important than creating Shepard's story.  But how dare you talk down to us that have a legit issue with this content being added to the game .  Shepard was straight in both games unless you include Liara but she does not matter she is a stupid alien .  They lost a ME 3 player in me and I will never buy any of their games again . 

So you are not going to buy a game because people have the option of choosing a s/s romance? If you don't want to have a s/s romance, then your Shepard is not gay. Why should it matter what other people chose to do? 
If you don't romance anyone in the first two games, then there is nothing to suggest that Shepard isn't gay. 

[sevalaricgirl]

mopotter wrote...
If it's characters i already have in my previous games, I'll skip it all together even if i have not romanced them in a previous game (Tali/Garrus).  I like my characters to be consistent  no matter how many games I play and no matter which sex I'm playing.  
Having one of the previous characters change in ME3 does not work for me.  Having new characters does.    

Finally, the voice of reason.  I'm not against it, just against Kaidan being it.  I would definitely welcome new characters who are gay and happy to have them on my team I just don't want those who have been in game since the beginning to be retconned and whether people want to believe it or not, it is retconned.

[jeweledleah]

Nyoka wrote...

I have brought up the VS thing for one reason.

Look at what people have been saying about what should affect the reconciliation, how would the VS react to different circumstances... and now imagine the VS is Kaidan and Shepard is a man.

See? All those messages apply in any case, all are equally valid regardless of whether Shepard's relationship with the VS is a heterosexual relationship or a gay relationship. s/s relationships are no different to non s/s relationships. What matters to the former matters just as much to the latter.

There's no need to be afraid of teh gay, there's no reason to expect over the top melodramatic scenes, there's nothing indicating s/s relationships are in any way different in the game in terms of how they are depicted, how the NPC react to Shepard, etc. If you guys think current relationships aren't terrible, then things will turn out just fine, so maybe now you'll be able to relax a little, mkay?

let me try to explain how I feel about that at least in terms of VS.

the romances in ME1 are set up in such a way that unless you decisevly and firmly end them at soonest possibility (first conversation after first mission using couple of specific options)  or just don't talk to them?  they like you and their feelings just keep growing with every conversation.  they like you from the moment you save them on Eden Prime.  even blaiming them for the beaconin the infirmary doesn't stop them from liking you (found that out the hard way)  so, in interest of overall continuity - they fall in love with oposite sex Shepard, but aren't interested that way in same sex Shepard.  before you say anything, no it doesn't mean they are not interested in same sex relationships, ever, it just means they didn't feel atracted to male Shepard at that time. 

another variable is - when you do stop the relationship.  you  now have a character that either was atracted to you but got over it... or a character who never was atracted to you in a first place.  now maybe I'm making it to intricate but realisticaly speaking - the dynamic between these 2 cases - its a fair bit different, so.. in writing a possible new relationship, in order for it to be beleivable, the difference must be aknowledged, at least in the beginning.

I'm not a fan of the idea that VS could have fallen in love with Shepard after Horizon for a very simple reason.  they pretty much write you off.  they tell you to be careful, but even if you were i na relationship, you get a sort of confused, non commital apology letter, that shows you they are not completely over you, but are extrememly confused nontheless.  if you were NOT in a relationship - you get nothing.  I don't see love happening, untill after you meet again and sturt building trust again.

I dislike the idea that "they were in love from the start but hiding it" even more.  they had no problem expressing atraction to oposite sex Shepard, or more like - they had issues hiding aforementioned atraction.  so by saying that they were hiding their atraction to same sex Shepard, we are either implying that homophobia is strong in the future (an unpleasant proposition)  or their character is basicaly rewritten for the purpose of including new start for relationship in ME3, s/s or/f/m - both

the difference here, is not due to homosexuality, its due to difference in dynamic.  it would have been the same issue if they had been s/s only rmance options in the beginning, and were then expanded to be bi option.

its possible that they will expend enough resources to concider all the variables, including whether you renegaded/paragoned them or not.  in which case I will happily creat a few new Shepards to experience them all.  but I'm honestly, after the handling of Horizon?  too pessimistic to hope for that.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 20 mai 2011 - 07:32 .

[Siansonea]

ExtremeOne wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

The first justification they used was "retcon!" While I don't think this is necessarily the case, I would accept it as a valid concern. Then when Casey tweeted that they would be adding new LIs, it became "Well, Shepard's never been gay." It was telling. Basically, they're uncomfortable with it for some reason, even when there's nothing contradictory whatsoever in it's implementation, and they're couching this in "concern for story." Wereparrot especially, was grasping at straws.

     



It is a retcon but I can deal with it by not buying ME 3 . This is a case of fan service is more important than creating Shepard's story.  But how dare you talk down to us that have a legit issue with this content being added to the game .  Shepard was straight in both games unless you include Liara but she does not matter she is a stupid alien .  They lost a ME 3 player in me and I will never buy any of their games again . 

Weren't you not buying the game anywhere?  What with cerberus being evulz?

    







The story of ME 3 was something that I could have over looked and just went with it . But this issue is something that I do not like at all .  

K. Thanks for playing. We'll let you know how ME3 turns out. Buh-bye!

(because not buying a game because someone else could play a Gay Shepard is perfectly reasonable.)