6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...
Please don't tell me it's gonna be another "they're gay if you're a dude. they're straight if you're a chick" system like in DA2. I never could muster up any emotion about any of the potential LI in that game... in large part because having such a key characteristic as their sexuality so nebulously defined detracted from their character.

You can't form an emotional attachment to someone unless you know exactly who they want to sleep with and are sure that they will never stray from that?

[Ryzaki]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...
Please don't tell me it's gonna be another "they're gay if you're a dude. they're straight if you're a chick" system like in DA2. I never could muster up any emotion about any of the potential LI in that game... in large part because having such a key characteristic as their sexuality so nebulously defined detracted from their character.

 

That's...an odd reason not to be able to care about someone.  Ah well your loss was my gain. I connected with al of them because of that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 03:32 .

[Jebel Krong]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
i have a personal problem with bad writing. yes.

its simply bad writing to change characters in such a fundemental way so late in a series.

for one of the established characters to suddenly reveal that they're bi when there wasnt a single hint or reference earlier is pretty bad. hell its generally regarded as bad writing to suddenly add in new facts that completely change the dynamic of situations. whether that be sexual preference, or a deus ex machina.

the simple fact of the matter is that for an established character to suddenly and unexpectedly reveal that they are bi so you can have a happy s/s relationship with them IS a deus ex machina. its a bad writing tool. theres no character development, theres no character growth, theres no story arch. its BAD WRITING.

the reason i was saying the VS is the best choice for a s/s relationship is because they have the most reasonable reason to have no revealed that fact yet, and they were gone for all of ME2.

You have a problem with bad writing.  Okay.  You have a problem with bad writing you've not even seen, heard, or experienced yet.  Not okay.

The idea that every bi character has to specifically tell you or imply that they're bisexual in order for them to be written well is absurd.

A character revealing that they're bisexual "late in the game" does not automatically mean it's not done without character development.  The example I like to bring up is Willow and Tara from Buffy.  I guess Willow's falling for Tara has to be bad writing, plot device, and deus machina because she only ever gave us examples of her liking men prior to that, right?

counter: garrus recounting his female conquest in a deeply personal moment on one hand, not mentioning any m/m romances in his entire history on the other, very telling. (your previous points #3 and #4 therefore contradict each other to a degree).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 16 mai 2011 - 03:33 .

[bleetman]

Hooray! About time, etc.

[PMC65]

Thekill_3 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?

That "character hostage taking" happens with all the characters. I think sometimes people forget that we are all playing different Shepards which impacts everything around us.

The bigger thing I see on this board is that there are valid concerns that should be heard ... this way Bioware understands what they need to focus on when they implement this. I don't want those who are playing a "straight" ME world to have it feel like they walked ina gay bar and I don't want the Gay/Bi Shepards to not have any LI (Liara is an alien ... some women would like a human female, they are not all Captain Kirkettes). My Shepard might love Liara but another human female would be great.  

What I hate seeing is how on both sides there are "Zealots" who aren't really listening to each other. Oh, well. There have been some really thoughtful posts though and I think those can help Bioware in their execution stage.

[CroGamer002]

Ryzaki wrote...


I disliked Zevran strongly and for some reason he had people believing the "all bisexuals are overt and wear their sexuality on their sleeve." sterotype. That was irksome.

He's stereotype?

[Ashira Shepard]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Shepard isn't gay.

Your Shepard isn't. Plenty of others are though.

Thekill_3 wrote...
Why no, Ashira. He's someone who enjoyes Johnny Walker and listens to Jazz. My Shepard is unique, and no one
says differently.

Exactly! Let us frolic in our originality!

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 16 mai 2011 - 03:35 .

[CARL_DF90]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Shepard isn't gay.

We all know this. Still, like I pointed out with the Garrus and Tali romance in ME2 enough people asked/demanded it so Bioware gave the people what they wanted. Now, you had a crap-ton of people complain that there were no same-sex relationship options, and then Bioware again "listens" to the people and gives them what they want, no matter how ridiculous, forced, or badly written it may turn out to be be. Still, considering the game isn't even out yet and we have no clue how it's going to be handled perhaps we should take the "wait and see" approach to the whole thing. People were "vocal" about how things like this were handled in DA2 so it should be fair to say that Bioware will learn from it. Despite some knee-jerk reactions in the community I vote that we just wait and see.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 16 mai 2011 - 03:37 .

[Ryzaki]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


I disliked Zevran strongly and for some reason he had people believing the "all bisexuals are overt and wear their sexuality on their sleeve." sterotype. That was irksome.

He's stereotype?

 

He's a deconstruction once you get past the surface but until you do he pretty much is a depraved bisexual with a little of sleeping with everything that moves.  

Common sterotype is that all bisexuals are lying, cheaters, ****s and have few standards. Not to mention are morally bankrupt. 

Sadly a lot of people don't bother to dig beneath the surface and then assume because Zev is like that all bisexuals are like that. Then some assume all other bi LIs will be like that. *sighs*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 03:42 .

[Jebel Krong]

Nyoka wrote...

A bi man tells another man that he was with a woman once.

That is a contradiction...how?

man tells man he was with a woman does not make him bi unless he says so. you can't infer something from nothing just as i can't infer the same from the other side, except that i have evidence of something, you don't: your poisition has to be qualified, which, on the evidence we have, it is not.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Jebel Krong wrote...
counter: garrus recounting his female conquest in a deeply personal moment on one hand, not mentioning any m/m romances in his entire history on the other, very telling. (your previous points #3 and #4 therefore contradict each other to a degree).

Nothing is contradicted.  Bisexuals have relationships with the opposite gender.  Garrus recounted the tale of one of his relationships with the opposite gender.

Therefore he fits half the requirements of being bisexual, and omission of his relationships with men is not evidence.

[CARL_DF90]

PMC65 wrote...

Thekill_3 wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I support continuity. The male Shepherd was straight for the last two games, why abruptly change that? And to make it worse there isn't going to be any new LI in ME3. So that means one of the current male characters in the story will miraculously turn ******. To me this is facepalm worthy.

Why are peole saying that everyones Sheps are similiar to theirs?

That "character hostage taking" happens with all the characters. I think sometimes people forget that we are all playing different Shepards which impacts everything around us.

The bigger thing I see on this board is that there are valid concerns that should be heard ... this way Bioware understands what they need to focus on when they implement this. I don't want those who are playing a "straight" ME world to have it feel like they walked ina gay bar and I don't want the Gay/Bi Shepards to not have any LI (Liara is an alien ... some women would like a human female, they are not all Captain Kirkettes). My Shepard might love Liara but another human female would be great.  

What I hate seeing is how on both sides there are "Zealots" who aren't really listening to each other. Oh, well. There have been some really thoughtful posts though and I think those can help Bioware in their execution stage.

^This^  Finally. Someone who thinks a little more deeply than the average ape.

[Siansonea]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

Shepard isn't gay.

Really? Prove it. Seems to me Shepard doesn't have to pursue romance at all. Nowhere in the game is Shepard forced to sleep with an opposite-sex person or express genuine interest in an opposite-sex person. And also nowhere in the game is Shepard forced to reject the advances of a same-sex person. Or did I miss something on my bazillion playthroughs?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 mai 2011 - 03:41 .

[Darth Death]

DaeJi wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Where did I say that? 

When you said that the male Shepard was straight. It was entirely possible to be play him as gay; he just didn't have anyone to be with if that was the case.

Again, if it were so then the male shep would've had options to romance other male characters. There would be love scene, romance dialogue, etc, but there isn't any in the cases of both ME and ME2. 

Modifié par Darth Death, 16 mai 2011 - 03:42 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Jebel Krong wrote...
man tells man he was with a woman does not make him bi unless he says so. you can't infer something from nothing just as i can't infer the same from the other side, except that i have evidence of something, you don't: your poisition has to be qualified, which, on the evidence we have, it is not.

Again, omission is not evidence.  It is quite the opposite, actually: a lack of evidence.

Meaning that it is very possible he is bisexual.  You're the one making the definitive statement that he is solely straight when you have absolutely zero evidence that he doesn't like men.  Prove that he doesn't like men and I will concede that making him bisexual is a retcon.

[Siansonea]

Darth Death wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Where did I say that? 

When you said that the male Shepard was straight. It was entirely possible to be play him as gay; he just didn't have anyone to be with if that was the case.

Again, if it were so then the male shep would've had options to romance other male characters. There would be love scene, romance dialogue, etc, but it isn't any in the cases of both ME and ME2. 

Really, so just because someone is gay, the universe automatically provides someone for them to date? That's pretty nifty. 

[DaeJi]

Darth Death wrote...

Again, if it were so then the male shep would've had options to romance other male characters. There would be love scene, romance dialogue, etc, but it isn't any in the cases of both ME and ME2. 

But it is the case in Mass Effect so "YAY" for gay Shepard.

[Ashira Shepard]

Darth Death wrote...
Again, if it were so then the male shep would've had options to romance other male characters. There would be love scene, romance dialogue, etc, but there isn't any in the cases of both ME and ME2. 

Ah, there is cut dialogue from both games for male romance. It just got cut out at the last moment. So they were certainly thinking about it but all I can think is executive meddling jumped in.

What I'm trying to understand is why this is such an issue for you. I don't make a issue out of other people having their FemShep's romance Kaiden/Thane/Garrus/Jacob etc, I even think FemShep/Garrus is quite sweet - specifically because my Shepard is only interested in women.

Like your Shepard is only interested in the opposite gender.

As I said, you're not specifically going to follow a male romance with your Shepard, so why are you so worried? Because someone elses Shepard will romance a dude? Why does that bother you? It's their game with their Shepard. They aren't hijacking your game and your Shepard and forcing him to romance a guy.

I'm so confused by these people

[Fault Girl]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...


Nothing is contradicted.  Bisexuals have relationships with the opposite gender.  Garrus recounted the tale of one of his relationships with the opposite gender.

Therefore he fits half the requirements of being bisexual, and omission of his relationships with men is not evidence.

So if people don't clarify that they are straight from the get go then they can be assumed to be bisexual until told?

Sorry if I have misunderstood

But then to contradict myself why would someone need to say "oh I'm bisexual btw" or need to state that had past relationships with the same sex unless it needs to be addressed. So then I kinda agree...

Ah I confuse myself as usual

[Ashira Shepard]

Siansonea II wrote...
Really, so just because someone is gay, the universe automatically provides someone for them to date? That's pretty nifty. 

WHAT? Where's my girlfriend then? Or did I miss out? Did the universe run out of adorable, pretty ladies? 

[Ryzaki]

I made a poll!  

http://social.biowar...4/polls/20086/ 

[cocla]

It will be fine, as long as they dont go the DA2 route and make the entire squad a bi smorgasbord I support including SS romance.

I think they will go the route of one F/F, one M/M, and the Lira ?/? (because Bioware has always maintained Lira is neither F nor M)

I think the F/F will be Jack, and the M/M will be Garrus.