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[paptschik]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Ken was supposed to be a light romance! ...for straight female Shepards! *headdesk*

...The hell?
This is just weird. Why make Ken and Gabby act like they're only one short cutscene away from becoming the cutest canon pairing in the game (and having other characters like Kasumi reference this fact) and then have them romancable?
I'd hope for Shepard to be able to flirt with either (straight, bi, doesn't matter) but eventually being dumped because they realize, they are only meant for each other!
Cause I love Ken/Gabby <3

[ElitePinecone]

I'm guessing a lot of stuff is planned in development and then needs to be drastically scaled back when the game gets closer to release.

If I remember correctly Kelly was just about the only remnant of a whole lot of Normandy characters that Shepard was meant to be able to interact with.

[lolwut666]

Urgh...

This fandom is can be horrible at times.

Everything eventually comes down to romance and making more characters romanceable.

Are you people really that freaking lonely and pathetic?

The characters can't do ANYTHING without some fan somewhere seeing some kind of sexual undertone there.

Garrus: 'Sup, Shepard.

Male Shepard: 'Sup.

Fandom: OMFG THEY'RE SO TOTALLY GAY FOR EACH OTHER!!1one!1

FemShep: Tali, can you hand me that paperclip over there?

Tali: Sure.

Fandom: OMFG THEIR FINGERS TOTALLY GRAZED EACH OTHER!! FEMSHEP X TALI NAO!!one1!

Like paptschik said, Ken and Gabby were made for each other, and they shouldn't be with anyone else EVEN if their relationship remains platonic.

The same thing goes for Joker and EDI. Even if Joker is a human and EDI is an AI, they have such an amazing dynamic that I really can't fathom why would you want to ruin it by making Joker romanceable.

Go take a cold shower, play a dating sim, or both, but please stop with the mindless shipping bull****.

[mopotter]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Just caught up with some of this...

I actually really enjoyed the Chakwas brandy conversation. Maybe it was just nostalgia for ME, or the way she referenced so many past characters (Jenkins!), but it was quite moving and a significant moment for her character.

I do agree that she went from relatively chirpy to despondent and, well, depressed, but people change over two years. I'd love similar friendship conversations or platonic relationships with other characters, especially ones we don't romance.

Two friendship lines with Garrus or Jacob when you don't romance them felt very lean. I barely got to know the characters beyond their loyalty mission. I'm hoping a smaller squad will allow more depth in the content of all relationship paths, LI or otherwise.

I also enjoyed the getting drunk with a frend moment.  Having the room tilt brought back a memories from my youth and why I don't drink.

I didn't mind the change in her mood.  Most people have mements they get sad and drinking often brings it out.  I would have liked another chat with her though, maybe over coffee  

Also hope they increase the availablel friend factor on everyone as well as more conversations with your LI about stuff in general and maybe one where you can have the talk about the future with your LI  and having some options like "we will get through this and still be together when we are old and gray", or telling them something like "lets just enjoy the  moment", or "we have no future" which actually I would only want to use if I was dumping them.  But something that  pulls me into the character because they have life situations.  In a video game fantasy dream way.

[mopotter]

paptschik wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Ken was supposed to be a light romance! ...for straight female Shepards! *headdesk*

...The hell?
This is just weird. Why make Ken and Gabby act like they're only one short cutscene away from becoming the cutest canon pairing in the game (and having other characters like Kasumi reference this fact) and then have them romancable?
I'd hope for Shepard to be able to flirt with either (straight, bi, doesn't matter) but eventually being dumped because they realize, they are only meant for each other!
Cause I love Ken/Gabby <3

I also love Kin/Gabby and would be thrilled if in ME3 we found out they got married or engaged.  One of the best things in DA:2 was this type of event.   Even when countries are involved in war or disasters, people still fall in love and get married.  They also find things to laugh at so yes, I would like the Gabby/Ken relationship to continue in ME3.  I don't really care if you can flirt with them or not, but if you can, then yes I'd like them to say ahhh thanks Sheaprd, but I'm allready in a relationship.  

[mopotter]

Poor Kelly. I just want her to feed my fish so I flirt and invite her to dinner then never talk to her again. I wish they had just made feeding the fish part of her administrative assistant job.

[ElitePinecone]

mopotter wrote...
 I wish they had just made feeding the fish part of her administrative assistant job.

THIS. I mean, it's not as though she spends every minute of the day checking to see if I have new emails 

[Cathey]

I would like to know what she's doing messing around in my private messages to beign with XD I'd much rather she left that to me and focused on feeding the fish / letting me know when someone wants me to go talk to them. I mean...I get ALL my messages to that terminal....some things you just dont want people seeing

I'd like to see more of her in ME3 though. If not as a full LI then definitely as a fling.

[ElitePinecone]

Cathey wrote...

I would like to know what she's doing messing around in my private messages to beign with XD I'd much rather she left that to me and focused on feeding the fish / letting me know when someone wants me to go talk to them. I mean...I get ALL my messages to that terminal....some things you just dont want people seeing

I'd like to see more of her in ME3 though. If not as a full LI then definitely as a fling.

This is a non-spoiler forum, so I'm limited in what I can say...

But Kelly is the first person that does <something> if you delay going through <somewhere> at the end of ME2. I don't know how many players realised this connection, but it's fairly likely that she won't be appearing in many people's ME3 games. Unfortunately. 

This does tie into a larger point, though - Bioware really are constrained in ME3 as to who can make a cameo appearance (or even act as a squadmate) due especially to the events of ME2; it lends credence to the idea that the squad may include some more new people and not returning ones. 

[mopotter]

Cathey wrote...

I would like to know what she's doing messing around in my private messages to beign with XD I'd much rather she left that to me and focused on feeding the fish / letting me know when someone wants me to go talk to them. I mean...I get ALL my messages to that terminal....some things you just dont want people seeing

I'd like to see more of her in ME3 though. If not as a full LI then definitely as a fling.

Never actually thought of that.  Your right.  I would never have access to my bosses e-mails.  Now his phone has a button that lights up when he has a message.  Maybe her terminal just has something that says there are messages waiting.  I don't want her to read my e-mails.  

I would also like to see her in ME3.  I liked Kelly and wished I could have invited her up for dinner without the flirting.  Actually would like to invite everyone up to chat or have a place to play cards.  I know they have a place where they play cards,  I won money from Ken.  

[Cathey]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Cathey wrote...

I would like to know what she's doing messing around in my private messages to beign with XD I'd much rather she left that to me and focused on feeding the fish / letting me know when someone wants me to go talk to them. I mean...I get ALL my messages to that terminal....some things you just dont want people seeing

I'd like to see more of her in ME3 though. If not as a full LI then definitely as a fling.

This is a non-spoiler forum, so I'm limited in what I can say...

But Kelly is the first person that does <something> if you delay going through <somewhere> at the end of ME2. I don't know how many players realised this connection, but it's fairly likely that she won't be appearing in many people's ME3 games. Unfortunately. 

This does tie into a larger point, though - Bioware really are constrained in ME3 as to who can make a cameo appearance (or even act as a squadmate) due especially to the events of ME2; it lends credence to the idea that the squad may include some more new people and not returning ones. 

I didn't know that - i've never delayed it. I've always done that 'the best way' (if you take the best way as doing everything so that you keep everyone)

[Abispa]

RaenImrahl wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

and while I'm not a fan of flings personally, I would love it if we had more options like that, or like those drinks with Dr. Chakwas.. just friends shooting the breeze

Let's hope someone takes Jacob's suggestion to heart and puts a bar on the ship.

This should be an intense debate. Which returning squad member would be the best bar tender and why?

[Abispa]

lolwut666 wrote...

Urgh...

This fandom is can be horrible at times.

Everything eventually comes down to romance and making more characters romanceable.

Are you people really that freaking lonely and pathetic?

The characters can't do ANYTHING without some fan somewhere seeing some kind of sexual undertone there.

Garrus: 'Sup, Shepard.

Male Shepard: 'Sup.

Fandom: OMFG THEY'RE SO TOTALLY GAY FOR EACH OTHER!!1one!1

FemShep: Tali, can you hand me that paperclip over there?

Tali: Sure.

Fandom: OMFG THEIR FINGERS TOTALLY GRAZED EACH OTHER!! FEMSHEP X TALI NAO!!one1!

Like paptschik said, Ken and Gabby were made for each other, and they shouldn't be with anyone else EVEN if their relationship remains platonic.

The same thing goes for Joker and EDI. Even if Joker is a human and EDI is an AI, they have such an amazing dynamic that I really can't fathom why would you want to ruin it by making Joker romanceable.

Go take a cold shower, play a dating sim, or both, but please stop with the mindless shipping bull****.

Dude, you're in a FORUM dedicated to discussing ROMANCES, for crying out loud. If this were a forum discussing the virtues of converting all weapons to heat clips, THEN your complaints would make sense.

[ElitePinecone]

Cathey wrote...
I didn't know that - i've never delayed it. I've always done that 'the best way' (if you take the best way as doing everything so that you keep everyone)

I couldn't stand to lose anybody - even a relatively minor character like Kelly. 

Patrick Weekes (a writer on ME3) has said that the game - and one scene in particular - will "break some hearts". I hope not. :crying:

[lolwut666]

Abispa wrote...

Dude, you're in a FORUM dedicated to discussing ROMANCES, for crying out loud. If this were a forum discussing the virtues of converting all weapons to heat clips, THEN your complaints would make sense.

wat

First of all, BSN is NOT for discussing romances exclusively. Get your head out of the gutter.

And my complains make perfect sense here, thank you very much.

[Abispa]

ElitePinecone wrote...

mopotter wrote...
 I wish they had just made feeding the fish part of her administrative assistant job.

THIS. I mean, it's not as though she spends every minute of the day checking to see if I have new emails 

If Kelly is still around (doubtful on a now-Alliance-run-ship) SHE is the character that demands DA2 style cut scenes with the entire crew. You walk in to visit a friend's homebase and she's finishing up her "obersvations" and we catch some cute dialoge between the crew. I'd also like to be able to discover that the members you aren't romancing have started to pair off, maybe walking in on Jack and Grunt or something.

[Abispa]

lolwut666 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Dude, you're in a FORUM dedicated to discussing ROMANCES, for crying out loud. If this were a forum discussing the virtues of converting all weapons to heat clips, THEN your complaints would make sense.

wat

First of all, BSN is NOT for discussing romances exclusively. Get your head out of the gutter.

And my complains make perfect sense here, thank you very much.

Read this type very slowly:

-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex- *Update added*

THAT is the title of this forum.

EDIT: You can leave your bridge if you want to, but you'll find no more food here.

Modifié par Abispa, 21 mai 2011 - 02:23 .

[lolwut666]

@Abispa

It's a thread/topic, not a forum.

And I'm refering to the abundant amount of threads related to romance that pop up all the time. This one is just the most active for the time being.

EDIT: Get over yourself.

Modifié par lolwut666, 21 mai 2011 - 02:26 .

[Eromenos]

DJSurface wrote...

Madi wrote...
Whether or not they considered it for ME1 and ME2 is moot because ultimately they did not include it so it couldn't have been their policy at that time.

EDIT: that was mean of me, sorry.

Anyway, I'll try to lay it out one more time then I'm off to the gym.

Bioware desides at some point to include s/s options to the romance subplots of the games.
As each game comes along, they dicede to include it or not.
KOTOR, no.
Jade Empire, yes.
Mass Effect, no.
DA:O, yes.
ME2, no.
DA2, yes.
ME3, yes.
SWOR, can you even romance NPCs in that ?

Obviously I know no more than you do as we are not Bioware staff, but from my point of view, and working in software development being exposed to cut features all the time, I can easily seeing this as a case by case call.

We'll be able to romance some of our companions in SWTOR. But consider BioWare and Lucas' combined homophobic track records. The TOR clips that I've seen so far yielded dialogue and graphics that skate too close to the kid-friendly prequels and cartoons these days. Less like KOTOR and much more like the wretched days of Anakin and that mouthpiece padawan he has. Lucas is an even bigger holdout against S/S, which is an attitude that plays well with MMO culture's biases. I doubt they're going to risk rocking the boat.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 mai 2011 - 02:39 .

[Eromenos]

paptschik wrote...

rynluna wrote...

paptschik wrote...

No. Which is why I don't, thank you very much.
Doesn't change the fact that I view Tali as straight by now and would personally prefer it if that were to remain so.
Is it necessary to get worked up over me liking a straight Tali?
This
entire thing can go back and forth. I have been civil and I accept what
others want and hope for. Is it really that much to ask for that people
don't mock those of us that just would like certain characters to be
straight?

Well you are obviously getting worked
up over myself and a few others getting a lol out of this supposed
straight orientation Tali has.  Last time I checked, we are on a forum
and can express our opinions as long as they stay civil.  I'm not name
calling, only presenting evidence that is found in the game that shows
she gets flustered with FemShep just like DudeShep.

I'm getting worked up over the fact that people get mocked if they dare to thik that Tali is straight.
My
point is..the opinion that Tali is straight is as good and okay to have
as wanting her bi or already viewing her as bi and I don't like feeling
like I have to apologize for seeing her as straight.

Think of it this way. A few straight LIs, a few bisexual LIs in one game. All the bisexual options are primarily tuned to appeal with straight culture's ideas about queer people. That is a highly unfair situation to queer gamers and to queer-friendly straight gamers. It happened in DAO and to a smaller extent in JE. Who would be content with tokenism? We see arguments all the time about "realism" that compels queerness to stay shoved into a minority corner, but is that a worthy argument? That is where anger comes from, speaking for myself at least.

Having all the LIs be bisexual precludes cop-outs. The devs think first about straight folks' quality of immersion even with queer characters. So if the queer characters and straight characters become one in the same, it would eliminate many of the cop-outs.

It does no good to try distancing/segregating straight from queer in these games. BioWare has proven itself unreliable in products that have "some straight characters with some bi characters." Those come out to be 99% straight NPCs and 1% bisexual NPCs exploited for straight culture, which insults the intelligence levels of queer/queer-friendly gamers. Until they can prove themselves capable of depicting diverse sexualities without defaulting to tokenism, I feel like the DA2 example is the minimal bar that's been set.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 mai 2011 - 03:07 .

[Clonedzero]

people are STILL arguing?

everyone should shut up till we find out more info cus at this point everyones just repeating arguments that happened 50 pages back lol.

[M-Sinistrari]

lolwut666 wrote...

And I'm refering to the abundant amount of threads related to romance that pop up all the time. This one is just the most active for the time being.

I knew the sentiment you were expressing, since I've grumbled about it here and there in many fandoms.  So it's not something unique to the Bioware forums.  Just look at the fandoms for the Lord of the Rings movies for a good start.  People are seriously convinced Frodo and Sam were a couple, Merry and Pippin, Aragorn and Boromir, Legolas with anything capable of movement...  And don't get me started with the assorted pairings that get brought up in the Harry Potter franchise...  It's as if it's more important to the varying franchises with who's banging who instead of the other elements such as plot.

However here's where ME's different.  The characters are tabula rasas that encourage us to fill in the gaps, so to see a romance or pairing where someone else doesn't and vice versa is normal and actually expected.  Makes none of us wrong in our interpretations since each is our own unique canon.  Just because I truely can't despite how many times I honestly tried can't see Tali or Garrus as a LI doesn't mean that thier respective sizeable fanbases are wrong, just means we're seeing things differently according to what gaps we're able to mentally fill.

With the other fandoms, they're based on media where the emotions, the interactions are clearly stated out or are from an era different to ours so with the latter especially, it's a strange tangent for anyone of the more recent generations to try to see something like the Frodo/Sam closeness and jump through what I feel are hoops to pair them up.  According to the media around them, closeness has to equal knockin' boots.

But then with how successful the Twilight franchise crap ended up, I think some perspectives are really thrown off track.

Hopefully this all made some sense, I'm still waking up and not at peak 100% caffination.

[paptschik]

Eromenos wrote...

Think of it this way. A few straight LIs, a few bisexual LIs in one game. All the bisexual options are primarily tuned to appeal with straight culture's ideas about queer people. That is a highly unfair situation to queer gamers and to queer-friendly straight gamers. It happened in DAO and to a smaller extent in JE. Who would be content with tokenism? We see arguments all the time about "realism" that compels queerness to stay shoved into a minority corner, but is that a worthy argument? That is where anger comes from, speaking for myself at least.

Having all the LIs be bisexual precludes cop-outs. The devs think first about straight folks' quality of immersion even with queer characters. So if the queer characters and straight characters become one in the same, it would eliminate many of the cop-outs.

It does no good to try distancing/segregating straight from queer in these games. BioWare has proven itself unreliable in products that have "some straight characters with some bi characters." Those come out to be 99% straight NPCs and 1% bisexual NPCs exploited for straight culture, which insults the intelligence levels of queer/queer-friendly gamers. Until they can prove themselves capable of depicting diverse sexualities without defaulting to tokenism, I feel like the DA2 example is the minimal bar that's been set.

Look...I didn't mind the all-bi love interests in DA2 one bit.
I'm not against it.
But I, personally, still view certain characters as straight. That has NOTHING to do with the number of bi/gay characters in the game and EVERYTHING to do with how certain characters are in my head.

And I don't see the problem with Zevran and Leliana....I like both characters a lot, especially Zevran

[ElitePinecone]

Clonedzero wrote...

people are STILL arguing?

everyone should shut up till we find out more info cus at this point everyones just repeating arguments that happened 50 pages back lol.

Yep. No sense getting worked up over something that's 8 months away. 

If or when we hear more, then is the time to begin the arguments anew. 

At least the initial wave of "OMGZ NOT TEH GAYS IN MY GAME" has calmed down a little. With any luck they'll see something exploding or with lots of shooty noises and go investigate. 

[paptschik]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

However here's where ME's different.  The characters are tabula rasas that encourage us to fill in the gaps, so to see a romance or pairing where someone else doesn't and vice versa is normal and actually expected.  Makes none of us wrong in our interpretations since each is our own unique canon.  Just because I truely can't despite how many times I honestly tried can't see Tali or Garrus as a LI doesn't mean that thier respective sizeable fanbases are wrong, just means we're seeing things differently according to what gaps we're able to mentally fill.

I love this post.

Although I do think shipping in general is great...though, at least with something not interactive, people shouldn't ever try to see it as canon. I mean, I, personally, just love relationships in stories, ESPECIALLY in the big, epic action stories. I love good chemistry and start thinking about "what could be IF".
It's just some fans overdo it and become to aggressive, especially in Harry Potter and anime fandoms in regards to male-male relationships. I still sometimes laugh about the fact that I was once called a bigot for saying that Goku and Vegeta from Dragon Ball aren't secretly in love.

With ME the thing is, for the most part we can say how it is ourselves. There is a certain canon, but even that...I feel we're more free to ignore if we choose. I COULD say, while playing with my femshep, that Kelly is not totally bi, just a lesbian that every now and then may acknowledge a guy as attractive. May not be true, but hey, so what, it's one of my ME versions. (well, it isn't, I view Kelly as bi either way, so it was a bad example....but in terms of DA, I do view Leliana as a lesbian unless I'd try to romance her with a male Warden and despite the Fenris-Isabela thing I kinda see Fenris as more gay than bi...except in my current playthrough where my second FemHawke is romancing him)