6696 réponses à ce sujet

[paptschik]

Also, and I apologize for the double post, but this is something I wanted to bring up for a while and kept forgetting.
One of my favorite pairings in ME2 BY FAR is one we never see.
On Illium there is a Salarian with his asari stepdaughter if I am correct...they're talk and the fact that his time with his stepdaughter and his wife will be but a blip in their sheer endless life, it's so tragic and romantic, I loved it. I wish the characters would've been named, just to be able to refer to them as a specific couple.

Same thing goes for the Turian and the Quarian in the bar on eternity. They weren't tragic, more fun, but again - I loved them.

As did I love the Krogan and the Asari that eventually move to Tuchanka (i forgot their names right now)

I would like more relationships we're not involved with at all or only as a third party and here is what I'd want:
A lesbian Krogan couple.
They're Krogan women, they're probably tough as hell and they'd get busy with guys all the time just to create more kids, I'm sure, but it still has some very tragic elements to it. Even more so if only one of the two would be fertile.

I'd also like to meet the Asari that is together with the Salarian...and maybe see how things turned out for the Turian and Quarian and the Krogan and Asari.

[GameBoyish]

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

[Eromenos]

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

Think of it this way. A few straight LIs, a few bisexual LIs in one game. All the bisexual options are primarily tuned to appeal with straight culture's ideas about queer people. That is a highly unfair situation to queer gamers and to queer-friendly straight gamers. It happened in DAO and to a smaller extent in JE. Who would be content with tokenism? We see arguments all the time about "realism" that compels queerness to stay shoved into a minority corner, but is that a worthy argument? That is where anger comes from, speaking for myself at least.

Having all the LIs be bisexual precludes cop-outs. The devs think first about straight folks' quality of immersion even with queer characters. So if the queer characters and straight characters become one in the same, it would eliminate many of the cop-outs.

It does no good to try distancing/segregating straight from queer in these games. BioWare has proven itself unreliable in products that have "some straight characters with some bi characters." Those come out to be 99% straight NPCs and 1% bisexual NPCs exploited for straight culture, which insults the intelligence levels of queer/queer-friendly gamers. Until they can prove themselves capable of depicting diverse sexualities without defaulting to tokenism, I feel like the DA2 example is the minimal bar that's been set.

Look...I didn't mind the all-bi love interests in DA2 one bit.
I'm not against it.
But I, personally, still view certain characters as straight. That has NOTHING to do with the number of bi/gay characters in the game and EVERYTHING to do with how certain characters are in my head.

And I don't see the problem with Zevran and Leliana....I like both characters a lot, especially Zevran

I see what you're saying. So how do they end up being less if it turns out they're bisexual?

Not that we even know if that's going to be the case. I, for one, feel confident the ME crew will default to tokenism and cop-outs.

[paptschik]

Eromenos wrote...

I see what you're saying. So how do they end up being less if it turns out they're bisexual?

Not that we even know if that's going to be the case. I, for one, feel confident the ME crew will default to tokenism and cop-outs.

They wouldn't be less. I'd love them just as much had they been revealed as bi from the start.
I just don't like what is a fairly major change to how I view the characters (major because I care a great deal about the romances in anything, even moreso in Bioware games) so late in the game. Others would love it, because if they said from the start "this and that can be a hint, they can/should be bi", well, they now would be right. Good for them. I would be wrong and people just don't like being wrong. I wouldn't enjoy the game less and frankly, even if wrong, I'd pretend that they were still straight, they'd be straight still in my head. But to me a reveal that they're bi would be like...a new look that I personally wouldn't like, but probably only don't want because i'm so used to the old look and just don't like too much change, at least not with favorite characters.

[Sunnie]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I'm guessing a lot of stuff is planned in development and then needs to be drastically scaled back when the game gets closer to release.

If I remember correctly Kelly was just about the only remnant of a whole lot of Normandy characters that Shepard was meant to be able to interact with.

Actually, Kelly was cut and Dusty and a couple other devs worked on putting her in during their off hours, not on the clock, not getting paid for it. It's funny how her whole character and pseudo romance ended up being a helluva lot better than all but Liara's romance arc.

[lolwut666]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

Can you even sit down with that butthurt?

[jeweledleah]

Abispa wrote...


This should be an intense debate. Which returning squad member would be the best bar tender and why?

Garrus.  he has reach and flexibility and Dat turian voice.  I'm sure he could take some drink mixing lessons from that bartender in the Wards

[ElitePinecone]

Sunnie22 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I'm guessing a lot of stuff is planned in development and then needs to be drastically scaled back when the game gets closer to release.

If I remember correctly Kelly was just about the only remnant of a whole lot of Normandy characters that Shepard was meant to be able to interact with.

Actually, Kelly was cut and Dusty and a couple other devs worked on putting her in during their off hours, not on the clock, not getting paid for it. It's funny how her whole character and pseudo romance ended up being a helluva lot better than all but Liara's romance arc.

I didn't know that, thanks for clarifying.

That's true dedication. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that the spark of creativity and joy in the game industry hasn't yet been extinguished by soulless bean-counters and focus groups. :happy:

I do remember hearing also that some of the ideas for features that couldn't make it into ME2 due to time constraints are being considered for ME3, with its longer dev period. It'll be fascinating to see what they come up with. 

[Sunnie]

lolwut666 wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

Can you even sit down with that butthurt?

Why are you trolling this thread all of the sudden?

[lolwut666]

Sunnie22 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

Can you even sit down with that butthurt?

Why are you trolling this thread all of the sudden?

For the same reason that dude flew into a fit all of a sudden.

[AngelicMachinery]

Sunnie22 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

Can you even sit down with that butthurt?

Why are you trolling this thread all of the sudden?

Maybe they're hung over? 

[ElitePinecone]

Please take disagreements to private messages, all of a sudden.

[Sunnie]

lolwut666 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

TriviaAeducan wrote...

@lolwu666 You don't like the place, get out. This thread was even posted by a Moderator which means it's fine for us to discuss romances, after all like Abispa said, this thread is called
-Wider options for Romance in ME3, Including Same-Sex-

If you want to get away from romance threads don't ENTER romance threads, sheesh.

Can you even sit down with that butthurt?

Why are you trolling this thread all of the sudden?

For the same reason that dude flew into a fit all of a sudden.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you... I will point out that you started it with your rant post a page back. I'll also point out that if you were referring to more than just this thread, you didn't say that in your original rant so people here will take that post as an attack on this thread.

[lolwut666]

Sunnie22 wrote...

I'm not going to get into an argument with you... I will point out that you started it with your rant post a page back. I'll also point out that if you were referring to more than just this thread, you didn't say that in your original rant so people here will take that post as an attack on this thread.

That's because it was an "attack" on this thread as well.

Also, stop white knighting.

Either post something other than whining or just keep your **** to yourself.

[Sunnie]

lolwut666 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I'm not going to get into an argument with you... I will point out that you started it with your rant post a page back. I'll also point out that if you were referring to more than just this thread, you didn't say that in your original rant so people here will take that post as an attack on this thread.

That's because it was an "attack" on this thread as well.

Also, stop white knighting.

Either post something other than whining or just keep your **** to yourself.

Obvious troll is obvious. I was trying to reason with you, and respectfully, but I see you would rather we just consider you a troll and PM a mod to slap you around. Oh well, your choice I suppose.

[Siansonea]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

she's speaking in tongues!

[lolwut666]

@Sunnie22

Respectfully? By calling me a troll in your first post to me, and then acting like a condescending tool?

Just do whatever strokes your ego, bud. See where that gets you.

[Eromenos]

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

I see what you're saying. So how do they end up being less if it turns out they're bisexual?

Not that we even know if that's going to be the case. I, for one, feel confident the ME crew will default to tokenism and cop-outs.

They wouldn't be less. I'd love them just as much had they been revealed as bi from the start.
I just don't like what is a fairly major change to how I view the characters (major because I care a great deal about the romances in anything, even moreso in Bioware games) so late in the game. Others would love it, because if they said from the start "this and that can be a hint, they can/should be bi", well, they now would be right. Good for them. I would be wrong and people just don't like being wrong. I wouldn't enjoy the game less and frankly, even if wrong, I'd pretend that they were still straight, they'd be straight still in my head. But to me a reveal that they're bi would be like...a new look that I personally wouldn't like, but probably only don't want because i'm so used to the old look and just don't like too much change, at least not with favorite characters.

Hmm, you mentioned it yourself here...that you'd love the characters still. Isn't that enough?   The characters should also feel the same towards us as Shepard. Even further so with characters who become free to express attraction towards us, and vice-versa, but we'd still be Shepard to them if we survived. They would still be old flames, old friends, and teammates to us. "New" flames to some of us. Why not?

I'm reminded of a 20/20 story I watched during GLBT Studies. A mom was very supportive and protective towards her 6 year-old trans daughter. The kid had been "born a boy, but felt like a girl" and luckily the parents took her seriously. The mom acknowledged that she still grieves for the idea of her little boy, but she stands by her little girl because she realizes the danger of someone like her becoming marginalized. That type of danger opens the door for every other horrible thing that can happen to a person, in this case a queer person.

The mom didn't look on any of it as silent straight-bashing. There's too much silent queer-bashing to contend with first.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 mai 2011 - 04:36 .

[paptschik]

Eromenos wrote...
Hmm, you mentioned it yourself here...that you'd love the characters still. Isn't that enough?  

In theory it is.
But if the characters in question remain straight I'll still feel happy and in a way, relieved.

[Sunnie]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Sunnie22

Respectfully? By calling me a troll in your first post to me, and then acting like a condescending tool?

Just do whatever strokes your ego, bud. See where that gets you.

Well, yes, I was being respectful. I didn't call you a troll, I called out what you did as trolling. I also didn't start using profanity and calling you names, or get all upset and get a nasty attitude.

My apologies to the thread for being OT, I'll leave this to the powers that be.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 21 mai 2011 - 04:38 .

[Sunnie]

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, c'est toujours le cas, à travers l'histoire.

[Maugrim]

Sunnie22 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

@Sunnie22

Respectfully? By calling me a troll in your first post to me, and then acting like a condescending tool?

Just do whatever strokes your ego, bud. See where that gets you.

Well, yes, I was being respectful. I didn't call you a troll, I called out what you did as trolling. I also didn't start using profanity and calling you names, or get all upset and get a nasty attitude.

My apologies to the thread for being OT, I'll leave this to the powers that be.

Just make sure you report him as I did a half hour ago.  He's already been banned once so...

[M-Sinistrari]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

she's speaking in tongues!

Well, some have been saying that the rapture is supposed to happen on the 21st.

[AngelicMachinery]

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Hmm, you mentioned it yourself here...that you'd love the characters still. Isn't that enough?  

In theory it is.
But if the characters in question remain straight I'll still feel happy and in a way, relieved.

I still can't quite get my head around how the characters will change really.  It may just be my own opinions and experince but sexuality isn't one defining aspect.  It's just who you find sexually attractive nothing more,  so,  I don't quite understand how it will harm the characters.  Even some bisexuals have a gender preference.  

The characters won't change,  particularly if they have all romance options as passive.  Which I believe they will be, as no one wants more Anders rage.  The core of your favorite characters aren't going to change and they aren't got to act stereotypically gay and if they do I for one will be one of the first to complain.  I don't want the characters to lose their personas,  and I don't think anyone else does.