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[Canadish]

So long as I can turn people down nicely, then I'm all for it.
The only reason Anders pissed me off in DA2 was because Hawke could only say "YES" or get all aggressive about it. So really, it was the writer, rather then the character of Anders.

[Eromenos]

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Hmm, you mentioned it yourself here...that you'd love the characters still. Isn't that enough?  

In theory it is.
But if the characters in question remain straight I'll still feel happy and in a way, relieved.

What if Kaidan and/or Ashley get revealed as bisexual on the forums, but not in ME3 itself unless we...broach interest? Would it then bother you, knowing of a "secret" they've kept even if they're closeted during the game and go on with you as before?

I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around it. I'm more used to the idea that I might end up with another man who doesn't have to be exclusively gay like me, so long as I'm his #1 and he's my #1. If he were bi, I would still consider myself gay. We would be performing a functionally gay-relationship but we would still maintain our distinct sexualities. So from my POV, you would still be straight if your Kaidan or Ashley is bi. Commander Shepard and beloved reunited, in your case. Commander Shepard reunited with beloved, also in my case. ;)

If that doesn't help, something-something tells me that all the minor and ambient NPCs in the game-world will continue to express heterosexuality in the majority, with scant depictions of queerness relegated to asari cop-outs as usual. Granted these are not the same as our LIs. But consider if the LIs are closety while the general atmosphere continually expresses heteronormativity. Really, how does that change too much for straight folks who like their Kaidan/Ashley the way they were? I do not think that having all-bisexual squadmates undermines a sexual hierarchy half as much as we might fear/want.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 mai 2011 - 05:06 .

[JediMB]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The characters won't change,  particularly if they have all romance options as passive.  Which I believe they will be, as no one wants more Anders rage.

Well, I don't want people raging, but I sure would like it if a few characters would be a bit less passive when it comes to their (potential) love life.

[AngelicMachinery]

Luna Siwora wrote...

As I said before, I am sure that the lines in ME3 will differ from the lines from DA2; mostly because, as being a completely different Universe, I believe that people in the ME3 world tend to be more open-minded.

Not really,  the people in Thedas are rather open minded too different sexualities.  The human noble brother in particular seems quite happy with whomever your choose to bed.

[AngelicMachinery]

JediMB wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The characters won't change,  particularly if they have all romance options as passive.  Which I believe they will be, as no one wants more Anders rage.

Well, I don't want people raging, but I sure would like it if a few characters would be a bit less passive when it comes to their (potential) love life.

I wouldn't mind it either,  but,  I'm doubting that we'll be seeing it.

[jeweledleah]

Eromenos wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Hmm, you mentioned it yourself here...that you'd love the characters still. Isn't that enough?  

In theory it is.
But if the characters in question remain straight I'll still feel happy and in a way, relieved.

What if Kaidan and/or Ashley get revealed as bisexual on the forums, but not in ME3 itself unless we...broach interest? Would it then bother you, knowing of a "secret" they've kept even if they're closeted during the game and go on with you as before?

I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around it. I'm more used to the idea that I might end up with another man who doesn't have to be exclusively gay like me, so long as I'm his #1 and he's my #1. If he were bi, I would still consider myself gay. We would be performing a functionally gay-relationship but we would still maintain our distinct sexualities. So from my POV, you would still be straight if your Kaidan or Ashley is bi. Commander Shepard and beloved reunited, in your case. Commander Shepard reunited with beloved, also in my case. ;)

If that doesn't help, something-something tells me that all the minor and ambient NPCs in the game-world will continue to express heterosexuality in the majority, with scant depictions of queerness relegated to asari cop-outs as usual. Granted these are not the same as our LIs. But consider if the LIs are closety while the general atmosphere expresses heteronormativity. I do not think that having all-bisexual squadmates undermines a sexual hierarchy half as much as we might fear/want.

depends on how its handled.  I mentioned it before on this thread, but in ME1 Kaidan and Ash are in love with oposite sex Shepard with the slightest encouragement (or no encouragement at all, depending on how you see it)  they get enfatuated starting with Eden prime and from then on feelings only get stronger.  all you have to do is be nice to them. but they don't feel the same way about same sex Shepard - there's nothing but friendship and/or respect there.  so if they show it as them hiding those feelings for so long, even though I have seen them as completely incapable of hiding their atraction even despite the regs?  to me that would be changing their character.  but if its handled as if your Shepard was pining and just now has a choice to see if he/she can get them to reciprocate (or even if the Shepard just now sees them as more then just a friend and relationship starts from there) - then it won't change their character one bit, only some of the Shepards relationship with them

to quote a tweet from Casey Hudson

BablAqUA
Patrik Mysterious

@CaseyDHudson Is Retribution canon? Did it happened if Anderson is councilor and I destroyed collectors base?

23 hours ago

in reply to ↑



@CaseyDHudson
Casey Hudson
.@BablAqUA Yes, we design all of our cross-media stories so they don't trample on whatever choices you might have made in the games.

all I personaly want is that they treat whatever character expansion they do in the same way.  I want these characters and their behaviour to make sense concidering all the possible ME universes, not just each individual one.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 mai 2011 - 05:11 .

[Erani]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, c'est toujours le cas, à travers l'histoire.

Je suis tout à fait d'accord.
The LIs need to get some tips from Kelly. I want my Garrus lap dance, woot!

[AngelicMachinery]

Erani wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, c'est toujours le cas, à travers l'histoire.

Je suis tout à fait d'accord.
The LIs need to get some tips from Kelly. I want my Garrus lap dance, woot!

I've seen Garrus dance...  I believe he took lessons from Shepherd.

[Siansonea]

Erani wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, c'est toujours le cas, à travers l'histoire.

Je suis tout à fait d'accord.
The LIs need to get some tips from Kelly. I want my Garrus lap dance, woot!

Somebody needs to mod it so that Garrus does the Kelly dance. That would be hee-larious.

[paptschik]

Eromenos wrote...

What if Kaidan and/or Ashley get revealed as bisexual on the forums, but not in ME3 itself unless we...broach interest? Would it then bother you, knowing of a "secret" they've kept even if they're closeted during the game and go on with you as before?

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now. It's a preference issue, it's not "out of principle I will refuse gay/bi characters".

Shepards sexuality doesn't matter at all. My renegade FemShep IS a lesbian, just like how my first two Wardens (male and female) were bi and my first FemHawke was a lesbian and my current FemHawke is bi with an elf-fetish and in love with Fenris. Shepard changes whenever I start a new game anyway.

And I don't mind gay/bi NPCs at all. Hell, a bit earlier I demanded lesbian Kragon women for the sake of drama!

[paptschik]

Luna Siwora wrote...

Canadish wrote...

So long as I can turn people down nicely, then I'm all for it.
The only reason Anders pissed me off in DA2 was because Hawke could only say "YES" or get all aggressive about it. So really, it was the writer, rather then the character of Anders.

Yes. A sudden attack to the Companion is wrong. It depends more on the way that the scene was written than on character itself... 

As I said before, I am sure that the lines in ME3 will differ from the lines from DA2; mostly because, as being a completely different Universe, I believe that people in the ME3 world tend to be more open-minded.

I actually always thought the DA world was incredibly open minded...

[Sunnie]

Siansonea II wrote...

Erani wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Oui, c'est toujours le cas, à travers l'histoire.

Je suis tout à fait d'accord.
The LIs need to get some tips from Kelly. I want my Garrus lap dance, woot!

Somebody needs to mod it so that Garrus does the Kelly dance. That would be hee-larious.

Garrus dancing against male!Sheps cabin wall? lol! Ya that would be pretty epic!

[Eromenos]

jeweledleah wrote...

depends on how its handled.  I mentioned it before on this thread, but in ME1 Kaidan and Ash are in love with oposite sex Shepard with the slightest encouragement (or no encouragement at all, depending on how you see it)  they get enfatuated starting with Eden prime and from then on feelings only get stronger.  all you have to do is be nice to them. but they don't feel the same way about same sex Shepard - there's nothing but friendship and/or respect there.  so if they show it as them hiding those feelings for so long, even though I have seen them as completely incapable of hiding their atraction even despite the regs?  to me that would be changing their character.  but if its handled as if your Shepard was pining and just now has a choice to see if he/she can get them to reciprocate (or even if the Shepard just now sees them as more then just a friend and relationship starts from there) - then it won't change their character one bit, only some of the Shepards relationship with them

all I personaly want is that they treat whatever character expansion they do in the same way.  I want these characters and their behaviour to make sense concidering all the possible ME universes, not just each individual one.

What you're proposing is forced-narrative on Shepard, who we're supposed to have more control over than the NPCs. What you're proposing is a PSA for uncomfortable segments of straight people who need some catering tossed at them to show how it's "ok" for Shepard to change. i.e., a pitiful queer stereotype stuck in a heteronormative world that would dishonorably discharge him for his feelings, at least when ME was first developed.

How about the queer POV? For actual queer gamers, rather than heterocentrism that supposedly "helps" by making mainstream culture more "accepting?" More accepting of someone pitiful, which is a BS way to frame some asinine rite I'm tired of seeing. We need to be well past coming-out.

Do not play so closely with BioWare's homophobic proprietary reasoning. Some folk's Shepards are straight. My Shepard is gay. Those people had the luxury of BioWare playing up to their wants. I did not get those luxuries or even respect, but that does not mean I never maintained my Shepard the way I wanted him to be, within the confines of diminished choices. Those of us who are queer, queer-friendly, or otherwise play Shepard as a gay commander who likes same-sex humans, we hold little stock in the BS of the Eden Prime scenario. That was unfavorable forced-narrative that started a nauseating pattern of trying to compel every gamer to be someone we might not necessarily want to be, which is a hypocritical departure from Hudson's original spiels about our choices shaping the universe, etc.

Deconstruct the Eden Prime scenario. So what if BioWare shipped ME the way it was? I will not give credit to their cop-out.

Modifié par Eromenos, 21 mai 2011 - 05:43 .

[paptschik]

Siansonea II wrote...

Somebody needs to mod it so that Garrus does the Kelly dance. That would be hee-larious.

Just the other day I realized how poor Garrus is...out of all the love interests he is the only one without a nice ass.
Okay, so I'm not 100% sure if we can even tell with Jack, but beyond that...his Turian physique just doesn't allow his rear to be as nice as the others. Poor guy.

Tali on the other hand scores some free points in the ass-department just because she's a Quarian.

Question, are male Quarian behinds just as magical? I can't remember right now, when I think about male Quarian I get too distracted by how awesome Kal'Reegar is.

[AngelicMachinery]

paptschik wrote...

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now..

You see I don't really understand this kind of reasoning,  why is the straightness of these three character more important than any other character on the Normandy.  Could you perhaps go into why you feel this way, outside of just "It's how I feel?"

[jeweledleah]

Eromenos wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

depends on how its handled.  I mentioned it before on this thread, but in ME1 Kaidan and Ash are in love with oposite sex Shepard with the slightest encouragement (or no encouragement at all, depending on how you see it)  they get enfatuated starting with Eden prime and from then on feelings only get stronger.  all you have to do is be nice to them. but they don't feel the same way about same sex Shepard - there's nothing but friendship and/or respect there.  so if they show it as them hiding those feelings for so long, even though I have seen them as completely incapable of hiding their atraction even despite the regs?  to me that would be changing their character.  but if its handled as if your Shepard was pining and just now has a choice to see if he/she can get them to reciprocate (or even if the Shepard just now sees them as more then just a friend and relationship starts from there) - then it won't change their character one bit, only some of the Shepards relationship with them

all I personaly want is that they treat whatever character expansion they do in the same way.  I want these characters and their behaviour to make sense concidering all the possible ME universes, not just each individual one.

What you're proposing is forced-narrative on Shepard, who we're supposed to have more control over than the NPCs. What you're proposing is a PSA for uncomfortable segments of straight people who need some catering tossed at them to show how it's "ok" for Shepard to change. i.e., a pitiful queer stereotype stuck in a heteronormative world that would dishonorably discharge him for his feelings, at least when ME was first developed.

How about the queer POV? For actual queer gamers, not something that's bent to make mainstream culture more "accepting?"

Do not play so closely with BioWare's homophobic proprietary reasoning. Your Shepard is straight. My Shepard is gay. You had the luxury of BioWare playing up to your wants. I did not get those luxuries or even respect, but that does not mean I never maintained my Shepard the way I wanted him to be, within the confines of diminished choices. Those of us who are queer, queer-friendly, or otherwise play Shepard as a gay commander who likes same-sex humans, we hold little stock in the BS of the Eden Prime scenario. That was unfavorable forced-narrative that started a nauseating pattern of trying to compel every gamer to be someone we might not necessarily want to be, which is a hypocritical departure from Hudson's original spiels about our choices shaping the universe, etc.

Deconstruct the Eden Prime scenario. So what if BioWare shipped ME the way it was? I will not give credit to their cop-out.

sigh.

you didn't get my point at all.

nowhere did I say that you Shepard wasn't gay.  nowhere did I say that Kaidan and Ash were straight.

all I said is that they showed NO atraction to same sex Shepard in ME1.  creating a setup where they were hiding that atraction changes their personality.  I'm not the one who wants to shape the npc's.  you are.

[paptschik]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now..

You see I don't really understand this kind of reasoning,  why is the straightness of these three character more important than any other character on the Normandy.  Could you perhaps go into why you feel this way, outside of just "It's how I feel?"

It's more important for those characters because they're my favorites. It would also bother my if other favorites like Kelly or Zevran would suddenly be straight or gay-only.
With characters I simply don't care as much about, no matter how much I like them, it is easier for me to go "huh...ok, good for everyone that wanted this".
I just have gained a certain point of view and do not like to be told that "sorry, your canon is now officially incorrect".

[Sunnie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now..

You see I don't really understand this kind of reasoning,  why is the straightness of these three character more important than any other character on the Normandy.  Could you perhaps go into why you feel this way, outside of just "It's how I feel?"

And I'll go one further.. Tali goes as far as wanting to and offering to link suits with Fem!Shep, gets all flustered, and was originally intended to be an LI for Fem!Shep. When I first played ME2, I got the very distinct impression Tali was wanting a romantic relationship with my Shepard.

[paptschik]

Sunnie22 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

paptschik wrote...

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now..

You see I don't really understand this kind of reasoning,  why is the straightness of these three character more important than any other character on the Normandy.  Could you perhaps go into why you feel this way, outside of just "It's how I feel?"

And I'll go one further.. Tali goes as far as wanting to and offering to link suits with Fem!Shep, gets all flustered, and was originally intended to be an LI for Fem!Shep. When I first played ME2, I got the very distinct impression Tali was wanting a romantic relationship with my Shepard.

Which is good for you. I don't say anything against that and I don't see any problem with wanting it.
And if Tali had been bi from the start, I'd probably have no problem with this anyway. Hell, if I had known from the start, that this was the intention, I probably wouldn't have the issue. But I got into the game not knowing that.

[Eromenos]

paptschik wrote...

Eromenos wrote...

What if Kaidan and/or Ashley get revealed as bisexual on the forums, but not in ME3 itself unless we...broach interest? Would it then bother you, knowing of a "secret" they've kept even if they're closeted during the game and go on with you as before?

Honestly, I don't even care about Ashley and Kaiden and could see it, going from some points brought up here. Personally I'd only hope for Garrus, Tali and Joker to be straight...just because that's how I see them by now. It's a preference issue, it's not "out of principle I will refuse gay/bi characters".

Shepards sexuality doesn't matter at all. My renegade FemShep IS a lesbian, just like how my first two Wardens (male and female) were bi and my first FemHawke was a lesbian and my current FemHawke is bi with an elf-fetish and in love with Fenris. Shepard changes whenever I start a new game anyway.

And I don't mind gay/bi NPCs at all. Hell, a bit earlier I demanded lesbian Kragon women for the sake of drama!

Gotcha.

Hmm, I have no interest in those characters myself. Garrus has a sexy voice, but that's the extent of my sexual feelings for him.

If we apply what I said about Kaidan or Ashley onto these 3...Garrus/Joker/Tali...would it still bug you? They'd be bi, yet "str8-acting." Just knowing that they're bi would be kind of a letdown?