6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Polliot]

SennenScale wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

I know about the cut s/s lines, but I don't think they removed that to appeas fox news if you get what I mean. I reckon they realised it didn't really fit in well and didn't have time to implement it better.

Guys—somebody get Casey Hudson on the phone. Somebody on the Internet thinks he knows why they initially cut s/s lines from ME1. Stop the presses, we have to go back to the drawing board with the s/s stuff now. Sorry for the inconvenience, folks. {smilie}

Hey, Siansonea..I may be confusing people, but I think Raptor's been pretty cool with us so far. Let's try to be cool back.

I've already said that Siansonea is unreasonable and he/she seems to attack everyone who doesn't completely agree with him/her. Talking about bigots...

[ExtremeOne]

Erani wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Ah, yes, boycotting video games...



We have dismissed that claim.

This. 

Threatening not to buy ME3 because of optional romance content will really make BioWare listen to concerns.

  


Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware . 

[PlumPaul93]

Eromenos wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I don't care if they're gay, as long as they get the job done.

As long as none of them jump down my throat about it like that it shouldn't really matter.  Whoever is made bisexual/homosexual shouldn't show it unless pursued by the same gender. That way everyone's view is right. Nobody would be wrong in saying they are straight even if they can be romanced by both genders, because it never happens in your game.

That's the way I'm seeing it, anyway.

Going by this line of thinking, whoever is made straight also shouldn't show it unless pursued by the opposite gender.

I'm pretty sure most don't. Isn't that the line of reasoning for making certain characters gay? Because they never showed signs of def being one way. Contradicting yourselves eh?

Isn't that the line of reasoning for making certain characters gay?

That theme you have going, of putting words into people's mouths? 'tis your one true marketable skill as far as I know.

Hmm. Hmm. There's a little something known as "ninjamances" that some of us here have heard of. For anyone who is dumb or is playing dumb, those occurences come about if we're simply nice to Ashley, Kaidan, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Thane. All of them were purported to be str8 when ME1 and ME2 were shipped off. All of them couldn't stop oozing onto opposite-sex Shepards.

But I know where you're coming from. To you, those heteronormative homophobic interactions were "regular people" and not anything to do with throwing themselves at us. Omg, they weren't overselling straightness at all. Right, right. Whatever you say.

there you go rambling again. The common theme I am getting here is people aren't satisfied that there are going to be gay romances, they want the gay characters to be in the players face. And any who say as long as they don't hit on me first it's all good. are seen as homophobes, excellent.

[Black Raptor]

Siansonea II wrote...
Who knows? Any number of things could have happened. Why is it relevant?

Could you name one?

I'm not against Kaiden or Ash being s/s, it would just seem strange to a great many people due to the fact that the cutscenes which changed in ME1  depending on your choice of gender implies that the VS of the opposite gender is attracted to Shepard. 

It's relevant because that is what this topic is all about. How Bioware should go about implementing s/s romances. Should they all be new LIs or should some old characters be included?

[Siansonea]

Polliot wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

I know about the cut s/s lines, but I don't think they removed that to appeas fox news if you get what I mean. I reckon they realised it didn't really fit in well and didn't have time to implement it better.

Guys—somebody get Casey Hudson on the phone. Somebody on the Internet thinks he knows why they initially cut s/s lines from ME1. Stop the presses, we have to go back to the drawing board with the s/s stuff now. Sorry for the inconvenience, folks. {smilie}

Hey, Siansonea..I may be confusing people, but I think Raptor's been pretty cool with us so far. Let's try to be cool back.

I've already said that Siansonea is unreasonable and he/she seems to attack everyone who doesn't completely agree with him/her. Talking about bigots...

It's SHE. *flashes boobies*

I'm a bigot now? Riiiiiiiight. Is it my fault I can't keep track of six (five?) people with Wrex avatars? Can we get some variety up in here? Maybe I'm an avatar bigot... 

[jeweledleah]

@ Nyoka

I've played through ME1 so many times at this point, experimenting with dialog and such, closing off romances at different points - with maleshep - its always either friends or just professional officer to officer relationship. with femshep - it turns into same, if you squash their atraction

I much preferred Garrusmance to Talimance, precisely because it evolved from friendship to romance, and because they didn't try to turn it into "I was pining for you for so long" for either Shepard or Garrus. more like - I trust you and hey, you told me this story, how about I just take a chance and flirt, and oh, you are considering it and then the feelings between you grow. With Tali, it was borderline pushing it into a "Harlequeen of the month" paperback plot (sorry Talimancers, but its just how I felt about her romantic subplot)

The "whoa, I never looked at it that way... I have to think about it" would be my preferred way for them to write same sex romance for VS (with f/m option, I would rather they acknowledge that "I felt something for you, but I got over it, but maybe this second chance.. it could be something)

I don't think relationships themselves once they evolve should be different (well it would be nice if you could share different interests, but that's asking waay to much from a game where romance is a small, optional subplot). only how they start.

they can be written very well and I'm sure I'm missing many a possibility of how it can be handled, there are just certain tropes that I personally dislike immensely, especially when it comes to certain characters and how they acted around Shepard previously (Jacob is an even better example of "I loved you all along" so not fitting in, as he doesn't see ANY Shepard romantically, until you start pushing and pushing hard. amusingly, it also makes him a great candidate for s/s subplot in ME3)

P.S. "no love" after horizon will definitely apply to either relationship - I think I did mention it in my post, or at least meant to. and if there's not reconciliation/dealing with issues, that addresses the issues of working for Cerberus, horizon encounter, etc for existing romances, I'm going to be very sad.

[Black Raptor]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware . 

Yes, that message being one less sexist homophobe won't be enjoying their game. 

I don't think they'll care much though. 

[Someone With Mass]

Don't listen to ExtremeOne. He's just butthurt because Cerberus is the enemy in ME3, for reasons that haven't been explained yet, even though anyone with half a brain could see that one coming a mile away.

[Abispa]

Erani wrote...

I think the hanar are monogendered like the Asari...so hanar bi LI in ME3! I mean if they have only 1 gender, and MShep romances one, then it wouldn't be considered to be teh gay right?

Blasto for gay LI! You can cater to gays, alien humping freaks and religious conservatives! It's a TOTAL WIN!

[Black Raptor]

Abispa wrote...

Erani wrote...

I think the hanar are monogendered like the Asari...so hanar bi LI in ME3! I mean if they have only 1 gender, and MShep romances one, then it wouldn't be considered to be teh gay right?

Blasto for gay LI! You can cater to gays, alien humping freaks and religious conservatives! It's a TOTAL WIN!

Do religious conservatives like tentacles too? 

[Abispa]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Don't listen to ExtremeOne. He's just butthurt because Cerberus is the enemy in ME3, for reasons that haven't been explained yet, even though anyone with half a brain could see that one coming a mile away.

Forget about the love "recon" in ME3, I didn't like the "recon" of Cerberus in ME2, and now it appears there may be another "recon" of Cerberus in ME3. Granted, little is known about ME3 at this point, and marketing has been just a LITTLE misleading in the past...

[Cootie]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware . 

No, it will not.
It merely says a lot about you, as a person.

When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.

[Abispa]

Black Raptor wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Erani wrote...

I think the hanar are monogendered like the Asari...so hanar bi LI in ME3! I mean if they have only 1 gender, and MShep romances one, then it wouldn't be considered to be teh gay right?

Blasto for gay LI! You can cater to gays, alien humping freaks and religious conservatives! It's a TOTAL WIN!

Do religious conservatives like tentacles too? 

I just checked Pat Robertson's Twiter account. Yep.

[DJSurface]

ExtremeOne wrote...
Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware .

Fine.  Then I promise that if you do not buy a copy of Mass Effect 3 based solely on inclusion of m/m content, I will (eventually) buy two copies of Mass Effect 3 for myself to send a small message to Bioware.  Probably in the form of 360 + PC.

Done and Done.

Modifié par DJSurface, 20 mai 2011 - 08:43 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Abispa wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Don't listen to ExtremeOne. He's just butthurt because Cerberus is the enemy in ME3, for reasons that haven't been explained yet, even though anyone with half a brain could see that one coming a mile away.

Forget about the love "recon" in ME3, I didn't like the "recon" of Cerberus in ME2, and now it appears there may be another "recon" of Cerberus in ME3. Granted, little is known about ME3 at this point, and marketing has been just a LITTLE misleading in the past...

I never really liked Cerberus,  they were quite difficult to trust.  I will miss TIM's soothing voice though.

[SennenScale]

Polliot wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Hey, Siansonea..I may be confusing people, but I think Raptor's been pretty cool with us so far. Let's try to be cool back.

I've already said that Siansonea is unreasonable and he/she seems to attack everyone who doesn't completely agree with him/her. Talking about bigots...

If you think Sian is being unreasonable, calling her a bigot isn't the answer.

Black Raptor wrote...

Abispa wrote...
Blasto for gay LI! You can cater to gays, alien humping freaks and religious conservatives! It's a TOTAL WIN!

Do religious conservatives like tentacles too? 

I know a few


On topic, I also support Hanar or Blasto for LI. Gun in every tentacle would be so useful for threatening people (remember Aria's thugs who had more guns on you than you had guns? Not a problem with Hanar squaddie!) and er...ahem*cough*

Modifié par SennenScale, 20 mai 2011 - 08:44 .

[Siansonea]

I can't wait to put one between the Illusive Man's eyes. That will be a high point of ME3 as far as I'm concerned.

[Eromenos]

Jayman1337 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I don't care if they're gay, as long as they get the job done.

As long as none of them jump down my throat about it like that it shouldn't really matter.  Whoever is made bisexual/homosexual shouldn't show it unless pursued by the same gender. That way everyone's view is right. Nobody would be wrong in saying they are straight even if they can be romanced by both genders, because it never happens in your game.

That's the way I'm seeing it, anyway.

Going by this line of thinking, whoever is made straight also shouldn't show it unless pursued by the opposite gender.

The point I was trying to make was that they really shouldn't show anything about their orientation unless romanced. It shouldn't matter otherwise, and everyone will be happy.

If you were to apply this onto straight interactions we have with the LIs too, then you and I can agree. But I'm going to guess that isn't so.

Hudson said something about the ME3 LIs being "reactive" to how we treat them.  I chalk this up as the ME crew's version of the symbols in DA2's dialogue wheel. Considering BioWare's history, I find it unlikely that the queer gamer's concerns were cause for the color-wheel development. It is much more likely these changes were structured to appease homophobic gamers.

In other words, I'm certain ME3's LIs will not be allowed to demonstrate queerness on their own. But I'll bet they will continue the pattern of hetero ninjamances they have portrayed so far.

Modifié par Eromenos, 20 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[DJSurface]

Siansonea II wrote...

I can't wait to put one between the Illusive Man's eyes. That will be a high point of ME3 as far as I'm concerned.

LOL... just though of some really naughty and trashy scenerios there... but I'll keep that under wraps for the good of all.

[Erani]

ExtremeOne wrote...
Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware . 

I won't engage in off-topic with you.

However, I'd like to remind you that so far we have:

1) Everyone here wants to avoid ninjamances in ME3

2) Mostly everyone is cool with new LIs being the s/s options, this includes everyone who wants s/s content+those who remain indifferent about the content+those who don't want "retcon" but are ok with new LIs being bi/gay.

3) Most of us who would like old characters such as Kaidan or Garrus to be a bi option have expressed that a good compromise would be "only new LIs s/s"

4) A few people think s/s content is usless and adds nothing to their experience, but still are ok with new LIs being bi.

It seems as though there is plenty of agreement among us, even if we keep arguing over semantics just for the sake of doing so. 
So if your argument against m/m LI is that you have deep issues against relationships between men but that female-female is ok, guess what? That qualifies as a biased opinion, and you can't expect many of us to agree to your double standard.

[SennenScale]

DJSurface wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
Oh I am not threatening to not to buy ME 3 . I mean it .  yeah sure one less sale won't do anything but it sends a small message to Bioware .

Fine.  Then I promise that if you do not buy a copy of Mass Effect 3 based solely on inclusion of m/m content, I will (eventually) buy two copies of Mass Effect 3 for myself to send a small message to Bioware.  Probably in the form of 360 + PC.

Done and Done.

I shall do the same. I will also do one better: convert more people to Mass Effect. I actually just got a friend into Mass Effect about a month ago; I bet I can repeat that feat and Bioware will see how it pays off to keep us happy.

[Eromenos]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I don't care if they're gay, as long as they get the job done.

As long as none of them jump down my throat about it like that it shouldn't really matter.  Whoever is made bisexual/homosexual shouldn't show it unless pursued by the same gender. That way everyone's view is right. Nobody would be wrong in saying they are straight even if they can be romanced by both genders, because it never happens in your game.

That's the way I'm seeing it, anyway.

Going by this line of thinking, whoever is made straight also shouldn't show it unless pursued by the opposite gender.

I'm pretty sure most don't. Isn't that the line of reasoning for making certain characters gay? Because they never showed signs of def being one way. Contradicting yourselves eh?

Isn't that the line of reasoning for making certain characters gay?

That theme you have going, of putting words into people's mouths? 'tis your one true marketable skill as far as I know.

Hmm. Hmm. There's a little something known as "ninjamances" that some of us here have heard of. For anyone who is dumb or is playing dumb, those occurences come about if we're simply nice to Ashley, Kaidan, Jack, Miranda, Jacob, and Thane. All of them were purported to be str8 when ME1 and ME2 were shipped off. All of them couldn't stop oozing onto opposite-sex Shepards.

But I know where you're coming from. To you, those heteronormative homophobic interactions were "regular people" and not anything to do with throwing themselves at us. Omg, they weren't overselling straightness at all. Right, right. Whatever you say.

there you go rambling again. The common theme I am getting here is people aren't satisfied that there are going to be gay romances, they want the gay characters to be in the players face. And any who say as long as they don't hit on me first it's all good. are seen as homophobes, excellent.

there you go rambling again.

"There goes that fool who makes no sense." "Let's all just our heads and sigh."

In trying to sidestep me, I suspect you're not actually as dense as you seem. No matter.

There have been a bunch of characters you and BioWare both pretended to be straight. These NPCs were always in-your-face about being straight. In hindsight, you should be blaming them for opening the door. What's good for them is good for us. If there's going to be heterosexuality that is "blatant" and "flaunted" at everyone, so too must there be queerness that is "blatant" and "flaunted" at everyone.

You want us back in the closet? Then keep your breeder rituals off our screens.

You want NPCs' straightness at the forefront? Pity that, they have to share the foreground with queer NPCs.

Modifié par Eromenos, 20 mai 2011 - 08:56 .

[J. Finley]

Eromenos wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I don't care if they're gay, as long as they get the job done.

As long as none of them jump down my throat about it like that it shouldn't really matter.  Whoever is made bisexual/homosexual shouldn't show it unless pursued by the same gender. That way everyone's view is right. Nobody would be wrong in saying they are straight even if they can be romanced by both genders, because it never happens in your game.

That's the way I'm seeing it, anyway.

Going by this line of thinking, whoever is made straight also shouldn't show it unless pursued by the opposite gender.

The point I was trying to make was that they really shouldn't show anything about their orientation unless romanced. It shouldn't matter otherwise, and everyone will be happy.

If you were to apply this onto straight interactions we have with the LIs too, then you and I can agree. But I'm going to guess that isn't so.

Hudson said something about the ME3 LIs being "reactive" to how we treat them.  I chalk this up as the ME crew's version of the symbols in DA2's dialogue wheel. Considering BioWare's history, I find it unlikely that the queer gamer's concerns were cause for the color-wheel development. It is much more likely these changes were structured to appease homophobic gamers.

In other words, I'm certain ME3's LIs will not be allowed to demonstrate queerness on their own. But I'll bet they will continue the pattern of hetero ninjamances they have portrayed so far.

I agree. I don't think they did such a good job considering the romances in ME2 in general, the only way to get more content and dialogue with a character was to romance them. Hopefully they improve on that in ME3 and let us build friendships with characters we don't want to romance. Hell, maybe even rivalries with characters we hate.